Israel-Hamas War 2023

[HVC]

Guess we should have given the Nazis a break since most Germans didn't vote for Hitler.

If you keep wanting to make nazi equivalences wouldn't it make more sense to use it against the country that uses actual ghettos and pogroms? Asking for a friend.

[Razgovory]

Guess we should have given the Nazis a break since most Germans didn't vote for Hitler.

If you keep wanting to make nazi equivalences wouldn't it make more sense to use it against the country that uses actual ghettos and pogroms? Asking for a friend.

Yeah, but we really aren't talking about Iran.

[HVC]

I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for is israel. Good game, better luck next time.

[Razgovory]

That would still make pretty much every war a genocide.  For example the NATO war against the Taliban disintegrated political and social institutions and I'm sure the Taliban would argue that NATO was trying to destroy their religion, culture, national feelings and economic existence. 

The US poured aid into Afghanistan and put huge resources into reconstruction and education. The contrast between that and Israel's treatment of Gaza could not be more stark.

None of that contradicts what I said.  "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence". as defined by the Afghanis NATO was destroying the political and social institutions as well the culture and religion.  Ergo, it was genocide.

I wonder how much aid Israel has given Gaza over the decades.  Now both Afghanistan and Gaza go hungry. 

[Razgovory]

I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for is israel. Good game, better luck next time.

Yes, yes.  The sons of pig and apes are the misfortune of us all.  The crimes of others become virtues when compared drinkers of the blood of children.

[HVC]

I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for is israel. Good game, better luck next time.

Yes, yes.  The sons of pig and apes are misfortune of us all.  The crimes of others become virtues when compared drinkers of the blood of children.

Hey you started the "they're nazis" game, don't act all hurt when it can be used against you too. Nothing worse than the kid who cries and wants to take his ball home.

[Razgovory]

I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for is israel. Good game, better luck next time.

Yes, yes.  The sons of pig and apes are misfortune of us all.  The crimes of others become virtues when compared drinkers of the blood of children.

Hey you started the "they're nazis" game, don't act all hurt when it can be used against you too. Nothing worse than the kid who cries and wants to take his ball home.

No, I didn't say they were Nazis.  I simply pointed out that the comedian who thinks Jews control the US government could just have easily used his argument to defend Nazi Germany.

I think the Nazi comparisons are bit over the top,  I think we should compare the Israelis to other bad actors in history.  Like Britain, France, the US, Canada, China, Russia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and so forth.

[The Minsky Moment]

That would still make pretty much every war a genocide.  For example the NATO war against the Taliban disintegrated political and social institutions and I'm sure the Taliban would argue that NATO was trying to destroy their religion, culture, national feelings and economic existence. 

The US poured aid into Afghanistan and put huge resources into reconstruction and education. The contrast between that and Israel's treatment of Gaza could not be more stark.

None of that contradicts what I said.  "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence". as defined by the Afghanis NATO was destroying the political and social institutions as well the culture and religion.  Ergo, it was genocide.

The US did what it could to bolster the political and social institutions of Afghanistan.  It did nothing to undermine Afghan culture, language, national feelings, or religion. Afghan nationalism was positively encouraged.

There are many faults that can be pointed out about the US intervention in Afghanistan, but there is no definition of genocide I am aware of that fits.

Again, the contrast with Israel's policy towards Gaza in the past two years cannot be more clear.

[Zoupa]

I think we should compare the Israelis to other bad actors in history. 

Woooooooooooooah. Hold on there. That's anti-semitic.

[Razgovory]

That would still make pretty much every war a genocide.  For example the NATO war against the Taliban disintegrated political and social institutions and I'm sure the Taliban would argue that NATO was trying to destroy their religion, culture, national feelings and economic existence. 

The US poured aid into Afghanistan and put huge resources into reconstruction and education. The contrast between that and Israel's treatment of Gaza could not be more stark.

None of that contradicts what I said.  "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence". as defined by the Afghanis NATO was destroying the political and social institutions as well the culture and religion.  Ergo, it was genocide.

The US did what it could to bolster the political and social institutions of Afghanistan.  It did nothing to undermine Afghan culture, language, national feelings, or religion. Afghan nationalism was positively encouraged.

There are many faults that can be pointed out about the US intervention in Afghanistan, but there is no definition of genocide I am aware of that fits.

Again, the contrast with Israel's policy towards Gaza in the past two years cannot be more clear.

The Taliban would probably disagree.  The NATO destroyed the political and social intuition set up under the Taliban, and certainly undermined religion and culture as interpreted by the Taliban.  They do feel that women going around un-burkaed, and going to school very much undermines their religion and culture.

[Razgovory]

I think we should compare the Israelis to other bad actors in history. 

Woooooooooooooah. Hold on there. That's anti-semitic.

It's okay if you call them Israelis or Zionists.

Jews are blood-drinking parasites who can't help but steal.  Bad

Israelis are blood-drinking parasites who can't help but steal.  Good.

Jews are our misfortune. Bad

Zionists are our misfortune.  Good

See the difference?

[Zoupa]

You lost me.

[Razgovory]

Sorry, are should be or.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Taliban would probably disagree.  The NATO destroyed the political and social intuition set up under the Taliban, and certainly undermined religion and culture as interpreted by the Taliban.  They do feel that women going around un-burkaed, and going to school very much undermines their religion and culture.

The Taliban is not an ethnic group.  US forces did not ban use of the burqa; however, bans on the burqa were historically imposed by native Afghan leaders going back over a century.   These are facts and the facts do matter.

The Taliban may agree or disagree about any number of things, but their opinions don't determine reality.  I don't think this is complicated. I never took you for some radical post-modern subjectivist.

The fact is that the US policy in Afghanistan, however bungled, was not genocidal under any applicable defintion. Israel's policy in Gaza in 2025 is.  The policies are different, the impact is different, and the differences are night-and-day.

[Razgovory]

The Taliban would probably disagree.  The NATO destroyed the political and social intuition set up under the Taliban, and certainly undermined religion and culture as interpreted by the Taliban.  They do feel that women going around un-burkaed, and going to school very much undermines their religion and culture.

The Taliban is not an ethnic group.  US forces did not ban use of the burqa; however, bans on the burqa were historically imposed by native Afghan leaders going back over a century.  These are facts and the facts do matter.

The Taliban may agree or disagree about any number of things, but their opinions don't determine reality.  I don't think this is complicated. I never took you for some radical post-modern subjectivist.

The fact is that the US policy in Afghanistan, however bungled, was not genocidal under any applicable defintion. Israel's policy in Gaza in 2025 is.  The policies are different, the impact is different, and the differences are night-and-day.

Ethnic groups do make accusations of genocide, polities, governments, and individuals do.  My point was that using the above definition of genocide it can be applied to anyone.  Did NATO destroy the political and social institutions set up by the Taliban?  Yes.  That's not really subjective.  Under the UN definition the NATO arguably committed genocide:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Certainly we deliberately inflicted conditions calculated to destroy Afghanis (dropping bombs on them), in whole or in part, specifically the part actively shooting at us.  The Taliban, being members of one religious school, certainly be defined as a religious group.

The ICC did look into war crimes allegation against the US, but the Trump administration told them to piss up a rope and so the investigation was dropped.  The Taliban has of course accused the US of genocide, killing civilians and bombing hospitals and the like.  https://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/22/ret.rodgers.otsc/index.html

If the Taliban was more popular the NATO invasion and occupation of Afghanistan might have been considered genocide.  It certainly would have if the occupation was Israeli.

I don't have a good definition of genocide beyond: "Genocide is something people accuse their enemies of"