[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[HVC]

Libs are leading by 7 points in the weekly Nanos poll.


Bloc support is down. 

So win-win?

[viper37]

No.

[Valmy]

Trump is saving the Liberals' ass.

[HVC]

No.

Come on, your liberal renaissance was coming along so nicely

[HVC]

Trump is saving the Liberals' ass.

He's got be good for something.

I mean assuming Trudeau doesn't do an about face. If the conservatives had a better candidate maybe, but not with the one they have now.

[crazy canuck]

Trump is saving the Liberals' ass.

Yep

[Jacob]

Trump is in no way normal!  He's a complete anomaly!

It's that other people view him as just part of the conservative spectrum.

That's exactly the crux of the issue. Is Trump the new normal? Or is he an aberration that will be followed by a regression to the mean?

I think the fear is that Trump is the lodestar of the North American right and pulling the new normal significantly towards himself.

[Barrister]

Trump is in no way normal!  He's a complete anomaly!

It's that other people view him as just part of the conservative spectrum.

That's exactly the crux of the issue. Is Trump the new normal? Or is he an aberration that will be followed by a regression to the mean?

I think the fear is that Trump is the lodestar of the North American right and pulling the new normal significantly towards himself.

So just to explain my thoughts...

There's no question that Trump will have a long-lasting impact on right-of-centre politics.  There's zero chance we just return to the Reagan-Thatcher consensus of the 1980s.  Whether that becomes just a matter of style, or bleeds over into policy, remains to be seen.

What I object to is the notion that Trump represents a continuation of that Reagan-Thatcher strain of political thought, and not a fundamental break from it.

[Valmy]

What I object to is the notion that Trump represents a continuation of that Reagan-Thatcher strain of political thought, and not a fundamental break from it.

I guess my thinking is that Reagan, I cannot speak for Thatcher, harnessed this kind of reactionary energy thinking he and responsible conservatives could control it. But they kept bringing it out from time to time in campaign ads and in subtle ways. Eventually it consumed the movement.

I can't speak for what is going on in Britain or conservatism in the rest of the Anglosphere.

[Jacob]

What I object to is the notion that Trump represents a continuation of that Reagan-Thatcher strain of political thought, and not a fundamental break from it.

I think that's an interesting discussion, if somewhat academic.

I don't, however, think that that discussion, whatever the conclusion, is particularly relevant to any conclusions about Poilievre or how one should vote in the upcoming election.

[Jacob]

Anecdotally I know a handful of people who were fully in the bag for Poilievre and committed anti-Trudeauites who have declared they'll vote for Liberals if Carney is their leader.

[Barrister]

I don't, however, think that that discussion, whatever the conclusion, is particularly relevant to any conclusions about Poilievre or how one should vote in the upcoming election.

My only assertion here is that Poilievre should be judged on his own merits (or lack thereof), and not based on whether he "sounds like Trump".

[crazy canuck]

What I object to is the notion that Trump represents a continuation of that Reagan-Thatcher strain of political thought, and not a fundamental break from it.

I think that's an interesting discussion, if somewhat academic.

I don't, however, think that that discussion, whatever the conclusion, is particularly relevant to any conclusions about Poilievre or how one should vote in the upcoming election.

Also, a strawman argument. I have not heard the argument that Trump is a continuation of Reagan/Thatcher.  If BB hears the criticism as being that, then that explains why he doesn't understand what is being referenced.

What is often claimed is that Trumpism is a continuation of the original American First movement (which supported the Nazis), and then gets picked up by Buchanan and others in the waning days of the Cold War.

Reagan has a lot to answer for, but Trumpism isn't really one of those things.

[crazy canuck]

I don't, however, think that that discussion, whatever the conclusion, is particularly relevant to any conclusions about Poilievre or how one should vote in the upcoming election.

My only assertion here is that Poilievre should be judged on his own merits (or lack thereof), and not based on whether he "sounds like Trump".

So we don't get to judge him based on what he says?  How then is one to judge him?  He has not released any policy proposals other than "axe the tax" and that is now a dead issue.  Surely we get to judge him on the rhetoric he uses and have at least some concern that he means what he says.

[Valmy]

Reagan has a lot to answer for, but Trumpism isn't really one of those things.

Not sure I agree. He sure did a bit to help Pat Buchanan along who you name dropped as a precursor.

Reagan got the support of the 'America First' movement and the proto-Trumpians.

But, I guess, to be fair Nixon had also done quite a bit of that.