Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Admiral Yi]

In places still, think SW lad joining the Marines, Inner city Scots entering the now amalgamated Scottish regiments, and I think Northern city youths are still much more likely to join up than their southern counterparts* .

*Please note I pulled all of these quaint cameos off the top of my head / out of my arse.

I wasn't thinking of UK and France.  I was thinking of Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc., etc.

[Admiral Yi]

Similarly from that, I think for the enlisted the US military is less white than the civilian workforce - so it may not be red state farm boys signing up in South Carolina.

Your link says in every branch whites are over represented except the navy (!).

[Sheilbh]

Your link says in every branch whites are over represented except the navy (!).

I said enlisted - look at the race and ethnicity by rank compared with civilian population. Also I don't think it is just the navy, though I think that's the only one across male and female personnel.

[Admiral Yi]

You're right.  White *men* are over represented in every branch except the navy.

[Zanza]

I wasn't thinking of UK and France.  I was thinking of Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc., etc.

There is a debate in Germany about conscription. Considering the demographics, volunteers are unlikely to be enough.
Another option would be a kind of foreign legion.

[HVC]

I wasn't thinking of UK and France.  I was thinking of Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc., etc.

There is a debate in Germany about conscription. Considering the demographics, volunteers are unlikely to be enough.
Another option would be a kind of foreign legion.

Get some Italians. 2000 year old role reversal

[Threviel]

With more money comes higher wages for soldiers supplanted by conscription. Demographic collapse is a problem, but a larger problem for Russia and China than for the west. If push comes to shove we could start up foreign legions. Service guarantees citizenship.

What's needed is will. We need to get our propaganda machines up and running, get our populations back into a Cold War mindset.

[Tamas]

If push comes to shove we could start up foreign legions. Service guarantees citizenship.

This would be one more juicy comparison with the decline and fall of Rome.

[Duque de Bragança]

If push comes to shove we could start up foreign legions. Service guarantees citizenship.

This would be one more juicy comparison with the decline and fall of Rome.

Only when a new Edict of Caracalla comes into play.   

[grumbler]

If push comes to shove we could start up foreign legions. Service guarantees citizenship.

This would be one more juicy comparison with the decline and fall of Rome.

But also to the rise of the Roman Republic.

[grumbler]

Another option would be a kind of foreign legion.

The Swiss.  But remember that "no money, no Swiss."

[Iormlund]

I wasn't thinking of UK and France.  I was thinking of Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc., etc.

We can tap Latin America for recruits.

But I would be really surprised to find that we've reached 2% - much less 3.5% - of our budget spent on defense. Spain is really far from Russia, and never truly recovered from the debt crisis.
In addition, Sánchez needs the support of parties that see the military as their enemy.

[Sheilbh]

We can tap Latin America for recruits.

But I would be really surprised to find that we've reached 2% - much less 3.5% - of our budget spent on defense. Spain is really far from Russia, and never truly recovered from the debt crisis.
In addition, Sánchez needs the support of parties that see the military as their enemy.

I think the first bit of that issue is the real core problem of common European defence - there isn't a common strategy or view of risk. The perspective from Estonia or Poland is different than even Germany or Spain, similarly a country that already spends over 3.5% is Greece who are also one of the most pro-Russian countries in Europe and that's not their focus.

I think it's something France has recently got - that if they want to lead European defence policy part of it is substituting their views for their allies because that allows their allies to trust and spend more for a common good because they'll get it will protect them. But France has not been able to do that through any European institution - instead it's been minilateralist relationships eg with Romania, Greece and Cyprus focused on the Eastern Med, increasingly with Poland and the Baltics on Russia. I think that's possibly the best we can hope for - little coalition of countries with similar perspectives (eg Poland and the Baltics; the JEF of Britain, Baltics, Nordics and Netherlands; France in the Eastern Med).

This would be one more juicy comparison with the decline and fall of Rome.

It's always been the way here, legacy of empire etc etc - even looking apart from specific geographic forces like the Gurkhas (and I could be wrong but on legacies of empire I think the British, Indian and Pakistani militaries all have Gurkha regiments). It's a cheaper, easier route to naturalisation particularly for Commonwealth citizens. See, I think the most recent VC recipient, Johnson Beharry, originally from Grenada.

But also the Irish Regiments which, from my understanding, roughly recruit equally from South and North. There's always been a tradition of Irish service in the British military - and if you're the type of young person who wants to sign up and see service, it's probably a better bet than the Irish Defence Forces (who, in fairness, do a lot of peacekeeping).

[Iormlund]

We can tap Latin America for recruits.

But I would be really surprised to find that we've reached 2% - much less 3.5% - of our budget spent on defense. Spain is really far from Russia, and never truly recovered from the debt crisis.
In addition, Sánchez needs the support of parties that see the military as their enemy.

I think the first bit of that issue is the real core problem of common European defence - there isn't a common strategy or view of risk. The perspective from Estonia or Poland is different than even Germany or Spain, similarly a country that already spends over 3.5% is Greece who are also one of the most pro-Russian countries in Europe and that's not their focus.

I think it's something France has recently got - that if they want to lead European defence policy part of it is substituting their views for their allies because that allows their allies to trust and spend more for a common good because they'll get it will protect them. But France has not been able to do that through any European institution - instead it's been minilateralist relationships eg with Romania, Greece and Cyprus focused on the Eastern Med, increasingly with Poland and the Baltics on Russia. I think that's possibly the best we can hope for - little coalition of countries with similar perspectives (eg Poland and the Baltics; the JEF of Britain, Baltics, Nordics and Netherlands; France in the Eastern Med).

It doesn't help that the one vulnerability Spain has, the North African possessions, is excluded from the Treaty.

As such it is hard to conceive any common mission of interest for us within NATO beyond maritime peacekeeping.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

building up the navy would not be a bad way to go though.