Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Time for His Majesty's colony to step up and do what's right, then.

It was cheese and beef - and it's the same reason I've always said that even if the US were interested in trade deals (and since 2016, they're not) it would be impossible.

Changing the ban on hormone beef is politically impossible in this country. You'd unite a coalition of Guardian and Daily Mail readers, Countryfile watchers, people generally concerned about animals (who eat a lot of them). This is still a country that used precious space on an RAF flight out of Kabul to save fucking pets. (I have no strong views on hormone beef or chlorinated chicken - but good luck to any government that wants to try and allow it.)

More broadly it's the problem with the right-wing/libertarian hopes for Brexit. They can now change the rules and scrap loads of EU regulations, but are discovering it's politically very very difficult because British people don't like change/change is difficult here and the substance of a lot of those regulations is quite popular, even with Brexit voters.

Edit: And why I think we'll end up more Lexity - I think British voters are quite persuaded by a "something must be done" approach which will ratchet up regulations/regulatory burdens. The right like to imagine Brits as buccaneering free traders etc etc - in reality I think, as a country, we're fairly comfortable with a lot of regulation.  So I suspect the growth potential will be found outside of EU state aid rules rather than through a deregulatory, small state low tax model.

A reminder that one reason why Brexit has been "inconsequential" is that it hasn't actually happened yet in some areas:

But also because this is the nature of Brexit. It will represent an increase of 0.2% over three years. Which isn't much on the grand schee of things (for example compare it with the impact of recent supply shocks we've seen or the way global prices fluctuate).

But that's Brexit overall. It's not one crashing disaster that will satisfy hard-core remainers with a shuddering gotterdammerung. Each impact is on its own terms inconsequential. It's lots of extra little costs and bits of friction across the economy, which is not distributed equally - some sectors are profoundly hit (agriculture, cars), others not really at all/fairly minimally (services exports - which is something of a mystery for economists at the minute).

[Tamas]

The extensions in trade agreements between Canada and the UK are expiring around now, for example.

Time for His Majesty's colony to step up and do what's right, then.

It is far from clear that a trade agreement with a minor nation standing on its own is the right thing to do.  Now if the UK was still within the EU, they would definitely be a priority to continue to have good trade relations.

Time to do your duty as dutiful subjects, and bend over. Cheers.

[crazy canuck]

The extensions in trade agreements between Canada and the UK are expiring around now, for example.

Time for His Majesty's colony to step up and do what's right, then.

It is far from clear that a trade agreement with a minor nation standing on its own is the right thing to do.  Now if the UK was still within the EU, they would definitely be a priority to continue to have good trade relations.

Time to do your duty as dutiful subjects, and bend over. Cheers.

 

[Sheilbh]

Quite the story - also a fantastically generous(?) description of Grindr.

Also another reminder of just how very, very gay Westminster (and especially Tory Westminster) is - I don't know if it's true of politics in other countries. I see the new French PM and his Foreign Minister (and ex-boyfriend) and think that maybe it is?

Honeytrap sext scandal: Tory MP William Wragg admits leaking phone numbers
'I've hurt people by being weak. I was scared. I'm mortified. I'm so sorry,' says spearphishing attack victim
Aubrey Allegretti, Chief Political Correspondent
Thursday April 04 2024, 7.10pm, The Times

William Wragg handed colleagues' phone numbers to a man he met on a gay dating app

A senior Conservative MP has admitted his involvement in a honeytrap sexting scandal targeting a minister and fellow MPs.

William Wragg, chairman of a Commons select committee, told The Times he handed over the personal phone numbers of colleagues to a man he met on Grindr, a gay dating app.

The vice-chairman of the 1922 committee said he provided the details after sending intimate pictures of himself to the user. Wragg said he was "scared" that the man "had compromising things on me".

Those colleagues — which included several MPs, members of their staff and a political journalist — were sent unsolicited flirtatious messages from senders identifying themselves as "Charlie" or "Abi".

It is understood two MPs responded by sending an explicit picture of themselves.

The incident, which has heightened concerns over the vulnerability of MPs to cyberattacks, is now being investigated by Leicestershire police, which has received a complaint of "malicious communications" against a parliamentarian.

Experts believe it was a case of "spearphishing", a technique used to gather highly personalised, sensitive or compromising material.

The Times approached Wragg after speaking to victims who believed he was involved. The 36-year-old MP for the Greater Manchester seat of Hazel Grove, who is openly gay, said he was "mortified" and apologised for his "weakness".

He told The Times: "They had compromising things on me. They wouldn't leave me alone. They would ask for people. I gave them some numbers, not all of them. I told him to stop. He's manipulated me and now I've hurt other people.

