[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

So I try to not get too "legal" on Twitter, but I thought I advanced what was a completely uncontroversial point - that if a client confesses to their lawyer the lawyer can still represent them, they can still argue for "not guilty", but only on the basis of "the Crown/government hasn't proved the case".  In particular - if you know your client is guilty you can't advance an affirmative defence like "no, it was actually Mr X who did this crime".

A whole bunch of US attorneys jumped down my throat like I was crazy - who cares what your client says, why would you believe them anyways, you have to do everything under your power to defend your client, etc.

I remember I was taught that this is actually a serious tactical decision to make between a client and lawyer - if the lawyer asks "OK so tell me what happened" you might get a really useful defence you want to pursue, or you might be limited in what you can do when your client confesses to you.

So that's exactly my understanding too.

Basically you can undermine the prosecution's case but you can't really advance your own because you'd be misleading the court. But I've always slightly had the impression (purely based on US TV ) that doing your utmost for your client is the absolute obligation for a lawyer in the US. Here, and in Canada by the sounds of it, it's only one of your duties - you also can't mislead the court, can't engage in conduct that would bring the profession into disrepute etc. And if that creates a conflict between those duties then you need to step back for professional reasons.

Although obviously it plays out slightly differently for solicitors than barristers - because solicitors aren't actually advocating/speaking at the court except through witness statements.

Yeah it was an interesting dalliance into a whole different perspective.  I didn't want to get too deep into it but it seemed like it was a clear split between the US/Canadian side of things.

Slightly related - in my very brief defence counsel career I was representing a guy on refusing to provide a breath sample/drunk driving.  We potentially had a defence to the refusal charge.  I gleefully told me client "and then you can take the stand and tell them how you weren't drunk".  My client, who was more aware of legal ethics than I was that day, said "uhh... I can't do that".  I was like  yup I inadvertantly was trying to suborn perjury.

Well I'm glad you avoided the downward slope to Saul Goodman.

So I "learned" criminal law in the 90s in Canada (I put in quotation marks because I took the bare minimum in crim law cases back then).  The massive legal ethics case back then was the Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka case.  Bernardo/Homolka were under suspicion, even arrest, for the abduction, sexual assault, and murder of two girls (including Homolka's sister).  There was circumstantial evidence, but nothign direct.

Anyways, Bernardo's house had been searched by police multiple times.  Bernardo told his lawyer that they had videotaped the crimes, and where the videotapes were hidden.  The lawyer then decided it would be a great idea to go into the house and retrieve the videotapes.

Problem is - this is evidence tampering.

Homolka then decided to cut a plea deal with the Crown.  This is HIGHLY unusual in Canada (my 20 years I've never seen it happen), but in exchange she got a lighter sentence.

In the mean time the lawyer realized he had fucked up.

No wait - I googled the details.  The lawyer fucking retired, and left the tapes for his successor.  The successor then got advice and turned them over to police, albeit anonymously.

So anyways I'd like to think a little ignorance of professional ethics from a 2 year lawyer practicing in northern Alberta (and this was extremely northern Alberta, FN community near the NWT border) is perhaps a tiny bit excusable if very experienced crim defence attorneys could fuck up this badly.

[Barrister]

Liberals defeated in two by-elections.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-byelection-montreal-winnipeg-1.7321730

So the Montreal riding is getting the most attention, probably for good reason.  It was Paul Martin's former riding, held by the Liberals almost continuously (except for the 2011 NDP "orange wave").  BQ candidate now elected.  Obviously I would have preferred the Conservatives to come in better than 4th, but the Conservatives winning that riding would be one of the signs of the apocalypse.

I do want to talk about the NDP win in Winnipeg's Elmwood-Transcona.  It's a north-east riding, very working class.  Very much an NDP stronghold.  The former NDP MP, Daniel Blaikie, is son of the long-time MP Bill Blaikie who had that seat forever.  I was also the campaign manager for the provincial Elmwood riding in the 1999 provincial election (and the fact they made a 24 year old law student a campaign manager shoes how little chance we had in that riding).  So the fact the Conservatives came within 4 points is actually a good sign.


