[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[HVC]

Not sure about the ones that immigrate,  but their kids probably feel a sense of longing for a culture they don't really understand. All my canadian cousins are in folk dancing groups, for example, but barely speak portuguese. So they get to dress up and play at being portuguese. Kind of like that, but with more explosions.

[crazy canuck]

Freeland did not do well answering questions about the GST holiday in the Senate finance committee hearing.

There is some hope the Senate fills it down. If it gets sent back to parliament, there won't be time to implement the Christmas gift. The liberals want to give to Canadians and so hopefully this holiday from the GST will be no more.

Here's a gifted link describing what occurred during the Senate committee hearing.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/519974dc5e28f762a87fb14c1570523f4fb873adfcfcb945043907ccc3c41650/N7VKIDGL5ZCRFDHSHTJ4R63DKU/

[Barrister]

While there is undoubtedly an undercurrent of islamophobia informing that latest stunt, let's just remind ourselves that the event that prompted it was a primary school were a clique of eleven teachers more or less remade the program, deciding that some subjects - such as ethics, sexuality and adjudicated access to resources according to matters like whether a woman speech therapist, was allowed to intervene in the classroom of a male teacher. 

Fair.

Sounded like there was a real issue there.

It just seemed like "banning public prayer" was using a sledgehammer to kill an ant.

[Barrister]

What's the reason behind muslim immigrants being more religious once they're in the West compared to at home? Genuine question.

I've been to many muslim countries. People drink and screw and no one gives a fuck when the muezzin calls for prayer.

I think that's a fairly frequent phenomenon.  That the diaspora community is more fervent than the people who stayed behind.  No statistics to back it up, just anecdotal.

[Sheilbh]

What's the reason behind muslim immigrants being more religious once they're in the West compared to at home? Genuine question.

I've been to many muslim countries. People drink and screw and no one gives a fuck when the muezzin calls for prayer.

I grew up in the Highlands and went to various Gaelic cultural events (as my Irish parents were very keen for obvious reasons). Our local Gaelic, bagpipe and Highland dancing teachers were Canadian expats who were there working in the oil industry

I know what you mean though - and I think that is part of it. I think there's a culture shock and a degree of wanting an identity - with mosques and religious groups providing a ready network with an identity on offer. On culture shock - I was at a very boozy party in Istanbul around this time last year with Palestinians, Lebanese, Bangladeshis (basically via a friend who works in the NGO/international organisation sector) - I wonder if part of it is that Turkey is the shallow end of the pool in a culture shock compared to, say, Quebec. I also think that is slightly dependent on the ability of the new society to accommodate and integrate expressions of those new identities - so I think if it is easier to be x and Muslim then that will happen organically, if that's challenging then I think you will repel people into hardening their own identity because a new one is so hard to create, or they have to give up too much.

But also I think part of it is possibly just that where we see on holidays are different than where migrants come from. Holidays tend to be in tourist centres - so either towns dominated by tourism or big cities. Big cities are looser on the morals always and everywhere. But even then as tourists chances are you see the nicer bits. So from a UK perspective for example a huge number of British Bangladeshis originate specifically form Sylhet (something mad like 90%). Sylhet is a relatively poor, relatively traditional, relatively rural bit of Bangladesh - with a very traditional big plantation economy. That means there's always been more immigration from Sylhet to Britain because Sylhetis were often the people who'd move to the ports and then work as sailors on the merchant fleet. But that economic structure is still there and still a big push factor. So British Bangladeshis are not moving from Dhaka to London, but the provinces to London - and I imagine that's a similar pattern elsewhere because the people who are most likely to want to migrate are probably already going to migrate to and through the big cities on the journey.

While there is undoubtedly an undercurrent of islamophobia informing that latest stunt, let's just remind ourselves that the event that prompted it was a primary school were a clique of eleven teachers more or less remade the program, deciding that some subjects - such as ethics, sexuality and adjudicated access to resources according to matters like whether a woman speech therapist, was allowed to intervene in the classroom of a male teacher.

Yeah there was a similar issue here in Muslim faith schools in Birmingham. We have a national curriculum and there was basically an outside rabble rouser who sparked protests in the Muslim community over the mandatory teaching about LGBT+ issues etc on the curriculum. It was ultimately resolved but there was a tension there.

More shamefully because this just seems to have been memory-holed, there is a religious studies teacher in Lancashire who showed the Charlie Hebdo image as part of his teaching. He'd done this several times in previous years, but a few years ago it caused protests and he was suspended (though the subsequent external review found that he genuinely used it for educational purposes and had not intended to cause offence). He has, for the last three years, basically been living in witness protection under a new identity because of death threats. I find it a bit weird the extent to which we've, as a society, just moved on from that.

[Neil]

And while Christian prayer can sometimes be obvious, it really doesn't have to be

And in fact it shouldn't be.  Matthew 6:5-7.  Mind you, there are advantages to corporate prayer, but there is no showy requirement. 

[viper37]

Trudeau's office at odds with Freeland over spending
Gifted link.

Relations between the Prime Minister's Office and Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland have chilled as tensions grow over the push for politically strategic spending measures such as the GST holiday, multiple sources say, risking the minister missing her pledge to keep the deficit at or below $40.1-billion.

