Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Valmy]

Just to be clear my information was entirely based on what I learned about his time at Tesla. I know nothing about what he did at PayPal or SpaceX. My contention is that once he got beyond the road map laid out by the founder of the company, Tesla has failed in its designs. Even if he is not an engineer who does the detail work, those were his projects and initiatives.

What he has done at Twitter kind of speaks for itself I think though I haven't done any research on it.

Okay, clarification noted.  Even then, though, the whole "roadmap" argument seems to dismiss almost the whole difficulty of engineering a product like Tesla.  You don't just create a roadmap and then sit back and collect the dividends from it.  It's a constant battle of problem-solving and course correction.  Crediting the roadmap guy for Tesla's success is like crediting Stavka's 1941 battle plans for USSR's victory in WW2.

No. You have engineers and employees working on the designs. I didn't know Musk was the only one working at Tesla. The CEO is supposed to put forth the sorts of products the company is supposed to be working. And at some point they went from a logically sound product line to working on bizarre boondoggles. Gosh why was that?

I seems like you are just ignoring what I have to say in favor of some weird strawman you can sneer at.

But in any case it seems I get to spend quite a bit of time digging up articles and shit.

[DGuller]

I guess my point is that Dguller's question doesn't matter in fine.

Bad thinking habits always matter.  You get used used to falling into groupthink on questions that may not matter, and you will carry over that habit on questions that do matter. 

Even on questions that do not matter, people outside of your echo chamber will see you spout nonsense that makes sense only to the in group, and they'll not be waiting with bated breath to hear what you will have to say on the important stuff that you're saving up all your critical thinking for.

Cool. I'm glad you're fighting the good fight against groupthink regarding Elon Musk's qualifications and his influence over his companies. I'm sure there's nothing more important going on in your country right now.

I'm fighting the good fight against groupthink in general, one example at a time.  Musk happens to be the example we're now discussing.

And yes, US has serious problems now, partly because group-thinking became a bipartisan activity.  The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism.

[crazy canuck]

I guess my point is that Dguller's question doesn't matter in fine.

Bad thinking habits always matter.  You get used used to falling into groupthink on questions that may not matter, and you will carry over that habit on questions that do matter. 

Even on questions that do not matter, people outside of your echo chamber will see you spout nonsense that makes sense only to the in group, and they'll not be waiting with bated breath to hear what you will have to say on the important stuff that you're saving up all your critical thinking for.

Cool. I'm glad you're fighting the good fight against groupthink regarding Elon Musk's qualifications and his influence over his companies. I'm sure there's nothing more important going on in your country right now.

I'm fighting the good fight against groupthink in general, one example at a time.  Musk happens to be the example we're now discussing.

And yes, US has serious problems now, partly because group-thinking became a bipartisan activity.  The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism. 

No, you're not. You're the epitome of group think.  You have bought the Elon Musk myth, hook line and sinker.

You are a perfect example of somebody who doesn't actually read newspapers and gets all of his information from social media

You've bought his self promotion campaign, which started when he invested in Tesla became the chairman of the board and forced out all the actual engineers who designed the cars and took credit for all of their work.

All of this as well documented but you keep repeating the party line that is well established by all of the Musk sycophants.

In short, you are a perfect example of how somebody like Trump can exist. Repeat a lie enough times and people just believe it.

[Razgovory]

[Grey Fox]

Musk best ability other than raising capital is his ability to say yes. He has, over the years, correctly asserted risks in multitude of technical systems in different markets. His companies have rarely delivered, if ever, the entirety of the vision but the products get made. In 1 way or another.

[Neil]

The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism.

Why not?  Replace his narrative with another one. 

You're not going to win a country back touting things like 'independent thinking'.  Almost nobody is interested in that.  People want narratives that they can either follow along with or rail against.  And given that modern globalized, interconnected life is an extremely complex thing where deep expertise in specific areas is required to understand them, I don't blame them.  Shouting at people and asking them why they aren't smarter is how you marginalize yourself. 

[grumbler]

This is so Languish btw. You guys will be arguing about what type of rifle the soldier is holding as you're getting led to the execution spot.

This is so Languish btw. "All the evidence for my sweeping generalization is wrong, but I will cling to it anyway because it feels good."

[grumbler]

No, you're not. You're the epitome of group think.  You have bought the Elon Musk myth, hook line and sinker.

You are a perfect example of somebody who doesn't actually read newspapers and gets all of his information from social media

You've bought his self promotion campaign, which started when he invested in Tesla became the chairman of the board and forced out all the actual engineers who designed the cars and took credit for all of their work.

All of this as well documented but you keep repeating the party line that is well established by all of the Musk sycophants.

