[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

What makes you think Poilievre needs to be 'held in check'?

See Donald Trump 1st and 2nd mandate.

1st mandate, people holding him check.
2nd mandate, no one to hold him in check.

What makes you think Poilievre is the same as Trump?

Other than the fact he's conservative?

Maybe I'm just not very good at being a debater, but I could swear that's the exact point I just made...

[viper37]

I believe you're wrong.

The rate of increase of CO2 emissions is declining.  Estimates are we will stop increasing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276629/global-co2-emissions/

Alberta wants to pump more CO2 in the air.  So does the US.

India isn't aiming toward clean energy.  China is a mixed bag.

[viper37]

What makes you think Poilievre is the same as Trump?

His discourse?  His loyal base?  His anti vax rants?  His applause of the freedom convoy? His constant defense of conspiracy theories?  His proposal of replacing the CAD$ with Bitcoins?  His calls of incompetence toward Tiff Macklem?  His general crass populism?

Need I go on point by point?

[Barrister]

What makes you think Poilievre is the same as Trump?

His discourse?  His loyal base?  His anti vax rants?  His applause of the freedom convoy? His constant defense of conspiracy theories?  His proposal of replacing the CAD$ with Bitcoins?  His calls of incompetence toward Tiff Macklem?  His general crass populism?

Need I go on point by point?

No you don't - because I don't understand any of those points you're trying to make.

Bye.

[crazy canuck]

I would rather not take the risk that our institutions could withstand the Conservatives mimicking what Trump is doing. 

I've noted this tension in political discourse for many years now.

"Trump is a danger to democracy and good government because he's a uniquely dangerous individual".

vs.

"Trump is a danger to democracy and good government because he's a conservative".

I mean - i sort of understand that argument from the left - they are of the left, and think right-wingers have the wrong ideas.  It's not always a compelling argument in an election to say "I disagree with my opponent, but really they'll only be slightly bad for the country if they win".  When John McCain told a supporter in 2008 that Obama was a "decent man" it was a wonderful demonstration of democratic virtue - but probably not great politics.

But this is what I sense with a lot of the 'Poilievre is mimicking Trump' kind of talk.  He's mimicking Trump - because he says right-wing things.

We'll see though.  There's a "non-zero" chance that Canadians turn on Poilievre because Trump causes voters to turn left.  The Liberal Party has been trying for decades to convince people that "Canadian values" equal "left-wing values".  Maybe they've been successful.

If you want to engage in the discussion without mischaracterization, I'm happy to do it. But you're engaging in mischaracterization so there's no point right now.

[Barrister]

If you want to engage in the discussion without mischaracterization, I'm happy to do it. But you're engaging in mischaracterization so there's no point right now.

Cool.

I didn't even mention you by name, or characterize this as precisely your argument, but I 100% agree on the virtue of the ignore feature on this forum as a key to better mental health, so if you want to ignore me have at it.

[viper37]

What makes you think Poilievre is the same as Trump?

His discourse?  His loyal base?  His anti vax rants?  His applause of the freedom convoy? His constant defense of conspiracy theories?  His proposal of replacing the CAD$ with Bitcoins?  His calls of incompetence toward Tiff Macklem?  His general crass populism?

Need I go on point by point?

No you don't - because I don't understand any of those points you're trying to make.

Bye.

You're still seeing Trump as normal right wing and trying to rationalize his behavior.  And you're looking at Poilièvre through the same lenses.

I wish would look at everything rationally instead of through a rightwing/conservative bias. <sigh>

[Barrister]

You're still seeing Trump as normal right wing and trying to rationalize his behavior.  And you're looking at Poilièvre through the same lenses.

I wish would look at everything rationally instead of through a rightwing/conservative bias. <sigh>

No you dumbass!

Trump is in no way normal!  He's a complete anomaly!

It's that other people view him as just part of the conservative spectrum.

[HVC]

At the cost of attracting your ire, is project 2025 not on the conservative spectrum? Most of the shit Trumps currently pulling is going according to that plan.

Mr. P while not a trump clone, is more along that side of whatever spectrum Trump belongs to then any conservative leader we've had in the past. That alone should give someone pause.

[crazy canuck]

You're still seeing Trump as normal right wing and trying to rationalize his behavior.  And you're looking at Poilièvre through the same lenses.

I wish would look at everything rationally instead of through a rightwing/conservative bias. <sigh>

No you dumbass!

Trump is in no way normal!  He's a complete anomaly!

It's that other people view him as just part of the conservative spectrum.

No, he's not an anomaly. He's just the latest manifestation of the fundamentalist right wing movement that has been manifesting itself at least since the 80s and is a throwback to the 20s and 30s in the United States. You just have rose coloured glasses on and refused to believe that there is a significant segment of the conservative movement that is just plain evil.

[Barrister]

No, he's not an anomaly. He's just the latest manifestation of the fundamentalist right wing movement that has been manifesting itself at least since the 80s and is a throwback to the 20s and 30s in the United States. You just have rose coloured glasses on and refused to believe that there is a significant segment of the conservative movement that is just plain evil.

And yet you accused me of mischaracterization earlier.

That's what I always understood you to be saying, and that I fundamentally disagree with. 

[crazy canuck]

No, he's not an anomaly. He's just the latest manifestation of the fundamentalist right wing movement that has been manifesting itself at least since the 80s and is a throwback to the 20s and 30s in the United States. You just have rose coloured glasses on and refused to believe that there is a significant segment of the conservative movement that is just plain evil.

And yet you accused me of mischaracterization earlier.

That's what I always understood you to be saying, and that I fundamentally disagree with. 

Yes, I know.  You are in complete denial. 

sleep better at night, thinking that this is only about Trump, but wake up for fuck sakes. There's a whole infrastructure of largely fundamentalist Christian conservatives backing him.  He didn't come up with project 2025. That was the work of others. And those others are implementing it. But you keep your head in the sand. I'm sure everything will be fine for you.

[viper37]

No, he's not an anomaly. He's just the latest manifestation of the fundamentalist right wing movement that has been manifesting itself at least since the 80s and is a throwback to the 20s and 30s in the United States. You just have rose coloured glasses on and refused to believe that there is a significant segment of the conservative movement that is just plain evil.

And yet you accused me of mischaracterization earlier.

That's what I always understood you to be saying, and that I fundamentally disagree with. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jamil-jivani-jd-vance-inauguration-1.7434145

[Grey Fox]

With Climate change and the thining ice, I think it would be possible to keep the Port open year round. We would need more ice breakers. A whole fleet. Also a lot of pipelines & train tracks need to be built. Also something we can do.

25 years of lazyness about our infrastructure has got us royally fucked by the US. We need to change.

So I don't wish to minimize climate change.  It's real.  We should stop it, or at least minimize how much it is happening.

Climate change though is not going to take a 5 month shipping season to a 12 month shipping season.  2 degrees c will have a noticeable and bad effect on the world, but is not going to turn the sub-arctic into a temperate zone.

year round seems far fetched but sea ice in Hudson Bay is on average reducing every year. With Ice Breakers openning the way we could try for a 8 months shipping season.

It's time to dream. It's time to progress!

[viper37]

Libs are leading by 7 points in the weekly Nanos poll.


Bloc support is down.