The sources say the idea for a sales-tax break on items such as toys, video games, Christmas trees and alcohol was driven by the Prime Minister's Office (PMO), as was the pledge to send $250 benefit cheques to working Canadians who earned an income of up to $150,000 last year.

The Finance Department viewed the $6.28-billion plan as fiscally unwise, with one source saying Finance officials described the GST holiday as making little economic sense. The sales-tax break has passed in the House of Commons, but the future of the $250 rebate remains unclear, with opposition parties making support for it contingent on it going to more people.

The Globe and Mail spoke to 10 government insiders, high-ranking Liberals and former senior Finance Department officials.
The Globe is not identifying the sources who were not authorized to speak publicly about the tensions between Prime
Minister Justin Trudeau's office and Ms. Freeland and her department.

Five senior Liberal Party veterans and three political staffers confirmed that tensions have risen between Ms. Freeland's office and the PMO over spending. Two of them said it is more pronounced since the summer, but a third source said they couldn't characterize just how serious the divisions were. Others described the relationship as "healthy tensions" between the Finance Minister and PMO, and noted that it's common across governments.

While it is not unusual to have tensions between finance ministers and the PMO, one senior Liberal said the current dynamic appears to be similar to what happened with Ms. Freeland's predecessor, Bill Morneau, before he departed the government in 2020. Mr. Morneau quit amid a public rift with Mr. Trudeau and his office following months of behind-the-scenes pushback from the former finance minister on the level of pandemic spending.

None of the sources are suggesting, however, that the current tensions would lead to the same result as Mr. Morneau. Ms. Freeland has insisted that she intends to stay around and run in the next election. She has denied suggestions that she has been looking for work in the private sector.

[...]

[Neil]

Trudeau has often had issues with finance ministers.  It's odd how finance ministers tend to feel a little more personally responsible for the financial state of the country. 

That said, I really do wonder if Freeland is really planning on spending the entire wilderness period of the Liberal Party in Parliament.  She's got a lot of options, and seems to be held in reasonable regard in the upper echelons of the global policy talking class, despite how poorly things have been going for Canada in recent years.  And given that Joly is putting out ad pieces in American liberal papers and trying to secure the lightweight elements of Trudeau's alliance, her succession to the leadership is by no means secure.

[Barrister]

And while Christian prayer can sometimes be obvious, it really doesn't have to be

And in fact it shouldn't be.  Matthew 6:5-7.  Mind you, there are advantages to corporate prayer, but there is no showy requirement. 

I don't know about "shouldn't be".  I can think of lots of moments of Christian prayer which might be obvious, but not showy.  THink a Catholic making the sign of the cross, or an athlete kneeling on the sideline.

There is something a little bit unsettling about some islamic prayer.  There seems to be this modern sensibility in certain circles of getting a large group of muslims together and praying right in the middle of the street.  It seems to be done as a sign of strength (or some might say intimidation).

But that hardly justifies banning all public displays of prayer.

[Neil]

I don't know about "shouldn't be".  I can think of lots of moments of Christian prayer which might be obvious, but not showy.  THink a Catholic making the sign of the cross, or an athlete kneeling on the sideline.

Ultimately, it's between them and God.  If they're making a show of themselves for their own vanity, then that'll be on them.  I do think it's a bit telling that Jesus told people living in a very densely-packed society (far more than we do today) to go away from others to pray.  But that said, I do have some sympathy for spontaneous prayer.  Somebody going out to the 50-yard line surrounded by cameras, less so. 

There is something a little bit unsettling about some islamic prayer.  There seems to be this modern sensibility in certain circles of getting a large group of muslims together and praying right in the middle of the street.  It seems to be done as a sign of strength (or some might say intimidation).

If that were happening here, I'd certainly want to come down on it. 

[crazy canuck]

kind of like walk for Jesus held this summer in Edmonton?

https://ruwemi.org/walk-4-jesus-edmonton-2024-event-photos/

[Barrister]

I thought this was a joke, but apparently it's true.

Trump posts on Truth social:

It was a pleasure to have dinner the other night with Governor Justin Trudeau of the Great State of Canada. I look forward to seeing the Governor again soon so that we may continue our in depth talks on Tariffs and Trade, the results of which will be truly spectacular for all!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trudeau-governor-great-state-canada-1.7406226

[Grey Fox]

He's become such a good troll. Muks influence or as it always been that way?

[Neil]

kind of like walk for Jesus held this summer in Edmonton?

https://ruwemi.org/walk-4-jesus-edmonton-2024-event-photos/

I'd think of parades a little differently, provided that there's proper permits involved.  But as with any public display of the Christian faith, I'd say that their intent would play a role in what I think of them. 

[Barrister]

I'd think of parades a little differently, provided that there's proper permits involved.  But as with any public display of the Christian faith, I'd say that their intent would play a role in what I think of them. 

I take a fairly moderate Protestant position on such things.

I'm suspicious of anyone of faith who feel they need to actively hide their faith, but am equally suspicious of overly showy or dramatic displays of faith.  Faith should be displayed with a quiet confidence.

But then again - people are free to make asses of themselves too.