[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Maybe the Liberals can also learn that people want somewhere to live more than freedom.

They are sandwiched between the most leftist parties asking for unrestricted immigration that increase the cost of lodging and the rightwing parties asking for an unrestricted economy that increase the cost of lodging.

[viper37]

Unless it comes out Poilievre sacrifices children or something, Trudeau is cooked.

Judging by Trump's victory, I think that would not deter his voters.

The most immediate concern I have is the tariffs Trump puts on trade with us.  But I am less concerned about that now that he won in Michigan and other border states.  Those states might now have more pull with him.

I don't think Trudeau benefits at all from Trump being elected. He can't say Trump is bad and so he can't saying PP is bad by association.

Michigan and other border States are the ones pushing for tariffs.  The big Unions are pro-tariffs.

[crazy canuck]

Link?

[Grey Fox]

Maybe the Liberals can also learn that people want somewhere to live more than freedom.

They are sandwiched between the most leftist parties asking for unrestricted immigration that increase the cost of lodging and the rightwing parties asking for an unrestricted economy that increase the cost of lodging.

That's a wide place to innovate from.

[Barrister]

So when Trump says he wants to put 10-20% tariffs on all imports - does he also mean oil?

That would seem kind of insane, given how the price of gasoline is so politically sensitive.

[viper37]

So when Trump says he wants to put 10-20% tariffs on all imports - does he also mean oil?

That would seem kind of insane, given how the price of gasoline is so politically sensitive.

If you're trying to decode what Trump really wants, you're going to go insane.

But Canada would be wise to seek other markets for our exports and (re)develop refining capabilities in Canada.

[Barrister]

So when Trump says he wants to put 10-20% tariffs on all imports - does he also mean oil?

That would seem kind of insane, given how the price of gasoline is so politically sensitive.

If you're trying to decode what Trump really wants, you're going to go insane.

But Canada would be wise to seek other markets for our exports and (re)develop refining capabilities in Canada.

Problem is both of those options would take a lot more than 4 years.

The Trans-Mountain Pipeline expansion (which again - just expanding an existing pipeline) took well over 10 years to build.  So same problem if we want to expand petroleum exports to Europe or Asia - it'll take a lot more than 4 years.

But the thing is - same thing is true for the US.  While they're now a net exporter of petroleum, they still import a shit-ton of it - because their own refineries are set up for the majority-Canadian imports they get.  They can't just turn a switch and stop importing Canadian petroleum either.

[viper37]

So when Trump says he wants to put 10-20% tariffs on all imports - does he also mean oil?

That would seem kind of insane, given how the price of gasoline is so politically sensitive.

If you're trying to decode what Trump really wants, you're going to go insane.

But Canada would be wise to seek other markets for our exports and (re)develop refining capabilities in Canada.

Problem is both of those options would take a lot more than 4 years.

The Trans-Mountain Pipeline expansion (which again - just expanding an existing pipeline) took well over 10 years to build.  So same problem if we want to expand petroleum exports to Europe or Asia - it'll take a lot more than 4 years.

But the thing is - same thing is true for the US.  While they're now a net exporter of petroleum, they still import a shit-ton of it - because their own refineries are set up for the majority-Canadian imports they get.  They can't just turn a switch and stop importing Canadian petroleum either.

Of course it does take more than 4 years.

But we just had the evidence that Trump wasn't just a one off blip.  It's a hard tendancy: Americans are over with democracy and free trade.

We need to adapt and we need to start now.

We need a plan to stop illegal immigration, we need to develop new markets, we need to count the US out as a reliable economic and military partner.  That's the new reliaty.

When the British took over Canada, they started building forts right after the American independence war, in case the Americans would try to invade again.  Fort Lévis, for example, never got to be used.  It took years to be built.  Fort Ingall is another one.  Never saw a canon or musket ball.  But the British tought the Americans would invade again.  (They kinda did after their little Civil War, but it wasn't officially sanctionned).

We need to plan for the worst, and the worst is a US pull out of NATO and NORAD and the disintegration of NAFTA.

We can't take anything for granted with Republicans and Republicans have seized power the next generation or two.

Adapt or die.

We are alone with an unpredictable neighbor that can decide right on January 21st to send a missile strike on Iran and send the prices of oil spiraling.  Better get used to it.

[Barrister]

Geography kind of forces us to be friends and trading partners though.  We literally can't decouple our economy from the US - far too much trade goes across the border.

We have free trade deals with dozens of countries now - but still the US takes the large majority of our products.  SImply because it's much easier to just ship something across the 49th parallel, rather than ship it across the globe.

