Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Children are starving, Raz.

Yeah but they're the wrong kind of children for him to care.

I wonder how the reactions would be if we race swapped them.

By you? Pretty easy to guess.

If Palestinians were deliberating starving out Israelis, indiscriminately killing and arresting civilians I'd feel the same way I do now about Israel doing it. Same way I thought the oct 7 attacks were deplorable. Same way I denounce when Hamas launches missiles. I don't sit there shrugging it off with the feeling like they deserve it, or justifying it because they all believe in blood libel something something. I don't feel I can say the same about you.

See, you misunderstand me.  For me it is not about race, but for the antizionists it is, they will tell you.  They are fighting "white supremacy".  It's about protecting brown people.  If the people dying were not brown, or the people fighting them were not perceived as white (really they look pretty much the same), they would not care. In fact, I have a feeling most of the antizionists would be favorably inclined toward it.

[Admiral Yi]

Did the Turks seek to kill every Armenian on Earth? Not sure the Armenian genocide would qualify under this definition.

The Nazis were still tinkering with the Madagascar idea into 1942 so was there no Nazi genocide of the Jews in 1941?

This definition seems too restrictive.

The Turks did not try to kill every Armenian on Earth.  I was never crazy about that label.

The Wannsee conference decided on the final solution on 1/20/42.

The meaning is in the word.  Geno meaning race or tribe and cide meaning to kill.  You commit homocide when you kill a person, not when you undermine his culture and institutions.  Same with regicide, patricide, etc.

[Razgovory]

Children are starving, Raz.

Then the Gazans should do what the Germans did, surrender.  Put down all their weapons and surrender.

You can blame Hamas for a lot of things, not this one though.

For what, not surrendering?  Why can't we expect the basic human decency that... <checks notes> fucking Nazis displayed.  Of course, they will not surrender, why should they?  They know that expending the lives of children will save their lives.  They do it because the world rewards them for it.  It works.  And they will continue to do so long as the world rewards them for it.

[Razgovory]

Is it outside he civilized bounds though? 

Yes.

The cause of people who would kill me and drag my body through the streets is no longer one I am interested in championing. 

I don't think that's a cause you should ever have championed 

Then I guess most of the countries of the world are uncivilized.

[Syt]

Did the Turks seek to kill every Armenian on Earth? Not sure the Armenian genocide would qualify under this definition.

The Nazis were still tinkering with the Madagascar idea into 1942 so was there no Nazi genocide of the Jews in 1941?

This definition seems too restrictive.

The Turks did not try to kill every Armenian on Earth.  I was never crazy about that label.

The Wannsee conference decided on the final solution on 1/20/42.

The meaning is in the word.  Geno meaning race or tribe and cide meaning to kill.  You commit homocide when you kill a person, not when you undermine his culture and institutions.  Same with regicide, patricide, etc.

By that definition, if Germany said, "We'll kill all Jews, except David and Ra hel over there, they're cool," it wouldn't be a genocide, because they didn't aim to kill all of them? Or of they decided to spare one village or town?

Come to think of it, the Nuremberg Trials should have been about attempted genocide, since clearly Germany did not kill all Jews.

[Razgovory]

Do we really want a definition of genocide that includes the Germans as victims?

[Zoupa]

Children are starving, Raz.

Then the Gazans should do what the Germans did, surrender.  Put down all their weapons and surrender.

You can blame Hamas for a lot of things, not this one though.

For what, not surrendering?  Why can't we expect the basic human decency that... <checks notes> fucking Nazis displayed.  Of course, they will not surrender, why should they?  They know that expending the lives of children will save their lives.  They do it because the world rewards them for it.  It works.  And they will continue to do so long as the world rewards them for it.

Uh what? What does Hamas not surrendering and the IDF targeting food deliveries have to do with each other?

Are you saying the IDF can deny civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering?

[Norgy]

A pertinent question is how much more surrendering Hamas can do. Are there even members left? 

[Zoupa]

Hamas must have been hidden in a lot of houses.

[Razgovory]

A pertinent question is how much more surrendering Hamas can do. Are there even members left? 

When they had a ceasefire, they all scurried out wearing their ninja outfits.  So there are plenty of them left alive.

[Razgovory]

Children are starving, Raz.

Then the Gazans should do what the Germans did, surrender.  Put down all their weapons and surrender.

You can blame Hamas for a lot of things, not this one though.

For what, not surrendering?  Why can't we expect the basic human decency that... <checks notes> fucking Nazis displayed.  Of course, they will not surrender, why should they?  They know that expending the lives of children will save their lives.  They do it because the world rewards them for it.  It works.  And they will continue to do so long as the world rewards them for it.

Uh what? What does Hamas not surrendering and the IDF targeting food deliveries have to do with each other?

Are you saying the IDF can deny civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering?

Uh, we did that.  To the Germans and the Japanese.  I don't know of any occasion where US, British or Commonwealth forces stopped a battle in Germany so they could give enemy civilians food.  Surrender then eat.  I don't think it's a big ask to stop trying to actively kill someone before they give you food.  

[Zoupa]

The question isn't "did we do that". The question is are you ok with the IDF denying civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering.

(btw it's a war crime, but we know you don't care about these pesky terms).

[Gups]

Raz assumes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that every resident of Gaza, man, woman or child, is a member of Hamas. That's the only way to justify this.

[Admiral Yi]

By that definition, if Germany said, "We'll kill all Jews, except David and Ra hel over there, they're cool," it wouldn't be a genocide, because they didn't aim to kill all of them? Or of they decided to spare one village or town?

If the Israelis announce they will only leave two Palestinians alive, I will concede the point.

[Josquius]

Children are starving, Raz.

Then the Gazans should do what the Germans did, surrender.  Put down all their weapons and surrender.

You can blame Hamas for a lot of things, not this one though.

For what, not surrendering?  Why can't we expect the basic human decency that... <checks notes> fucking Nazis displayed.  Of course, they will not surrender, why should they?  They know that expending the lives of children will save their lives.  They do it because the world rewards them for it.  It works.  And they will continue to do so long as the world rewards them for it.

Uh what? What does Hamas not surrendering and the IDF targeting food deliveries have to do with each other?

Are you saying the IDF can deny civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering?

Uh, we did that.  To the Germans and the Japanese.  I don't know of any occasion where US, British or Commonwealth forces stopped a battle in Germany so they could give enemy civilians food.  Surrender then eat.  I don't think it's a big ask to stop trying to actively kill someone before they give you food. 

The Palestinians have surrendered.
Israel is doing whatever the fuck it wants in their territory.
They're following the rules and going to Israels food distribution centres at random times despite the liklihood of getting shot.
I don't see what more compliance is possible from them.

Comparing WW2 battles to Israels many months long kicking of Gaza is daft.