The Off Topic Topic

[Valmy]

As someone with a rather unique perspective on this: men need to stop talking, listen, and do better. A lot better. As bad as you may think it is? It is worse. 

Tell me more 

[Sophie Scholl]

I spent 40ish years of my life feeling absolutely safe no matter where I went. I have spent a year getting catcalled, followed, threatened, touched, groped, inappropriately talked to, propositioned, and more. I thought I understood how bad it was before. I thought I was a good "ally". I thought I knew the depths that men went to in pursuit of women. I was wrong.

[Valmy]

I spent 40ish years of my life feeling absolutely safe no matter where I went. I have spent a year getting catcalled, followed, threatened, touched, groped, inappropriately talked to, propositioned, and more. I thought I understood how bad it was before. I thought I was a good "ally". I thought I knew the depths that men went to in pursuit of women. I was wrong.

Ok I believe you. But you seem to blame yourself as being a bad "ally". Some of the stuff you describe is actually illegal to do so it isn't like there is some sense that these men could reasonably understand what they are doing isn't wrong. What should you have done differently in those 40ish years?

[Sophie Scholl]

I meant more as in being in denial of who I really am by putting ally in quotes. 

As to what to do differently? Believe women. Just because you know something to be illegal or wrong doesn't make it so. Especially if such things are more or less socially accepted or at least tolerated. Speak up more when you see guys being creepy or when you see women being uncomfortable or they tell you that they are. You'll never really get it unless you are a woman, but trying to be better and trying to ensure those around you are better is important as heck. Be honest with yourself and what you are or are not doing. Ask women friends/family what you can do better, what you're doing right, or what you're doing wrong. Accept criticism.  That's really basic stuff, but it is a great start! 

[garbon]

I think that's a very kind reading. My first thought would be that I now have a stalker who, a week (and hundreds of deliveries) later still remembers where I live.

Maybe but he is also just a kid thus prone to making well meaning idiotic choices. But sure.

Also it just shows that approaching women, and gay men apparently, will make them think you might be a stalker. So, again, don't fucking do it.

Because it is threatening (though what I quoted I believe was a telling joke). After all, the woman has no recourse to escape. He obviously felt strongly enough to recall or otherwise look up her address again which means he also knows her name. Then he shows up to shoot his shot in a place where she can't actually leave, a place where she should feel safe. It is such a violation of trust and would make one concerned about what will the idiot do next when you refuse him.

[Josquius]

Aware this is the opposite of the usual... But does anyone ever get surprised at how "young" some people are?
I just learned Beyonce is only 42. In my mind she's been around forever and must have been over 50.

[Syt]

Seen on reddit: Apparently this EU election poster for F.D.P. candidate Agnes Strack-Zimmermann reminds people of The Boys' Homelander. I can see it.

[Valmy]

Because it is threatening (though what I quoted I believe was a telling joke). After all, the woman has no recourse to escape. He obviously felt strongly enough to recall or otherwise look up her address again which means he also knows her name. Then he shows up to shoot his shot in a place where she can't actually leave, a place where she should feel safe. It is such a violation of trust and would make one concerned about what will the idiot do next when you refuse him.

Ok yeah that is the activity one should want to participate in. One where you have to consider if the other person has recourse to escape you. Yeah you should approach her at work where at least she can quit her job and become unemployed rather than live in fear you might show up again.

Or approach her in the park, there are other parks in the city if you horrify her so much she never wants to go to that park again. That is the impact you want to have on women as a man.

But the propaganda I was fed before I got on in the internet and saw what women actually thought about men approaching them was: She will be so flattered! What have you got to lose? Go up there and chat with her, she might reject you but at least you will make her day!

You will go up there and say "Hi, I'm George Costanza. I am unemployed and live with my parents" and the she will turn around and say "I'm Victoria, Hi!"

But this was a fucking lie society told me. They hate it and it ruins their day. Women go to gay bars to get away from men approaching them. Like holy shit. My woman friends were encouraging me to engage in this behavior.

