Israel-Hamas War 2023

[crazy canuck]

Add ethnic cleansing to genocide if the right wing ministers in the current Israeli government prevail.

Bezalel Smotrich, the far-right finance minister of Israel, said Tuesday that the country was "closer than ever" to rebuilding Jewish settlements in Gaza that were evacuated 20 years ago, adding that the war there had created the opportunity to expand them even further.

Mr. Smotrich's remarks came soon after the Netherlands announced it was barring him and another far-right government minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, from entering the country in an effort to pressure Israel into stopping the 21-month war that has devastated Gaza.

The Palestinian enclave is now in the grips of a dire hunger crisis that has brought international outrage.

Both Mr. Smotrich and Mr. Ben-Gvir have called for the war to continue. They want "voluntary" migration of Gaza's population of two million Palestinians, a measure that international legal experts have said would amount to ethnic cleansing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/29/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-jewish-resettlement.html?unlocked_article_code=1.aE8.eBbj.Je3tTj-QxwwL&smid=url-share

[Admiral Yi]

It absolutely is.
See that WW2 example earlier.
It doesn't matter there's still elements of your enemy fighting on. You look after civilians in occupied territory.

And you keep fighting the army that hasn't surrendered.

[crazy canuck]

It absolutely is.
See that WW2 example earlier.
It doesn't matter there's still elements of your enemy fighting on. You look after civilians in occupied territory.

And you keep fighting the army that hasn't surrendered.

The army, not the civilians.  I am not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[Razgovory]

The short history of whataboutism is that it was a Soviet propaganda tool.
USA: Your human rights situation is less than stellar
Soviets: But what about all the lynchings in the south of your United States?

There is enough whataboutism for a whataboutism festival these days too.

Understanding that pointing out a wrong in defence of a wrong is a long, mental process. But I wish Raz well and the best of luck.

But it's not.  It's selective outrage.  This thing that we do is wrong if you do it because of your identity.  Margery Taylor Greene is now calling it genocide, so congrats on your new ally.

[Razgovory]

It absolutely is.
See that WW2 example earlier.
It doesn't matter there's still elements of your enemy fighting on. You look after civilians in occupied territory.

And you keep fighting the army that hasn't surrendered.

The army, not the civilians.  I am not sure why this is so hard to understand.

There are penalties to not wearing a uniform.  Fighting without one is a war crime.  But nobody is really interested in enforcing that, are they?

[crazy canuck]

I am pretty sure the babies who are dying from malnutrition are non combatants.  But you and Yi know that and choose to be complicit.

[Zoupa]

The question isn't "did we do that". The question is are you ok with the IDF denying civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering.

(btw it's a war crime, but we know you don't care about these pesky terms).

Still waiting, Raz.

[Razgovory]

I am pretty sure the babies who are dying from malnutrition are non combatants.  But you and Yi know that and choose to be complicit.

Yi and I are just as complicit in their deaths as you are in the deaths of babies in Yemen.

[Razgovory]

The question isn't "did we do that". The question is are you ok with the IDF denying civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering.

(btw it's a war crime, but we know you don't care about these pesky terms).

Still waiting, Raz.

I believe that blockades are legitimate, as do you.  You said it about Gaza, I quoted you a few pages back.  Hell, you endorsed Morganthau plan for Germany after the war.  A plan that entailed the starving of millions.  If we could really cut off food imports to Russia and force them out of the Ukraine, would you do it?  Of course you would.

[Josquius]

The question isn't "did we do that". The question is are you ok with the IDF denying civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering.

(btw it's a war crime, but we know you don't care about these pesky terms).

Still waiting, Raz.

I believe that blockades are legitimate, as do you.  You said it about Gaza, I quoted you a few pages back.  Hell, you endorsed Morganthau plan for Germany after the war.  A plan that entailed the starving of millions.  If we could really cut off food imports to Russia and force them out of the Ukraine, would you do it?  Of course you would.

Ignoring the silliness of the theoretical here, that whataboutism isn't really comparable.

What you have in Gaza isn't Israel using starvation as a tool to break the front line, they've shattered the front line, they've won, they occupy the lot and have full control over life and death there.

A comparable situation for Ukraine - Russia would be Russia has completely folded and Ukraine occupies the whole country, is regularly demolishing it's cities and has destroyed the bulk of its housing and infrastructure already. But.... There's still some of putins inner circle and some supporters hiding somewhere, so screw all Russians.

The deliberate starvation of civilians is against the Geneva convention. But even within this there's a scale of wrongdoing.
Forcing this alternative Russia to withdraw from Ukraine via starving it's population would be arguably better in the long term and acceptable given the situation.
Brutalising a civilian population under occupation because there are some resistance fighters hiding out somewhere.... That's nazi shit.

[Admiral Yi]

They do not have full control over life and death.  They have not rescued the hostages.  Hamas continues to fight.

[Josquius]

They do not have full control over life and death.  They have not rescued the hostages.  Hamas continues to fight.

Really? Those babies have patriot batteries keeping the Israeli war planes from destroying whatever they choose?
There's something other than a slight thought about domestic and world opinion keeping soldiers on the ground from just machine gunning down whoever whenever?

I wonder what your views on Lidice and Oradour-sur-Glane are?

[Admiral Yi]

Really?

Yes, really.

[Razgovory]

But they don't occupy the lot.  It's an active warzone.  Do the Israeli even control the Gaza ministry of Health?  The Israelis claim to control about 70% of the Gaza strip, but that is likely optimistic. 

No, the difference between starving Russians and starving Palestinians is that you value one group more than the other.  Fighting the Russian is a cause you believe in.  You've made it quite clear you favor Palestine.  You stated several times that you want Israel out of Gaza.  To your credit you've never gone full Gaza independent and want them out of the Eurasian continent or off the mortal coil like most of those in the middle east. 

[Zoupa]

The question isn't "did we do that". The question is are you ok with the IDF denying civilians food because Hamas is not surrendering.

(btw it's a war crime, but we know you don't care about these pesky terms).

Still waiting, Raz.

I believe that blockades are legitimate, as do you.  You said it about Gaza, I quoted you a few pages back.  Hell, you endorsed Morganthau plan for Germany after the war.  A plan that entailed the starving of millions.  If we could really cut off food imports to Russia and force them out of the Ukraine, would you do it?  Of course you would.

You're misrepresenting my words, again. I said once this is over, there should be zero contact between Gaza and Israel. That has nothing to do with the current situation.

Not sure what the Morgenthau plan has to do with anything? The point of that plan was to turn Germany into an agrarian society, stripping it of it's war-making industry. It's literally the opposite of starving people...

Of course I would cut off any exports to russia. It's the biggest country on the planet my dude, you don't think they can grow some wheat? Google tells me they only import 35 billion USD worth of food annually. I'm sure that mostly fruits and stuff they can't grow. I wouldn't want any civilians to starve though, and would be fine with sending them whatever they needed like we routinely do with North Koreans.

And yes, you can blockade legally, but not when it results in civilian starvation . Do you just not care about international law, the Geneva convention etc?