By the way I checked the official results - what's with these jackasses who insist on trying to put like 30-40 candidates on the ballot in Montreal?  None of them got any meaningful votes, although given how close the results were (28% BQ, 27% Libs, 26% NDP) I guess it could have made a difference, but what exactly is the point they're trying to prove?

https://enr.elections.ca/ElectoralDistricts.aspx?ed=2106&lang=e

[Grey Fox]

The point they are trying to make, and failing, is that FTTP is undemocratic.

[crazy canuck]

A moderately long read from the Globe.  An article by an economist explaining the impact of Canada's declining productivity and its impact on the middle class.  Regardless of your political strip, I think you will want to read this and be concerned about what you have read.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/519974dc5e28f762a87fb14c1570523f4fb873adfcfcb945043907ccc3c41650/MIV563FXNFAHJEUBE27PHHN434/

[Zoupa]

Instead, both our government and our businesses have opted for a model in which they underpay overqualified Canadians to work with barely sufficient equipment and technology to avoid all risk associated with buying, using and developing new technologies and products.

The result is stagnant wages, poor-quality jobs, skills mismatches, continuously declining-in-quality public services and 48 years of missed economic growth opportunities.

[crazy canuck]

Yep, that is definitely the take home message

[crazy canuck]

The Bloc is playing the nonconfidence card pretty well - "pass our legislation or we vote with the Conservatives to bring you down".

It will be interesting to see how the Liberals and NDP react.

[viper37]

The point they are trying to make, and failing, is that FTTP is undemocratic.

No more than any other system.

NDP & QS supporters always insist that Cuba and Venezuela are more democratic than we are.  The more extreme of the bunch will tell you that the USSR was not a dictatorship under Lenine.

[viper37]

A moderately long read from the Globe.  An article by an economist explaining the impact of Canada's declining productivity and its impact on the middle class.  Regardless of your political strip, I think you will want to read this and be concerned about what you have read.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/519974dc5e28f762a87fb14c1570523f4fb873adfcfcb945043907ccc3c41650/MIV563FXNFAHJEUBE27PHHN434/

So... Too much immigration by the Liberals?  Only to satisfy McDonald's and Tim Horton's business model?  And on a sideline, temporary foreign workers for our farms because we can't fathom to pay more for our local food?

[viper37]

Norad and Pentagon answers Danielle Smith:
"No, we are not spreading chemicals over Alberta".

Totally fine suggestion from a totally normal politician.

[viper37]

Lack of ambition in Canada creating '600-pound beaver in the room,' Shopify president says

The president of e-commerce giant Shopify Inc. is calling on Canada to address a problem he calls "the 600-pound beaver in the room."


That problem is a lack of ambition that Harley Finkelstein described as hampering the growth and long-term success of Canadian companies, the country's tech ecosystem and its broader economy.

"This idea of injecting more ambition into the Canadian psyche, of not going for bronze but going for gold, of owning the podium is unequivocally necessary," he said late Tuesday during an interview hosted by astronaut Chris Hadfield at the Elevate tech conference in Toronto.

While they first delved into Finkelstein's previous DJ career, why he starts his day with meditation and Shopify's views on remote work (great as long as staff still gather regularly), the pair eventually got down to business, discussing the state of Canadian tech.

The conversation saw Finkelstein compare startups in Canada, where he lives and runs Shopify, with their rivals in the U.S., where he went to school.

The difference between the two, he pointed out, is that the lack of ambition in Canada has left the country's startups with a reputation for being acquired, often by their U.S. counterparts which are known for swallowing up buzzy businesses.
"I want more Canadian companies to be headquartered here," Finkelstein said. "I don't want to be a country of branch offices."

When Hadfield asked Finkelstein what advice he would give the prime minister to address the problem, the tech executive's advice was simple: ask those in the sector how he can help.
Such conversations Finkelstein has already had with others in the industry have turned up people who want policy changes around shipping goods and others who need access to more electricity to power their manufacturing operations.
"But in some cases, it may just be about getting out of the way," Finkelstein said.

