Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Zoupa]

In any case, I think we've gone off on a tangent.  I think the original discussion started with a claim that Musk made no engineering contributions to the success of his companies.  Then it went further with implicit claims that he didn't even have the education to do so.  The reality is that you don't need to be a licensed engineer to provide engineering direction and have great instincts for iterative development, especially if you own the companies you work in and thus won't be credentialed out of an opportunity to prove your worth.

Look at this very stable genius. Btw Spacex was granted an FAA contract today. Do you want his "engineering" expertise on this?

[HVC]

"Here's some money, make it go vroom"

" Engineering genius!"

[DGuller]

I don't want his expertise on anything today, precisely because he's far too unstable today.  That doesn't mean he didn't have any engineering insights 15 years ago.

[Valmy]

I don't want his expertise on anything today, precisely because he's far too unstable today.  That doesn't mean he didn't have any engineering insights 15 years ago.

Well the thing that gives me pause was his rush to take credit for things that clearly he didn't do, like the Roadster. And his current record of being a liar. Like claiming he works all the time and is an expert at video games when he clearly posts on twitter hundreds of times a day. And clearly being shitty at video games. And all the lies and misleading statements, to be charitable, he makes about his activities at DOGE.

So that brings the stuff in between into question. And there is definitely smoke there.

[Valmy]

The genius behind SpaceX doesn't understand the curvature of the Earth?

[DGuller]

I don't want his expertise on anything today, precisely because he's far too unstable today.  That doesn't mean he didn't have any engineering insights 15 years ago.

Well the thing that gives me pause was his rush to take credit for things that clearly he didn't do, like the Roadster. And his current record of being a liar. Like claiming he works all the time and is an expert at video games when he clearly posts on twitter hundreds of times a day. And clearly being shitty at video games. And all the lies and misleading statements, to be charitable, he makes about his activities at DOGE.

So that brings the stuff in between into question. And there is definitely smoke there.

What gives me pause is the fact that theories debunking Musk themselves make so little sense, just on their own, without one even having to start considering the story of Musk or his bootlickers.

[crazy canuck]

Stop drinking the fucking cool aid

[Admiral Yi]

DGuller, you're playing a different game than the others, with different rules.  You're trying to answer a discrete question, solve a puzzle, find the truth, the dialectic.  "Was Musk important to the success of Tesla and SpaceX?"

They're fighting a popularity contest.  Or alternatively they're signalling membership in the in group.  "We all hate Musk!"

[HVC]

DGuller, you're playing a different game than the others, with different rules.  You're trying to answer a discrete question, solve a puzzle, find the truth, the dialectic.  "Was Musk important to the success of Tesla and SpaceX?"

They're fighting a popularity contest.  Or alternatively they're signalling membership in the in group.  "We all hate Musk!"

I don't think anyone is questioning that musk was important, but how he was important. Was he the genius engineering mastermind that guided the breakthroughs and deftly managed that challenges, or was he the money man that provided the resources and took the credit.

I fall on the money man side based on his more public actions. not he nazi stuff, but his "management" of twitter, his behaviour with free reign of American bureaucracy and yes, his weird lies about his gaming prowess. The more private aspects of his entrepreneurial history paint a far different picture than the more public aspect. Could be a strange happenstance that his more open managerial behaviours differ so much from the myth, but I personally find it unlikely.

[Zoupa]

DGuller, you're playing a different game than the others, with different rules.  You're trying to answer a discrete question, solve a puzzle, find the truth, the dialectic.  "Was Musk important to the success of Tesla and SpaceX?"

They're fighting a popularity contest.  Or alternatively they're signalling membership in the in group.  "We all hate Musk!"

I used to love Musk when I thought he truly was a genius, not really for Tesla (I don't care about cars) but for SpaceX and his Mars project. When those rockets landed back, it was flabbergasting. So I read into it more. Turns out dude is not an engineer or a designer or anything. Uh ok, so what does he do. Well he sure give a lot interviews on youtube, let me look at those. Wow, he makes a lot of cool predictions! We'll have a colony on Mars by 2021! Hyperloop everywhere by 2022! Full self driving cars sometimes in the next 6 months!!!!

*2021 arrives*

We're nowhere near Mars. Hyperloop is a tunnel in Las Vegas, and cars don't even go faster than a subway. Full self driving has been promised "in the next 6 months" for 10 years. Then there was the Thailand cave fiasco. Then he started spouting stuff about something I actually know something about, COVID-19. And he was spewing complete nonsense, but very assuredly. Then he supported the trucker convoy. Then he called Trudeau Hitler. Then he bought Twitter and turned loose the nazis. Then he started fucking with Ukraine's Starlink. Then he supported Donald Trump. Then he Sieg Heil-ed, twice.

"We" all hate Musk for a reason dude, it didn't materialize out of thin air. We're not following a trend. We hate him because it turns out he's a terrible human being. He's a fucking nazi guys. Why is this even an argument. He keeps posting the 14 words on Twitter, thinking he's so clever disguising it.

Nobody is saying he's not a good project manager. Nobody is saying he's not a good entrepreneur. Nobody is saying he's not good at thinking outside the box. He's great at those things. He's also a fucking nazi.

I know you own tesla stock, so good for you I guess, but their CEO is a Nazi. A fucking nazi.

[Admiral Yi]

"We" all hate Musk for a reason dude, it didn't materialize out of thin air. We're not following a trend. We hate him because it turns out he's a terrible human being. He's a fucking nazi guys. Why is this even an argument. He keeps posting the 14 words on Twitter, thinking he's so clever disguising it.

Nobody is saying he's not a good project manager. Nobody is saying he's not a good entrepreneur. Nobody is saying he's not good at thinking outside the box. He's great at those things. He's also a fucking nazi.

I know you own tesla stock, so good for you I guess, but their CEO is a Nazi. A fucking nazi.

You in effect said he was not a good project manager a while back.  You said something to the effect that the technology was all there and anyone could have done what he did.

Listing all the shitty stuff he has done is missing the point.  None of that stuff is relevant to the question DGuller is addressing.  It doesn't refute his point.  What it is relevant to is the we all hate Musk game.

[Zoupa]

I didn't say any of these things. To the question "Was Musk important to the success of Tesla and SpaceX?", I have no idea, but I'm guessing yes, very. I think both companies changed and affected their respective fields noticeably.

He's still a fucking nazi, and I wouldn't buy his products or invest in his stock. Because, you know, he's a fucking nazi.

[Zoupa]

I guess my point is that Dguller's question doesn't matter in fine.

[Admiral Yi]

I guess my point is that Dguller's question doesn't matter in fine.

It doesn't win points in the We Hate Musk game.  It does win points in the myth-prevention game.

[Zoupa]

Cool.