Israel-Hamas War 2023

[HVC]

People also use it for Bad Jews^TM

[Razgovory]

Zionists being a bunch of cunts is the driving force of the anti zionist movement. No conspiracies required (which makes those who do go in for them extra loopy) . Reality does enough.

Fake news, misinformation, and all that sort of thing is an issue in the world of today no doubt. Though it's not the core issue. And in the west it's usually Muslims that are the target.

And people who think Zionists are cunts often think so because they believe in a conspiracy theories.  If what the zionists do is actually enough to engender such hatred, why come up with conspiracy theories?  If the leaders and organizations that make up the antizionist movement are so untethered from reality as to believe these theories how can achieve reality-based solutions?

Who do you think makes up the core of the antizionist movement?

[HVC]

People love conspiracies though, it's not a special trait for those with a dislike of Israel or its policies.

[Razgovory]

People love conspiracies though, it's not a special trait for those with a dislike of Israel or its policies.

People really love conspiracies about Jews.  And these conspiracies have had terrible consequences in history.  People who believe the moon landing was a hoax or think the JFK was killed by the CIA didn't ethnically cleanse England or launch the Spanish Inquisition.  

[Admiral Yi]

People love conspiracies though, it's not a special trait for those with a dislike of Israel or its policies.

Looking at history though, it does seem Jews have been the earliest and possibly most frequent target of them, possibly rivaled by witches.  And if we limit it to modern times the most well known conspiracy theories don't result in violence, unlike those directed at Jews/Israel.

3 seconds too slow

[Josquius]

And people who think Zionists are cunts often think so because they believe in a conspiracy theories.  If what the zionists do is actually enough to engender such hatred, why come up with conspiracy theories?  If the leaders and organizations that make up the antizionist movement are so untethered from reality as to believe these theories how can achieve reality-based solutions?

Who do you think makes up the core of the antizionist movement?

You're still doing it.
Plenty of people are not happy with Israels actions without needing to get involved with conspiracy theories. I'd say the majority have nothing to do with these conspiracy theories you're so weirdly into.
If you think otherwise then prove it.

Again to come back to the point. Why is it somehow OK for  Israelis to continuously seize Palestinian land? - against the text of Israeli law even.
Is your argument really that this is OK because some nutters think the Jews are trying to drink the blood of Christian babies?

Zionist
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
1.
a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.
"the artist's parents were committed Zionists"
2.
(in southern Africa) a member of any of a group of independent Churches which practise a form of Christianity incorporating elements of traditional African beliefs.
adjective
1.
relating to or advocating Zionism.
"mainstream Zionist thinking"
2.
relating to a group of independent Churches in southern Africa which practise a form of Christianity incorporating elements of traditional African beliefs.

I'm not sure why you posted this.
Its clearly not south African religious groups I dislike.

[Admiral Yi]

Raz and Squeeze: could you both please drop your insistence on defining the "anti-Zionist movement"  as this or that?  It's obvious to me you're talking about two separate things, Squeeze's bobo friends protesting in the streets and campuses on the one hand and Hamas and their friends on the other.

[HVC]

People love conspiracies though, it's not a special trait for those with a dislike of Israel or its policies.

People really love conspiracies about Jews.  And these conspiracies have had terrible consequences in history.  People who believe the moon landing was a hoax or think the JFK was killed by the CIA didn't ethnically cleanse England or launch the Spanish Inquisition. 

I mean people have been killed over pedo ring conspiracies and the like, bit I do get what you say that Jewish ones tend to have a more violent reaction.

[viper37]

I don't give a shit about finding and watching this video so let's just believe you. So a crazy person believes something so totally insane that it makes regular conspiracy theories look sensible.
...so what?
How is this remotely relevant to the situation?
You consistently seem to see this whole thing more in terms of points scoring over people with a different point of view to you by tying them to irrelevant idiots. Rather than the actual problems in the middle east.

Conspiracy theories ARE a problem in the Middle East.  These conspiracy theories are being pushed by Electronic Intifada and Greyscale, big sources for the Antizionist left.  Mahmoud Abbas pushes Holocaust conspiracy theories (they were his doctoral thesis back in his Moscow days), the founding document of Hamas names the Elders of the Protocols of Zion as a source and denounces the Lion's Club as an agent of "World Zionism".  These theories, as outlandish as they seem, are a driving force in the antizionist movement.

Here's another conspiracy theory:
Palestinians bitter homecoming

[Razgovory]

And people who think Zionists are cunts often think so because they believe in a conspiracy theories.  If what the zionists do is actually enough to engender such hatred, why come up with conspiracy theories?  If the leaders and organizations that make up the antizionist movement are so untethered from reality as to believe these theories how can achieve reality-based solutions?

Who do you think makes up the core of the antizionist movement?

You're still doing it.
Plenty of people are not happy with Israels actions without needing to get involved with conspiracy theories. I'd say the majority have nothing to do with these conspiracy theories you're so weirdly into.
If you think otherwise then prove it.

Again to come back to the point. Why is it somehow OK for  Israelis to continuously seize Palestinian land? - against the text of Israeli law even.
Is your argument really that this is OK because some nutters think the Jews are trying to drink the blood of Christian babies?

Zionist
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
1.
a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.
"the artist's parents were committed Zionists"
2.
(in southern Africa) a member of any of a group of independent Churches which practise a form of Christianity incorporating elements of traditional African beliefs.
adjective
1.
relating to or advocating Zionism.
"mainstream Zionist thinking"
2.
relating to a group of independent Churches in southern Africa which practise a form of Christianity incorporating elements of traditional African beliefs.

I'm not sure why you posted this.
Its clearly not south African religious groups I dislike.

Was it two or three days ago that I said that taking land in the West Bank is not good?  You constantly attribute maximalism to me, and I'm not sure why.  I'm not too vocal about opposing it admittedly, since it seems somewhat hypocritical.  I live in a colonial-settler country, and like the vast majority of Americans I'm not interested in giving any of that land back.  Even among those who go on about living on "stolen land", none of them are giving up their own homes.

Still, who do you think is the core of this antizionist movement?

[Razgovory]

Raz and Squeeze: could you both please drop your insistence on defining the "anti-Zionist movement"  as this or that?  It's obvious to me you're talking about two separate things, Squeeze's bobo friends protesting in the streets and campuses on the one hand and Hamas and their friends on the other.

I'd like to know exactly what definition he is using.  I think his idea that the heart of movement is white, middle class Britons who show up for the really big marches who are just there for the moment.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The use of the term "settler-colonialism" is antisemitic, fwiw. It is an entirely constructed language that was developed exclusively to attack Jews, it has no actual history beyond that.

[Razgovory]

I came up with a plan to solve settler colonialism in the USA once and for all.  A 30% income tax on all people of 30% or more European ancestry.  The income from this tax will be divided between the various reservations to buy back their land.  Since a new 30% income tax will bankrupt most people, a lot of land will soon be on the market.  Turtle Island will be decolonized in no time! 

[grumbler]

The use of the term "settler-colonialism" is antisemitic, fwiw. It is an entirely constructed language that was developed exclusively to attack Jews, it has no actual history beyond that.

It's astonishing how ignorant you are on topics like these, Otto.  Settler-colonialism has been a field of study since the late 20th Century.  Almost no one in the field studies Israel.  Everything is not about you.

[Valmy]

Basically this entire hemisphere are settler-colonist states.