Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Admiral Yi]

Why not?  Replace his narrative with another one. 

You're not going to win a country back touting things like 'independent thinking'.  Almost nobody is interested in that.  People want narratives that they can either follow along with or rail against.  And given that modern globalized, interconnected life is an extremely complex thing where deep expertise in specific areas is required to understand them, I don't blame them.  Shouting at people and asking them why they aren't smarter is how you marginalize yourself. 

You may be right.  The question then becomes which myths will win 51% of the vote.

[DGuller]

My view on groupthink has little to do with going high rather than low, it's mostly pragmatic.  Groupthink leads to blunders.

[Neil]

My view on groupthink has little to do with going high rather than low, it's mostly pragmatic.  Groupthink leads to blunders.

All thought leads to blunders.  Mistakes are unavoidable. 

[Jacob]

My view on groupthink has little to do with going high rather than low, it's mostly pragmatic.  Groupthink leads to blunders.

Groupthink can very much lead to blunders, true; but undermining key narratives can also be a recipe for ineffectiveness or worse.

I make no comment on the current topic - Musk's credibility as an engineer (though I agree with Zoupa that Musk is a fucking Nazi so fuck that guy). I just want to note that sometimes you should refrain from bombarding your own rallying points even if they haven't been chosen perfectly.

Sometimes, of course, you should. But not always.

[mongers]

My view on groupthink has little to do with going high rather than low, it's mostly pragmatic.  Groupthink leads to blunders.

Groupthink can very much lead to blunders, true; but undermining key narratives can also be a recipe for ineffectiveness or worse.

I make no comment on the current topic - Musk's credibility as an engineer (though I agree with Zoupa that Musk is a fucking Nazi so fuck that guy). I just want to note that sometimes you should refrain from bombarding your own rallying points even if they haven't been chosen perfectly.

Sometimes, of course, you should. But not always.

Did people in pre-war Germany have lengthy debates about what sort of WW1 pilot or how good a hunter Hermann Goring was?

[Admiral Yi]

I just want to note that sometimes you should refrain from bombarding your own rallying points even if they haven't been chosen perfectly.

Why?

[Jacob]

Why?

What's your best guess?

[grumbler]

Now you are being an asshole.  Let me ask you, what have you read that has led to your conclusion that Musk was nothing more than an investor who then became the Chairman of the Board and ousted the Engineer who designed all the systems.

I have never stated nor ever reached that conclusion, so it clear that I'm not the asshole here.

From your reading, do you know who that person was?  Do you know about the litigation which ensued between them over that very point?

There was no single "Engineer who designed all the systems." That's not how applied technology works. I do know about the litigation over "who founded Tesla" that concluded that Tesla had 5 founders, including Musk.  I also know that Eberhard won the initial stages of a suit claiming that Musk defamed him when Musk claimed that Eberhard's poor management led to delays in production of the Roadster, though I think that Eberhard reached a settlement before it went to trial (details are sketchy, possibly because of NDAs).

I note that you avoid mentioning names (other than Musk) in all of this.  Is it because you do not know the names, or are just being sloppy in making your arguments?

[grumbler]

Did people in pre-war Germany have lengthy debates about what sort of WW1 pilot or how good a hunter Hermann Goring was?

As a fighter pilot, yes.  I've never seen anything addressing his hunting skills.

[Admiral Yi]

What's your best guess?

I'll tell you my best guess if you answer my question.  "I don't know" will do the trick.