"I got chatting to a guy on an app and we exchanged pictures. We were meant to meet up for drinks, but then didn't. Then he started asking for numbers of people. I was worried because he had stuff on me. He gave me a WhatsApp number, which doesn't work now.

"I've hurt people by being weak. I was scared. I'm mortified. I'm so sorry that my weakness has caused other people hurt."

On Wednesday Politico reported MPs had been sent late-night texts from an unknown number. The sender would explain that they had met years ago, usually in one of the parliamentary bars.

The person identified themselves as either "Charlie" or "Abi", from a phone number with a profile picture featuring a man in a white t-shirt having a meal with a woman in a blue and white dress.

To male MPs targeted, "Charlie" also provided another picture featuring him dressed in a white T-shirt in what appears to be a bar.

Soon into the conversation, men targeted by "Charlie" were sent an explicit picture and asked to reciprocate.

Many blocked "Charlie" or did not reply. However, The Times understands two MPs did respond by sending an explicit picture of themselves.

"Charlie" said he used to work in Parliament and bragged about having had sex with several Conservative and Labour MPs.

When quizzed by one MP on who he had worked for, "Charlie" said he had done an internship with Wragg in 2022. Wragg denied "Charlie" had ever worked for him.

Wragg's connection to the scandal emerged on Wednesday as MPs confided in each other about their suspicions.

Wragg was already planning for a life after parliament, having announced his intention to stand down as an MP after the next election. If there are complaints to Conservative whips, he could face being forced to sit as an independent. Parliament is in recess, meaning Wragg will not return to Westminster for nearly two weeks.

Leicestershire Police said officers were " investigating a report of malicious communications after a number of unsolicited messages were sent to a Leicestershire MP last month".

"They were reported to police on Tuesday 19 March. Inquiries are currently ongoing."

Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the Commons speaker, has written to all MPs and staff to tell them that the parliamentary security department was investigating. Anyone with knowledge of the messages was urged to "come forward ... and share the details and any concerns".

Parliamentary authorities will "work closely with partners in government to analyse and understand the nature of these messages and any related security risk", he said.

Security guidance for mobile phones and wider cyber security advice was also circulated.

A parliamentary spokesperson said: "Parliament takes security extremely seriously and works closely with government in response to such incidents. We provide members and staff with tailored advice, making them aware of security risks and how to manage their digital safety. We are encouraging anyone affected who has concerns to contact the Parliamentary Security Department."


William Wragg out on a country walk. He already plans to leave parliament but will do so now with a shadow over his achievements

Who is Tory MP William Wragg?

As a senior member of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, William Wragg has seen many moments of political drama.

He was one of the most prominent campaigners for Boris Johnson to quit over the Downing Street parties scandal and seemed to relish the bombshell of announcing to the Commons that he had submitted a letter of no-confidence in Liz Truss.

But now Wragg finds himself in the spotlight. Remorseful about his actions, he says he felt compelled to respond to the demands of a person he met on a gay dating app who bombarded him with requests for fellow MPs' phone numbers. He planned to stand down anyway at the next general election, but now risks leaving parliament with a shadow over his record.

Wragg arrived in Westminster fresh-faced and in his twenties. He once said that his "misspent youth was spent getting into parliament". A former teacher, he took the seat of Hazel Grove in Stockport in 2015. He beat the Liberal Democrats and became the first Tory MP there since 1997.

He shunned the ministerial ladder, instead preferring the role of scrutineer. Wragg took over as chairman of the public administration and constitutional affairs committee and enjoyed delving into the world of Whitehall.

He reached a far more influential role as vice-chairman of the 1922 Committee — traditionally known as "the men in grey suits". When a party leader needs telling their time is up, it is the 1922 Committee who do the job. Wragg was part of the collective of MPs who told a defiant Johnson that he had to go.

He also accused Tory whips of blackmail and criticised plans to shield the former MP Owen Paterson from suspension for breaking lobbying rules.

"It's not simply the opposition who should provide scrutiny to government, it's also the governing side who should be able to, in a very healthy way, do that," Wragg told The Guardian last year.

"Being a backbencher is an enormously liberated thing to be, if used accordingly. And I do feel for my colleagues who become ministers."

Now Wragg himself will come under scrutiny. A police investigation into reports of malicious communication is under way, which is likely to halt other inquiries.

But the Commons standards commissioner may decide to open his own investigation once the police matter is dealt with. Similarly, the Tory whips will have to decide whether to continue to let him sit as a Conservative MP.

When reflecting on why he decided to leave parliament at the age of 36, Wragg said he knew there was "a risk of being institutionalised". Succumbing to the darker side of Westminster may suggest he has already left it too late.

