Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Valmy]

Any time Labour wants to take the situation seriously and actually try to appeal to their supporters would be great.

[Sheilbh]

After collapse of the recent case against alleged spies for China (because the government wouldn't testify that China was hostile), three arrested today for spying for China. Very few details at this point but Guardian reporting one is the partner of a sitting government MP.

Edit: And one of the other three is partner of a former Labour MP.

[mongers]

The way the Brewdog employees,  many young people, have been treated is disgusting.

[Sheilbh]

The way the Brewdog employees,  many young people, have been treated is disgusting.

Knew someone who worked there when they were still new and exciting about 15 years ago and just launching bars. From that experience it was already absolutely toxic and the owners were just dicks in every way and that behaviour from the leadership people flowed down. Not surprised that continued especially as they massively expanded and then collapsed.

Also they had a crowdfunder-y/community side with "equity for punks" so lots of people who just liked their beer put some money in and will have lost it all.

[mongers]

The way the Brewdog employees,  many young people, have been treated is disgusting.

Knew someone who worked there when they were still new and exciting about 15 years ago and just launching bars. From that experience it was already absolutely toxic and the owners were just dicks in every way and that behaviour from the leadership people flowed down. Not surprised that continued especially as they massively expanded and then collapsed.
..snip...

Interesting, yet they got away with it and for yearswere the darlings of domestic business news coverage; 1st class PR?

[garbon]

The way the Brewdog employees,  many young people, have been treated is disgusting.

Knew someone who worked there when they were still new and exciting about 15 years ago and just launching bars. From that experience it was already absolutely toxic and the owners were just dicks in every way and that behaviour from the leadership people flowed down. Not surprised that continued especially as they massively expanded and then collapsed.
..snip...

Interesting, yet they got away with it and for yearswere the darlings of domestic business news coverage; 1st class PR?

Since post COVID they have been struggling as the bad PR was out. One of the toxic co-founders had to step down in 2024. They also had already shredded commitment to living wage they had pledged.

I think they also didn't properly know how to scale. Where I worked in central London had 3 different BrewDog locations within a 15 minute walk. That was silly.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah there was an open letter from employees about the culture of fear etc.

Totally agree on scaling - they were one of those companies that I think just didn't have focus. On the other hand it is really bad out there for the hospitality sector and if you massively expanded pre-pandemic I think chances are you are going to be struggling. Revolution went into administration recenty too, closing 20 bars with 500 staff. It's something this government's choices in particular has really hurt - Angela Rayner's called for a different approach for hospitality (otoh some suggestion it might be a deliberate strategy as Treasury Minister Torsten Bell argued, when he was head of the Resolution Foundation, for the need to increase business costs to reduce the size of low-productivity, low-pay sectors like hospitality to help rebalance the economy).

I think they definitely had good PR for a while, but also were just on the zeitgeist a bit. They were the first big British version of the American craft beer revolution. It reminds me a bit of American Apparel - similarly problematic founder, lots of ethical promises with a dreadful workplace, very zeitgeisty, massive expansion and eventual collapse.

[Sheilbh]

Another one (Including Restore and Your Party which many polls don't yet - not sure if they were prompted on the list in which case those numbers are likely higher than otherwise):


Reports today that Labour are concerned could lose as many as 600 council seats in London. Plus bad results in other regions plus Scotland and Wales and it would be very very bad.

I think Labour MPs really should have moved against Starmer in autumn or January. It might not have saved much but Starmer is hated. Results like that would hugely damage the local party infrastructure of Labour across the country - a huge part of being a political party capable of campaigning is having local councillors who are the most reliable, committed, rain-or-shine activists.

(Out of interest I put those numbers into Electoral Calculus and on that swing the Greens would win my constituency and basically every other constituency in this area. I'll probably be voting for them at the local elections - and at this rate in the general election too - despite the many issues with them )

Edit: Just double-checked and it would be a total sweep for the Greens in Lewisham and Southwark

[Valmy]

I think Labour MPs really should have moved against Starmer in autumn or January. It might not have saved much but Starmer is hated. Results like that would hugely damage the local party infrastructure of Labour across the country - a huge part of being a political party capable of campaigning is having local councillors who are the most reliable, committed, rain-or-shine activists.

That would require a party that understands the stakes, comprehends the moment, and takes action when necessary but that is not the incompetent out of touch complacency that reigns supreme in all establishment parties these days. Just fiddle while Rome burns around you, maybe while sprinkling in a few moments of breathtaking arrogance.

[garbon]

I think Labour MPs really should have moved against Starmer in autumn or January. It might not have saved much but Starmer is hated. Results like that would hugely damage the local party infrastructure of Labour across the country - a huge part of being a political party capable of campaigning is having local councillors who are the most reliable, committed, rain-or-shine activists.

That would require a party that understands the stakes, comprehends the moment, and takes action when necessary but that is not the incompetent out of touch complacency that reigns supreme in all establishment parties these days. Just fiddle while Rome burns around you, maybe while sprinkling in a few moments of breathtaking arrogance.

I would put more of the blame on Starmer though. His arrogance is that which appears to know no bounds.

[Sheilbh]

I would put more of the blame on Starmer though. His arrogance is that which appears to know no bounds.

Yeah. I think it's really difficult to overstate how disliked Starmer is - and I think it is largely justified.

I remember there was a piece in the FT where they sat in on some focus groups and noted that people immediately, spontaneously would say Starmer was a liar who only said what he thought he needed to say to get elected and that Reeves is incompetent and uncaring. The next paragraph had another commentator noting that Starmer's just quite dull and inoffensive and it's weird how much he's hated

I don't think it's fiddling while Rome burns, so much as "dissolve the people and elect another".