[Grey Fox]

I am also worried about US tariffs towards China. I fear that distributors and companies, especially electronics, will just raise the Canadian price by the same %. It's going to be a brand new situation having electronics in Canada be priced at a lower price than in the USA.

[viper37]

Geography kind of forces us to be friends and trading partners though.  We literally can't decouple our economy from the US - far too much trade goes across the border.

I'm not denying it.

You just have to convince Harper's new friend of that.

[Barrister]

Internal report describes a 'cesspool of racism' in the federal public service
Top public servant calls the findings 'deeply concerning'

David Thurton · CBC News · Posted: Nov 08, 2024 3:58 PM MST | Last Updated: November 8

An internal report on workplace racism and harassment at the highest levels of the federal public service shows that not even the federal government's top executives are immune to the problem.

The government-funded report on the experiences of Black public servants in the senior ranks of government — obtained by CBC News — includes first-hand accounts of racist remarks, harassment, intimidation and threats that have harmed the mental health of public servants, especially Black women.

"Crucially, Black women detailed workplace conflicts so severe that they led to chronic depression, the use of antidepressant medications, and suicide attempts," the report says.

The report also documents instances of Black public servants being called the N-word at work, sexual harassment and even threats of physical violence. It also raises concerns about internal complaint processes being weaponized against Black executives.

The report was initiated by the Black Executives Network, a support group for Black executives in the federal public service. The network is funded by multiple government departments.

CBC obtained a copy of the report and an email from the country's top public servant — Clerk of the Privy Council John Hannaford — addressing the report's findings and providing a preliminary response plan.

"What is relayed in the report is deeply concerning and we are distressed to think that some members of the Black executive community have reported that they have lived or are living through these kinds of experiences," Hannaford said in the email.

Hannaford and several other senior public servants sent the email to all deputy ministers and the Black Executives Network.

Saint Mary's University senior researcher Rachel Zellars authored the peer-reviewed report. Zellars, a lawyer, frequently undertakes research and training for the federal government.

"As a researcher who has conducted over a thousand interviews with public servants since 2019, these interviews are collectively the most distressing that I have witnessed and recorded," Zellars says in the report.

The study interviewed more than 100 current and former Black public servants who occupied senior or executive roles in Canada's public service.

Threats of violence
The report lays out allegations made by Black executives — whose names, positions and departments were withheld from the report. Executives spoke about how they were threatened with physical violence during their careers.

"One former executive shared how a white colleague raised a chair at him and threatened to 'beat the N-word out of him' during a meeting with other participants," the report details. "Strikingly, no one in the meeting room intervened on his behalf."

In another episode cited in the report, a public servant said a colleague "in anger ... threw something at her."

The report says 62 per cent of respondents reported instances of workplace harassment or intimidation, or threats of reputational harm made by supervisors or senior leaders.

"One Black male executive, with a high level of specialization, described his work environment as a 'cesspool of racism,'" says the report, adding the executive reported often having to tell people he obtained his position through "merit" and not because of his race.

In their email, Hannaford and the other civil service chiefs vowed to take action.

"We are committed to ensuring that we address these issues and will personally review the report and recommendations to make sure that we implement actions that bring lasting change," they wrote.

The Treasury Board Secretariat, the human resources arm of the federal public service, issued a statement Friday that did not go as far as Hannaford's email in acknowledging what the report uncovered.

The statement said a preliminary response plan has been developed and Hannaford will be meeting with Zellars, executives and the deputy ministers that lead core government departments next week.

The report says many Black executives reported career stagnation — spending years in acting positions or training subordinates who eventually are promoted above them.

"I was called for 911 situations, but only ever allowed to act," the report quotes one female respondent as saying. "I never once got the positions I acted in."

Forty-two per cent of English speaking Black public servants reported struggles in securing the language training they need to advance in their careers.

One Black female executive told the author of the report that her "Quebecois director" suggested she not learn French at the expense of the department.

"She stated that she learned 'English on her own by reading in English and sleeping with Anglophone men,'" reads one line of the report.

Class-action alleges decades of discrimination
The report is landing as many Black public servants are seeking the Federal Court's clearance to sue the federal government.

A proposed class-action lawsuit — launched in 2020 — alleges Black public servants have endured decades of systemic racism and discrimination. The lawsuit alleges that since the 1970s, roughly 30,000 Black employees have lost out on opportunities and benefits afforded to others because of their race.

It seeks $2.5 billion in compensation for economic hardship and a mental health plan for employees' pain and trauma. Plaintiffs also want a plan to diversify the federal labour pool.

The case is currently before a Federal Court judge in Toronto, who is expected to rule on whether to certify the class-action.