Some Tory MPs already saying Wragg should resign over this - and I think they're probably right. I feel sorry for him but he shared his colleagues, their staff and other contacts like a political journalists personal details with someone who he knew was blackmailing honeypot. I feel sorry for him, but...that's not nothing.

Also at the two MPs who were sent nudes by a rando and replied with nudes.

Edit: Just realised that even Tory MPs embroiled in sex scandals are now younger than me

[Valmy]

With all the shenanigans Trump and Biden have gotten into over the course of their lives I think it might have been an improvement if they were gay.

But alas no.

[HVC]

You're assuming they wouldn't be equally creepy gays

[Sheilbh]

With all the shenanigans Trump and Biden have gotten into over the course of their lives I think it might have been an improvement if they were gay.

But alas no.

A significant number of the "Pestminster" allegations, investigations and arrests of MPs following "me too" have involved gay MPs abusing their power - and even, for novelty, a straight woman MP abusing hers. I think, sadly, there are people (overwhelmingly men) who abuse power and people around them, regardless of their sexuality.

[HVC]

Overwhelming men, I think, because men are overwhelming in power. My first job out of school was a temp position in an office. I was in my early 20s, and one of only two guys in the two departments at the location. In total the location had about 20 people, and I was the only one who was under mid 30s. It was an awkward experience.

[Sheilbh]

A bit - I think that's definitely part of it.

But to take the example of Parliament I think there's been over 60 serious allegations against MPs which are under investigation or have led to suspensions, resignations, police charges etc. There's 650 MPs and 35% of MPs are women. None of those 60+ allegations relate to women's conduct.

Though one woman MP in the SNP is accused of copping a feel of a young male staffer, but that's part of a far more serious set of allegations about the SNP's (male) Chief Whip.

It's not just that there are more men in positions of power. It is men and their behaviour that's a big part of the issues.

[HVC]

True enough. Although I will say that female on male harassment is vastly underreported. I wonder hiw many incidents in parliament don't come to light.

[Sheilbh]

True enough. Although I will say that female on male harassment is vastly underreported. I wonder hiw many incidents in parliament don't come to light.

Honestly I always wonder this with the UK and all these Pestminster scandals, but also the near collapse of the main business lobbying group, big stories about newspapers with some prominent firings following sexual harassment and abuse scandals etc. There's been rolling revelations post-me too.

I don't see as many scandals in other countries. Is it that I'm not aware? That UK politicians/businessmen etc are unusually abusive? Or is it just being reported/investigated/raised less in other countries? I'm not sure.

I always wonder if the press are part of it. I have many issues with the British press especially on their politics but I do think there is a useful disinfecting/sunlight side to having gangs of scurrilous muckrakers around (and as I mentioned during the Johnson/partygate scandals - so far, even the right wing press, will prefer a scoop to helping the politicians they back). I think being above scandals and all in on respecting private lives is good, but could also lead to absolute creeps getting away with it again and again.

[HVC]

Does any other country have the same tabloid tradition? I mean America has tmz, but that not really comparable, and they focus on celebs.

[Sheilbh]

Australia for sure. I don't know - I get the sense (and no reason for thinking this) that Taiwan and maybe South Korea have a streak of that too.

But this isn't just the tabloids really. The coverage of sexual abuse allegations in the CBI was really the Guardian, this story broke in the Times and Politico, Politico have also had Esther Webber (formerly of the BBC) who has been reporting on welfare of people who work in politics but aren't politicians (aides, staff in parliament etc) for years. Even if you look back at something like the expenses scandal that was the Telegraph.

Some are broken by the BBC. And also the tabloids have their moments too - Partygate was absolutely driven by the Mirror for example.

[HVC]

As far as inunderstand it korea has a toxic celebrity reporting culture but I don't think it extends beyond that. Of course once something does break then it's all shame, scandal, and over reaction, but that's an asian thing . The dogged search isn't there.

As for uk papers/news it's been my impression that tabloids drive the competition. The, at times, scummy news gets the views so the other media goes hard too. Everyone wants the new scoop. And  you do what you must to get it. Tap phones? Sure why not. Celebrories not doing anyhthing interesting? Nope, how about the royals? Nah. Politicians have to be up to something then. Its the drive for the scoop. But I could be mistaken.

[Josquius]

If Korea is anything like Japan then yeah. Really not comparable to British tabloids.
From what I gather their journalists put forward a very respectable polite face, all about building connections with insiders and getting the scoop in that way - and then once it's out that some pop star has a boyfriend thus has deemed herself a transgressor against their societally expected roles, then the horror can begin.

Certainly couldn't imagine the paparazzi operating in Japan in the way they do here. Stalking the innocent and famous and causing a scene everywhere.