Archaeologists do it in holes: Tales from the stratigraphy

[Josquius]

So I follow a Substack on African history (which is great). Recently did an email on the Bantu expansion - which, given the German chat, seems relevant to some people's interests here (but, sadly, mostly not me):
https://open.substack.com/pub/isaacsamuel/p/on-the-history-of-the-bantu-expansion?r=7j9if&utm_medium=ios

Not least because Nazis love to point out the Boers were in SA before the Bantu :p

But sounds interesting

[Sheilbh]

Oh FFS - I genuinely thought I was sharing something that was at least a few degrees of separation from Nazis

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Oh FFS - I genuinely thought I was sharing something that was at least a few degrees of separation from Nazis

it's jos, it's nazis all the way down. :p
And if the Boers where in the region before the Bantu (don't know, since I don't know enough about african (pre-)history) then it doesn't matter if nazis like to point it out often. Even a broken clock, after all, is right at least once (and max twice) a day.

[Valmy]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

[Razgovory]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

I think most of the world would shrug if the Boers were driven out or even wiped out.

[Admiral Yi]

Some hott women.

[Valmy]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

I think most of the world would shrug if the Boers were driven out or even wiped out.

Damn. I know we all hate Elon Musk but that seems a little harsh 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

Obviously. But that just makes em like everybody else in the past, and likely the future too.
At least the system they installed got dismantled. Other places suffer less consequences for similar actions. Showing that reactions are very much dependent on time and politics.

[Razgovory]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

I think most of the world would shrug if the Boers were driven out or even wiped out.

Damn. I know we all hate Elon Musk but that seems a little harsh 

You really think you'd see mass demonstrations on behalf of white south Africans?  It's not like the world cried when the Pied Noirs fled.  There seems to be a consensus in the world that certain people don't belong in certain places.

[Valmy]

I don't think the problem people have with the Boers is how long they have lived any particular place. It is the sorts of things they have done once living there.

I think most of the world would shrug if the Boers were driven out or even wiped out.

Damn. I know we all hate Elon Musk but that seems a little harsh 

You really think you'd see mass demonstrations on behalf of white south Africans?  It's not like the world cried when the Pied Noirs fled.  There seems to be a consensus in the world that certain people don't belong in certain places.

The situation with the Pied Noirs happened in a war. And then they slowly faded to France over 20 years from the early 60s to the mid 80s. And while there was the very gross Oran massacre, that was not a coordinated policy of anybody that I can see, nor was there some kind of big decisive moment to ethnically cleanse them. Also due to all the attempts to kill Charles de Gaulle, the coup attempt, and the long bloody war that was being fought the people who were most likely to be sympathetic to the Pied Noirs were a bit turned off.

Also they were French citizens who claimed to have been living in France this whole time. That is kind of a specific situation. People obviously would expect France to take care of that situation and not do a big demonstration in Ohio about it. Like if things were happening to United States citizens, people would be wanting our government to take care of it. Doing a big demonstration to advance the cause of people a great power is supposed to be responsible for is...unusual. You are not exactly being a voice to the voiceless there. They have powerful representation.

Also there are tons of people over the course of the last two hundred years who were ethnically cleansed or killed with a shrug. Not just certain people.

I didn't notice the world being outraged over the fate of Crimean Tatars in 1944 either.

And I do think people would be outraged if the South African government started massacring the Boers. Or kicking them out. Especially now after decades of peace after the end of the Apartheid regime. The overwhelming majority of the Boers currently alive are not even guilty by association at this point.

Hell people are furious at South Africa wanting to disperse Boer-owned land that is currently being unused to black South Africans.

[Razgovory]

I don't even know when people in the West became aware of the ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Tartars, and quite frankly many of the people who get involved in mass protests would probably be okay with it.  It was done by the right people after all.  If more decedents of settlers were forced out of Africa in the name of fighting white supremacy, I think most of the world would be cool with it.  The only people who would raise a ruckus would be the far-right.  Like the expulsion of the Italians from Libya.  Or the land seizures in Zimbabwe. They were the wrong people to be living in Africa.

[Valmy]

I don't even know when people in the West became aware of the ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Tartars, and quite frankly many of the people who get involved in mass protests would probably be okay with it.  It was done by the right people after all.  If more decedents of settlers were forced out of Africa in the name of fighting white supremacy, I think most of the world would be cool with it.  The only people who would raise a ruckus would be the far-right.  Like the expulsion of the Italians from Libya.  Or the land seizures in Zimbabwe. They were the wrong people to be living in Africa.

I disagree. We are talking about a pretty sizeable population of people in South Africa. Something like 6% of the entire population. The murder of millions of people is not going to be greeted with "oh well they are whites so they deserve it" the best examples you can come up are much tinier minorities and the Zimbabwe thing basically made that country an international pariah.

Also I guess I missed all the big protests against other atrocities you seem to think keep happening.

[Razgovory]

I don't even know when people in the West became aware of the ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Tartars, and quite frankly many of the people who get involved in mass protests would probably be okay with it.  It was done by the right people after all.  If more decedents of settlers were forced out of Africa in the name of fighting white supremacy, I think most of the world would be cool with it.  The only people who would raise a ruckus would be the far-right.  Like the expulsion of the Italians from Libya.  Or the land seizures in Zimbabwe. They were the wrong people to be living in Africa.

I disagree. We are talking about a pretty sizeable population of people in South Africa. Something like 6% of the entire population. The murder of millions of people is not going to be greeted with "oh well they are whites so they deserve it" the best examples you can come up are much tinier minorities and the Zimbabwe thing basically made that country an international pariah.

Also I guess I missed all the big protests against other atrocities you seem to think keep happening.

Boers are like 1.4 million people, if you say anything about them being disposed you'd have guys like Josq saying that is just typical Nazi arguments.  Hopefully nothing happens that disabuses you of your notions.  And if something does happen, hopefully you have the moral courage to not justify it or try to wash your hands of the whole situation.

[Josquius]

The thing with White South Africans is they're generally (not universally obs) a rich and powerful group with a decent level of education.
If they had to leave South Africa then providing they were allowed to move somewhere (there wouldn't be much fuss about this I'd imagine) they should do OK for themselves.
A little different to when minorities usually get oppressed and become refugees.
And very different to the tiny white minorities elsewhere in Africa having to move back home/to their parents country.

The idea anyone other than a few nuts would be actively cheering for this though is just loopy.

The most fuss against helping them  I'd see being kicked up is when you get large numbers of mixed heritage people, black spouses, etc... Trying to get in on the movement. That would have the Razs quivering.

And the hijack -
I'm sorry. It was meang to be just a minor joke.

[Razgovory]

Really aren't proving me wrong Josq...