Why I had to go to the internet and find the woman only whisper network to get this information is amazing. Thank God for the Internet...I don't say that very often.

[HVC]

You forgot the two rules when approaching women (well, any strangers actually).

1) Be attractive

And

2) Don't be unattractive

[Barrister]

Hmmm... well... I live in a place where bears are fairly frequent. I can tell you that more women are killed by men every year than are killed by bears. I'd wager that the number of incidents of women having had encounters where they felt threatened or scared by a man's behaviour is orders of magnitude greater than those who've had scary encounters with bears. I think most women have felt endangered by a man at some point in there lives; and if they haven't, they know a women who has. I doubt the same is true when it comes to bears.

Perhaps if you calculated the rate of scary encounters and the rate of murders per encounter, men would be statistically safer than bears due to the large number of encounters. But in terms of absolute numbers men have a much higher impact on women's safety than bears.

It seems only natural that this would impact women's threat perception. And it seems pretty silly to be offended by that, IMO.

So there's no doubt that many more women are injured or killed by men then they are by bears.  My crack team of researchers has revealed that on average there are only 40 bear attacks around the world every year.

But also, of course, most women who are killed by men are killed by men they know - not complete strangers.

[Jacob]

Even if we only count women killed by men they don't know, I'm pretty sure the number is greater than 40.

Though, of course, the relevant statistic for the answer to the question is probably the number of women who've felt endangered by men they don't know. And that is a pretty high number it seems.

[Barrister]

Even if we only count women killed by men they don't know, I'm pretty sure the number is greater than 40.

Though, of course, the relevant statistic for the answer to the question is probably the number of women who've felt endangered by men they don't know. And that is a pretty high number it seems.

Around the entire world?  Yeah I bet it's a hell of  a lot higher than 40!  And remember that stat was just bear attacks, not deaths by bear.

But remember my whole take is that some people are really exaggerating the dangerousness of bears, not that people are underestimating the dangerousness of men.

[HVC]

going back to the thread/post about how like 25% think they can take on a elephant, people really underestimate how dangerous animals are. To garbons point, white people might be dangerous too ( ), but animals mess you up. sure only 40 people died, but out of how many encounters? and what types of bear.

congrats on tik tok lady for spurring languish discussion though, beats the Israel thread

[garbon]

Because it is threatening (though what I quoted I believe was a telling joke). After all, the woman has no recourse to escape. He obviously felt strongly enough to recall or otherwise look up her address again which means he also knows her name. Then he shows up to shoot his shot in a place where she can't actually leave, a place where she should feel safe. It is such a violation of trust and would make one concerned about what will the idiot do next when you refuse him.

Ok yeah that is the activity one should want to participate in. One where you have to consider if the other person has recourse to escape you. Yeah you should approach her at work where at least she can quit her job and become unemployed rather than live in fear you might show up again.

Or approach her in the park, there are other parks in the city if you horrify her so much she never wants to go to that park again. That is the impact you want to have on women as a man.

But the propaganda I was fed before I got on in the internet and saw what women actually thought about men approaching them was: She will be so flattered! What have you got to lose? Go up there and chat with her, she might reject you but at least you will make her day!

You will go up there and say "Hi, I'm George Costanza. I am unemployed and live with my parents" and the she will turn around and say "I'm Victoria, Hi!"

But this was a fucking lie society told me. They hate it and it ruins their day. Women go to gay bars to get away from men approaching them. Like holy shit. My woman friends were encouraging me to engage in this behavior.

Why I had to go to the internet and find the woman only whisper network to get this information is amazing. Thank God for the Internet...I don't say that very often.

I'm concerned about engaging further as you seem like you are getting into a place where you famously fly off the handle.

Though not so concern so as to not needle you.

[Eddie Teach]

What if it's a Transbear?  A man that transitioned into a bear.

I think they're called werebears.