The Off Topic Topic

[Zanza]

Demographic collapse in Europe continues: first time less births in the EU than in the US. About 3.55 to 3.62 million. Net migration into the EU is also lower.



This will soon overburden our retirement systems and decrease economic output as the largest generations are now leaving the job market.

China has about 9.5 million births, down from a peak of 25 million in 1985. India has about 25 million births.

[Josquius]

Stop making it so damn hard to have kids and we will do more.

[Tamas]

Stop making it so damn hard to have kids and we will do more.

Indeed.


Also we used to panic about world overpopulation, now it's underpopulation. I am going to take the average of this too which means we are going to be fine.

[Valmy]

As bad as underpopulation potentially might be, it is vastly preferable to the population bomb we all thought we were sitting on.

[Valmy]

Stop making it so damn hard to have kids and we will do more.

And you have free college and parental leave and health care and all that.

[Sheilbh]

China has about 9.5 million births, down from a peak of 25 million in 1985. India has about 25 million births.

Total fertility rate in India is below 2. It's at 0.85 in Thailand (which has per capita GDP of under $8,000). Similar declines all over Latin America and rapid declines in Africa (from a higher base).

It's really extraordinary. As I said in the other thread my basic theory is female literacy and access to birth control.  But it's incredible how consistent it is across all sorts of societies.

[Valmy]

Yep. And you would think this would completely derail the right wing's obsession about being replaced by different looking people. Clearly the great white nation will be replaced by...empty space.

But instead they seem more paranoid than ever.

[Josquius]

Yep. And you would think this would completely derail the right wing's obsession about being replaced by different looking people. Clearly the great white nation will be replaced by...empty space.

But instead they seem more paranoid than ever.

They're usually quite ignorant of most of the world following similar trends though being a few years behind.

There are some countries out there still high. Largely the poorer countries in Africa. But Nigeria too I recall reading is a worry that bucks trends for various chauvinistic cultural reasons.

[Sheilbh]

Yep. And you would think this would completely derail the right wing's obsession about being replaced by different looking people. Clearly the great white nation will be replaced by...empty space.

But instead they seem more paranoid than ever.

I don't see why that would follow.

From what I can see they're flirting with some very, very weird and dodgy birthrate/race science stuff that is moving way beyond just the fringes.

Which is frustrating because I think encouraging more kids is something we should want to do, obviously without the weird trad/race science stuff. But because of that and stuff like Musk's weirdness on this, it's difficult to really talk about.

[Zanza]

@Valmy: They will try to outlaw the pill in the United States or at least in red states next to get more children again. See pro natalists like Musk.

[Valmy]

@Valmy: They will try to outlaw the pill in the United States or at least in red states next to get more children again. See pro natalists like Musk.

Too late man. People just aren't having sex anymore. It's weird.

Yeah but no doubt about that. There will be an attack on any kind of family planning at some point in right wing areas.

[Sheilbh]

I do think 99% of the young people aren't fucking/drinking/socialising is just the distortion of a generation that came up during covid times and are only just starting to have disposable income of their own. So while most stats about Zoomers are alarming to say the least it does look like on lots of these ones they are reverting to the normal given their income/housing situations.

[Valmy]

I do think 99% of the young people aren't fucking/drinking/socialising is just the distortion of a generation that came up during covid times and are only just starting to have disposable income of their own. So while most stats about Zoomers are alarming to say the least it does look like on lots of these ones they are reverting to the normal given their income/housing situations.

Well I hope so. A childless future would be bad enough, but a sexless one? Truly dystopian.

[Josquius]

I suspect it's more than just covid.
As said before, Japan isn't weird, it's just ahead of the trend.
A lack of interest in human on human sex dates back some way there.

[Valmy]

But because of that and stuff like Musk's weirdness on this, it's difficult to really talk about.

I don't actually think it is difficult. If you address the actual problems that are causing it. People not having kids is a symptom of a disease that must be treated.

And beyond those economic issues, you also have to deal with doomerism around things like climate. If you demonstrate that adults are actually in charge who are serious about solving problems, you would have less anti-natalism around in general I think,