WATCH | Black-class action plaintiff says the report brought him to tears

Black class-action plaintiff reacts to internal report on racism in public service

4 days ago
Duration2:06
Nicholas Marcus Thompson, CEO of the Black Class Action Secretariat, says he 'came to tears at points reading the report' on workplace racism and harassment at the highest levels of the Canadian public service.
"I came to tears at points reading the report, hearing the stories of so many women, who can be my mother, who can be my grandmother ... hearing their pain and suffering for so long while so many look on and not do anything about it," said Nicholas Marcus Thompson, the lead plaintiff in the proposed class action.

"That is the horrific experience of many Black workers."

The report offers multiple recommendations, including a zero tolerance policy on anti-Black racism, mandatory training, coaching for Black public servants and the establishment of a "Black Equity Commissioner" with a watchdog role within government.

The report also calls for greater accountability for senior leaders who "failed to acknowledge and challenge managers' antiblack treatment towards Black executives."

This is not the first report from Zellars about workplace racism and harassment in the federal public service.

A report she drafted that was released in July concluded that Black, Indigenous and racialized employees in the Privy Council Office are regularly subjected to a culture of "racial stereotyping, microaggression and verbal violence."

The Privy Council Office's 1,200 employees make up the lead branch of the civil service, providing support for the prime minister and cabinet in executing policy directives across the federal government.

That July report said Black employees reported managers using the N-word "comfortably in their presence" and later expressing surprise after being told it's a term of contempt for Black people.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/racism-federal-public-service-black-1.7378963

So I'm a long-time public servant - including a time I spent in the Federal public service (most of my career has been with Alberta however).  I just really have a hard time accepting this entire article at face value.  With the opening paragraph "An internal report on workplace racism and harassment at the highest levels of the federal public service shows that not even the federal government's top executives are immune to the problem".

It just in no way matches with my experience as a public servant - that the public service is hyper-aware of these kind of racism/sexism issues.

So the one troubling story is the supervisor "threatening with a chair to beat the n-word out of someone".  I really can't put a positive spin on that short of someone thinking it was a total joke.

But beyond that?

French language training.  Yeah that's an issue, but for every Federal public servant.  If you want to rise above a certain level you need to be bilingual.  French language training can be available, but it's very expensive (they ship you off to Quebec for months) and is definitely not available to everyone who wants it.

I found "throwing something" at someone in anger very imprecise.  Something like a piece of paper?

Same for promotions.  I can tell you I've acted in positions and then not gotten the position.  I've trained people who have gone on to go higher than me.  To a certain extent that can just be life.

As for depression - again not entirely uncommon for people to go on stress leaves - in particular in unionized positions.

As for use of the n-word - in particular if it's a francophone, the use of that word can be confusing if you're not hyper-focused on US cultural politics.  I had a trial a few weeks ago where that word came up a fair bit - as used between two white guys of Polish heritage (soft R).  It obviously is used between black people with no offence being meant.  It's not impossible to imagine some public servant somewhere not realizing they shouldn't use it.

But I should say - I wasn't there for any of these incidents.  My time in the public service has been in very specific environments (Edmonton and Whitehorse).  So maybe I could be completely wrong in how I'm interpreting this article.

[Zoupa]

As for use of the n-word - in particular if it's a francophone, the use of that word can be confusing if you're not hyper-focused on US cultural politics.  I had a trial a few weeks ago where that word came up a fair bit - as used between two white guys of Polish heritage (soft R).  It obviously is used between black people with no offence being meant.  It's not impossible to imagine some public servant somewhere not realizing they shouldn't use it.

What are you talking about my dude. I don't get what that francophone bit has to do with anything, and it is actually impossible to imagine a public servant somewhere not realizing they shouldn't use it.

[Barrister]

As for use of the n-word - in particular if it's a francophone, the use of that word can be confusing if you're not hyper-focused on US cultural politics.  I had a trial a few weeks ago where that word came up a fair bit - as used between two white guys of Polish heritage (soft R).  It obviously is used between black people with no offence being meant.  It's not impossible to imagine some public servant somewhere not realizing they shouldn't use it.

What are you talking about my dude. I don't get what that francophone bit has to do with anything, and it is actually impossible to imagine a public servant somewhere not realizing they shouldn't use it.

So if you're very online (which I am!) you know you should never, ever use the n-word.

But if you're not so online that may not be something you're as aware of.  As seen by the two polish dudes I was dealing with - seemed to think nothing of using between themselves.

As for Francophone - I just imagine it's twice as difficult to follow the nuances of which words can and can't be used - when it's not your first language.

[Grey Fox]

Interestingly, it's also verbotten to use the french n-word.