In short, you are a perfect example of how somebody like Trump can exist. Repeat a lie enough times and people just believe it.

You might want to take a step back and rethink what you are arguing and how you are presenting it.  This is pure 100% crazy rant shit, divorced from reality. None of the things you say here are true.

[Zoupa]

The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism.

Why not?  Replace his narrative with another one. 

You're not going to win a country back touting things like 'independent thinking'.  Almost nobody is interested in that.  People want narratives that they can either follow along with or rail against.  And given that modern globalized, interconnected life is an extremely complex thing where deep expertise in specific areas is required to understand them, I don't blame them.  Shouting at people and asking them why they aren't smarter is how you marginalize yourself. 

I kind of agree. The "when they go low we go high" has not worked and I see no markers it'll be effective in the future. Democrats need simple messaging.
"Trump fired the aviation security guys and now planes are crashing"
"Trump put Musk in charge of Medicare and now your benefits are slashed"
"Trump fired the poultry security folks and now egg prices have doubled"
Put cause and effect in one simple sentence.

[Zoupa]

Cool. I'm glad you're fighting the good fight against groupthink regarding Elon Musk's qualifications and his influence over his companies. I'm sure there's nothing more important going on in your country right now.

I'm fighting the good fight against groupthink in general, one example at a time.  Musk happens to be the example we're now discussing.

And yes, US has serious problems now, partly because group-thinking became a bipartisan activity.  The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism.

I think it's great for you that you're so obviously confident in your ability to discern groupthink. Everyone else is affected and tribal, but not you. You see through all that to gives us the Truth, the real facts.

You're special. Thank you for your service.

[crazy canuck]

No, you're not. You're the epitome of group think.  You have bought the Elon Musk myth, hook line and sinker.

You are a perfect example of somebody who doesn't actually read newspapers and gets all of his information from social media

You've bought his self promotion campaign, which started when he invested in Tesla became the chairman of the board and forced out all the actual engineers who designed the cars and took credit for all of their work.

All of this as well documented but you keep repeating the party line that is well established by all of the Musk sycophants.

In short, you are a perfect example of how somebody like Trump can exist. Repeat a lie enough times and people just believe it.

You might want to take a step back and rethink what you are arguing and how you are presenting it.  This is pure 100% crazy rant shit, divorced from reality. None of the things you say here are true.

Take a step back yourself.  Read a bit about what happened at Tesla after Musk became an investor and then Chairman of the Board. Don't do a google search and pick up social media bullshit. Actually read the investigative reporting into what occurred.

[grumbler]

The left is not going to groupthink their way out of Trumpism.

Why not?  Replace his narrative with another one. 

You're not going to win a country back touting things like 'independent thinking'.  Almost nobody is interested in that.  People want narratives that they can either follow along with or rail against.  And given that modern globalized, interconnected life is an extremely complex thing where deep expertise in specific areas is required to understand them, I don't blame them.  Shouting at people and asking them why they aren't smarter is how you marginalize yourself. 

I kind of agree. The "when they go low we go high" has not worked and I see no markers it'll be effective in the future. Democrats need simple messaging.
"Trump fired the aviation security guys and now planes are crashing"
"Trump put Musk in charge of Medicare and now your benefits are slashed"
"Trump fired the poultry security folks and now egg prices have doubled"
Put cause and effect in one simple sentence.

  There is so much ammunition
"Trump promised that there would be zero inflation in his term, but inflation has gone up."
"Trump told us he would create a booming economy and unemployment has gone up."
"Trump promised to reduce the deficit and now wants to increase the deficit."
End the Ukraine war the day he took office, etc etc.

[grumbler]

Take a step back yourself.  Read a bit about what happened at Tesla after Musk became an investor and then Chairman of the Board. Don't do a google search and pick up social media bullshit. Actually read the investigative reporting into what occurred.

I've already done that, and what I have found is very different from your social media has apparently convinced you is true. Retconning 2025 Musk onto 2006 Musk just doesn't work. The facts actually exist in the real world, not in your fevered dreams.

[crazy canuck]

Take a step back yourself.  Read a bit about what happened at Tesla after Musk became an investor and then Chairman of the Board. Don't do a google search and pick up social media bullshit. Actually read the investigative reporting into what occurred.

I've already done that, and what I have found is very different from your social media has apparently convinced you is true. Retconning 2025 Musk onto 2006 Musk just doesn't work. The facts actually exist in the real world, not in your fevered dreams.

Now you are being an asshole.  Let me ask you, what have you read that has led to your conclusion that Musk was nothing more than an investor who then became the Chairman of the Board and ousted the Engineer who designed all the systems.

From your reading, do you know who that person was?  Do you know about the litigation which ensued between them over that very point?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Trump-elons influence to divide reaches far....