Greedy Billionaires Not Named Elon Megathread

[Syt]

One thing that is quite telling with this shooting is how much attention it is getting vs the hundreds of other murders per day. Really shines a light on the value of different lives.

It was infuriating when this crook got so much attention by the mayor of New York and the NYPD. And then some McDonald's employee found him.

How about expending this kind of effort on innocent people getting murdered? Not some asshole under investigation for fraud?

Some people are more equal richer than others.

Still, with all the horror stories about medical insurance in the U.S., I'm surprised that insurance companies aren't shot up/bombed more often.

[Valmy]

Some people are more equal richer than others.

Still, with all the horror stories about medical insurance in the U.S., I'm surprised that insurance companies aren't shot up/bombed more often.

Thus far the media have managed to direct people's anger towards the opposing political parties. But one thing we are definitely seeing is right wing men starting to just target anybody they can blame. So we had two of them go after Trump and now we have this dude shooting the United CEO instead of shooting up schools, minorities, and left wing protestors. So I guess Marx would say they are starting to become class conscious or something.

I do not know why the left doesn't seem to do these sorts of things outside of mob violence during protests gone nasty. So far we don't have antifa assassins gunning down CEOs and politicians.

But hey we might be headed that way. Really ever since the Cold War ended the people in the United States have been fed up and want country to change. But nothing really seems to.

[Syt]

Well, politicians need the public to get elected, but they also need increasingly deep pockets to even compete in the political arena in the first place. And they're incentivized to keep their donors happy due to it (see threats of funding primaries against "disloyal" politicians). Money isn't everything you need to get elected (see Dr Oz, Bloomberg), but not having it is a major disadvantage.

[crazy canuck]

I do not know why the left doesn't seem to do these sorts of things outside of mob violence during protests gone nasty. So far we don't have antifa assassins gunning down CEOs and politicians.

A number years ago Oex took the time to explain to me the difference between right wing and left wing populism.  Reading your observation made me think about that.

I could not give his description justice, so I won't try.  But maybe he will chime in on this point.

[crazy canuck]

Really ever since the Cold War ended the people in the United States have been fed up and want country to change. But nothing really seems to.

I wanted to address this as a separate point. I think you are dating the urge for change too early.  The early 90s were a kind of golden age.  Everything seemed possible now that the Cold War was over.  We had won and the world was going be become a Liberal Democratic paradise.  It was the end of history.

It didn't take long for that dream to turn into a nightmare, but I would date it to a decade later.

[Valmy]

Really ever since the Cold War ended the people in the United States have been fed up and want country to change. But nothing really seems to.

I wanted to address this as a separate point. I think you are dating the urge for change too early.  The early 90s were a kind of golden age.  Everything seemed possible now that the Cold War was over.  We had won and the world was going be become a Liberal Democratic paradise.  It was the end of history.

It didn't take long for that dream to turn into a nightmare, but I would date it to a decade later.

There was a lot of frustration that the end of the Cold War didn't mean the end of American international adventures and big deficits and all that. Hence why Ross Perot happened in 1992 and 1996. I do agree that that round of unhappiness and unrest died down by the late 1990s and it seemed like things might work out and then everybody rallied to the flag after 9/11 but by 2003 all that was gone.

It just seems like the whole damn world now is on fire and in decline. I keep thinking things are really bad here but then I look around the world and think "holy shit, maybe we have it good?"

[crazy canuck]

I agree.  One of the things that got worse over time, and at an accelerating pace, was wealth inequality.  To your point about class consciousness, I think we are seeing the effects of the destruction of what had been a comfortable middle class life.

[Sheilbh]

Thus far the media have managed to direct people's anger towards the opposing political parties. But one thing we are definitely seeing is right wing men starting to just target anybody they can blame. So we had two of them go after Trump and now we have this dude shooting the United CEO instead of shooting up schools, minorities, and left wing protestors. So I guess Marx would say they are starting to become class conscious or something.

I don't think it that would be class consciousness - the key to class consciousness is exactly that it is about class. It is about common shared interests and opponents. It's nothing to do with the hyper-individualist lone wolf gunman/terrorist.

It might play some role in anarchism and propaganda of the deed but I'm not sure that's at play in any of these cases.

Sadly I think class consciousness is still declining (in part slowing growth probably hurts here) and still more atomised, zero sum views.

I do not know why the left doesn't seem to do these sorts of things outside of mob violence during protests gone nasty. So far we don't have antifa assassins gunning down CEOs and politicians.

There's periods of that type of violence - anarchists in the late 19th century, nihilists in Tsarist Russia, the years of lead in Europe. The more I've read about this the more it feels not a million miles from the sort of action by nihilists.

FWIW and for all the talk of the 30s, I find myself thinking there's a lot of echoes of the 1890s (which sort of makes sense Gilded Age economic outcomes producing Gilded Age political trends? ) - which isn't necessarily much more reassuring.

But hey we might be headed that way. Really ever since the Cold War ended the people in the United States have been fed up and want country to change. But nothing really seems to.

I think there's something to Timothy Shenk's argument that in effect the traditional re-alignments every thirty years or so in American politics sort of stopped in the 60s. Neither side was able to win as completely as previous re-alignments/moments of parties building durable legislative and executive majorities have. So politics has become more heated and polarised precisely as (and because) it's become less able to resolve.

Not sure I'm fully sold as basically every developed democracy has a similar story of the traditional part of the left being taken over by educated, higher income, more urban and suburban voters and losing their traditional vote. There's variations and specific factors in each country but I think there's a structural shift going on (and I've got some ideas but I'm not really sure what structural shift is or what's causing it). I think one side effect is that it does often make those parties small-c conservative which is not a great place to be when, as you say, people want (and are voting for) change.

[PJL]

Yeah, get the feeling humanity is on a doom loop, and I can't see how we can get out of it. In some respects the Cold War was still worse but at least then we all knew the dangers and the Damoclean knife of nuclear MAD kept everyone's minds in focus and there at least felt there was something to hope / live for.

[Grey Fox]

The rich have succeeded on taking complete control of the west. They do not fear anymore.

[HVC]

The rich have succeeded on taking complete control of the west. They do not fear anymore.

Is there a time when they didn't have complete control? Stone Age?

[garbon]

This might be the gloomiest strand of conversation in the off topic thread.

[Sheilbh]

Is there a time when they didn't have complete control? Stone Age?

Parts of the twentieth century - wealth destroyed in two world wars and constrained in democratic societies by mass political mobilisation.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I do not know why the left doesn't seem to do these sorts of things outside of mob violence during protests gone nasty. So far we don't have antifa assassins gunning down CEOs and politicians.

The leftwing of course did do this (and probably still does/will do that again). Most of us are, after all, old enough to at least have heard of the various far left terrorist groups targeting businessmen and politicians during the latter half of last century (RAF, CCC, Brigate Rosse, 17N, AD, GRAPO, etc etc)... And that's just Europe.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The rich have succeeded on taking complete control of the west. They do not fear anymore.

On the other hand: we're seen over the past few weeks that control can slip away very fast too.