His remarks capped off opening night for Elevate, which will run through Thursday and is expected to draw some of the industry's biggest names to Toronto to talk rapid advances in artificial intelligence, the country's push toward open banking and how to handle the cybersecurity threats of tomorrow.

Ahead of Finkelstein's talk, Olympians Phil Wizard and Rosie MacLennan, "Dragons' Den" star Arlene Dickinson and executives from TD Bank and Mastercard took the stage.

The hot topic among speakers was the state of Canadian tech, with the head of one of Canada's more prominent venture capital funds using his appearance to lament the country's lack of willingness to take risks.
Jordan Jacobs, co-founder and managing partner of Radical Ventures, said he notices that cautious behaviour crops up when local companies are seeking funding or looking for people to adopt their technology.
"There's a Canadian hesitance to go first, which makes sense because traditionally you want to be a second mover and let someone else make a mistake," he said.

But when it comes to AI, Jacobs argued being second can be a detriment because there is a compounding factor, where the technology speedily improves and becomes more personalized based on the users.
"If you're a second mover, you're not just 90 days behind the person who went 90 days before," he said. "So we need organizations, I think, that are good at taking some risks."
Jacobs' point of view was cemented during his decades leading tech companies like Layer 6, which develops machine learning systems. It was purchased by TD Bank, reportedly for $100-million, in 2018.

He co-founded Radical Ventures, a venture capital firm that focuses on AI and other "deeply disruptive" tech, in 2017. Its portfolio includes Toronto AI darling Cohere, self-driving vehicle company Waabi, chip firm Untether AI and health AI startup Signal1, whose co-founder joined Jacobs onstage.

The two speakers called on Canada to get more comfortable with risk-taking.
In building Signal1, Mara Lederman said she's seen the pitfalls of Canada being too conservative, particularly at hospitals.
"We have patients in the emergency department getting care in hallways, their privacy is being breached every day when that happens," she said.

"We have to shift our attitude a little bit that there are real risks to not innovating across sectors and across our economy, and I think that will help change the conversation a little bit."

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure an increase in ambition will compensate for the vast difference in access to capital US companies have.

[Barrister]

I couldn't resist posting this recent poll:

https://338canada.com/20240929-mai.htm

Conservatives - 44%
NDP - 20%
Liberals - 19%
BQ - 8%
Green - 4%
PPC - 3%

That's right - Liberals in third.  Seat projections potentially have the Liberals in 4th place in Parliament with those kind of results (BQ vote is highly efficient as it's only in Quebec, Liberals vote tends to be evenly spread - which makes it easier to get a majority, but when it drops too low it drops everywhere).

Just one poll, margin of error and all that.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, I think the NDP are coming to the realization they should bring the government down now to maximize their seats in the next Parliament.

[Barrister]

Yeah, I think the NDP are coming to the realization they should bring the government down now to maximize their seats in the next Parliament.

So all the politicians are of course being driven by poll numbers - that's what they do.  Liberals (who remember called an early election in 2021, only two years since the last one) are insisting they have a mandate to govern.  Conservatives, seeing blood in the water, are of course insisting on an election now.

BQ, also seeing an opening, attempt to position themselves as making demands of the Liberals to increase OAS funding by 10%.  That of course would be hugely expensive, and not just one year but for every subsequent year. 

NDP though - so I think they smartly ended the confidence agreement with the Liberals, even if I think they did so very ineptly.  They know most of their potential voters don't want a Conservative government (though not all - there are NDP - Conservative switch voters, in particular out west) so they don't want to be seen as handing power over to the Conservatives, but seen as being "Liberals in a hurry" is damaging to their brand as well right now.

One of the more cynical talking points out there is to comment how many MPs, Singh included, will only get a vested pension if this Parliament lasts into 2025.  Not sure that has much impact, but perhaps not zero.