[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

So hey, looks like an NDP majority in Manitoba and a First Nations premier. That's quite something.

[HVC]

People often look at what is suggested by algorithms, they don't look further than that.

We're not talking about just people.  We're talking about Canadians who presumably want to limit the percentage of non Canadian content they consume.

Those who want to actively limit their consumption can do so easily, so I don't think they're really a concern. The non picky would be better serviced, I suppose. I think trying to get more Canadian content is a good goal. I don't think quotas work, because companies just work around them. Funding would be better. It would also mean better content and those more "natural" viewership.  But that brings the question of where the money comes from and who it goes to.

[Jacob]

You make a good point HVC. It wouldn't be that hard to implement I don't think.

The CMF hands out funding for all manner of media productions, I don't see why it couldn't use a similar process to fund podcasts / youtube videos / or even tiktok channels. Some sort of process for determining whether any given item counts as CanCon.

Then combine it with some mandates re: minimum proportion of CanCon for search results / recommendations / or curated selections (i.e. Netflix requiring a CanCon category).

That'd probably do the trick in terms of implementation. Not sure where the funds would come from, but a little extra tax on Netflix / Youtube / etc wouldn't bother me particularly.

Personally I think it'd probably turn out pretty good, in spite of how ridiculous it might seem to orthodox free-marketeers like Yi.

[Grey Fox]

And that's a big problem.

I don't know either how to fix this but it has to start somewhere.

How about you voluntarily look at less non Canadian content? 

It's ridiculous to me that the internet has given us the power the to instantly consume content from virtually anywhere in the world and you Canadians are talking about how much of that consumption has to be Canadian.

I do. I have a whole other star system I engage with that produces content from my cultural background and in my original language.

The RoC on the other hand has a much bigger struggle on it's hands because of the share language with the metric tons of cultural content the USA produces on a daily basis. Radio Canadian content rules were extremely successful at creating a  star system of Canadian musicians. TV/Movie has proven harder.

Streaming is even harder since it is circumventing the few gains visual media had.

[HVC]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

[HVC]

You make a good point HVC. It wouldn't be that hard to implement I don't think.

The CMF hands out funding for all manner of media productions, I don't see why it couldn't use a similar process to fund podcasts / youtube videos / or even tiktok channels. Some sort of process for determining whether any given item counts as CanCon.

Then combine it with some mandates re: minimum proportion of CanCon for search results / recommendations / or curated selections (i.e. Netflix requiring a CanCon category).

That'd probably do the trick in terms of implementation. Not sure where the funds would come from, but a little extra tax on Netflix / Youtube / etc wouldn't bother me particularly.

Personally I think it'd probably turn out pretty good, in spite of how ridiculous it might seem to orthodox free-marketeers like Yi.

From my understanding getting those CMF funds is quite a circus and takes money to get money. Although I guess they could streamline it for social media people

[Grey Fox]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

IMO, that's because our broadcasters are addicted to SimSub and the easy of revenue that comes from that. No need to lobby for things to count as Canadian if the CRTC is letting you rebroadcast American shows for very little cost.

[Barrister]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

That's not correct.  Music works on the MAPL formula.  Out of the Music, Artist, Performance and Lyrics, 2 out of the 4 have to be Canadian.  So a Canadian singer, singing music and lyrics written by an American, and recoding in the US, does not count as Can Con.

[Sheilbh]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

Also how does it work with Canadian sources. My assumption is basically every American TV show with city scenes are most of the time filmed in Vancouver or Toronto - but even Last of Us was filmed in Canada. Do those count as Canadian?

I feel this comes up with the UK and France too but in a different way where there's some really weird impact on what counts as a French/British film v Hollywood in terms of awards submissions - I can't remember an example but I've definitely read something about it.

[Barrister]

So hey, looks like an NDP majority in Manitoba and a First Nations premier. That's quite something.

Premier-designate Wab Kinew had allegations of domestic violence against him in 2003.  Those charges were ultimately stayed by the Crown.  Victim has gone on record about what happened.  Kinew denied the allegations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/wab-kinew-domestic-assault-allegations-1.4290885#:~:text=Trevor%20Brine%2FCBC)-,%E2%80%8BThe%20woman%20at%20the%20centre%20of%2014%2Dyear%2Dold,her%20legs%20%E2%80%94%20allegations%20Kinew%20denies.

He was also charged with drunk driving and assaulting a taxi driver.  He pled guilty to the taxi driver incident and I can't fin d what happened to the drunk driving charge.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3756382/it-was-a-dark-period-in-my-life-wab-kinew-addresses-former-assault-drunk-driving-charges/

He hasn't gone into a Trumpish "fake news" defence.  He admits to making mistakes and having issues with alcohol.  But when he has talked about the cab driver incident in his book what he says differs significantly from the facts as read in to the court (which he would have had to agree with).

[Barrister]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

Also how does it work with Canadian sources. My assumption is basically every American TV show with city scenes are most of the time filmed in Vancouver or Toronto - but even Last of Us was filmed in Canada. Do those count as Canadian?

I feel this comes up with the UK and France too but in a different way where there's some really weird impact on what counts as a French/British film v Hollywood in terms of awards submissions - I can't remember an example but I've definitely read something about it.

It's more confusing than music so I had to look it up.  Here's the summary from WIkipedia:

What is considered Canadian content is determined by either the CRTC, or the Canadian Audio-Visual Certification Office (CAVCO) for film and television productions that are seeking its tax credit. The CRTC's requirements for a television program to be certified as a Canadian content include that:[20]

The producer of the program must be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and hold "full responsibility" in overseeing development, creative and financial control. The producer must also receive a remuneration that exceeds the aggregated remuneration of all foreign producer-related positions.
The production must employ a minimum number of Canadian citizens or permanent residents in key creative positions, as determined by a points system.
The director or screenwriter for live-action productions, or the scriptwriter or storyboard supervisor for animated productions, and at least one of the two highest-paid lead performers, must be Canadian.
For animated works, the key animation must be performed in Canada.
Non-Canadians may not be credited as a producer, co-producer, line producer, or production manager
At least 75% of all costs incurred for production services, as well as 75% of all costs incurred in post-production, must be for services provided in Canada.
The program must fall within a CRTC-defined program category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_content

So don't get we wrong - local governments love it when big TV or movie productions film in Canada, but there has to be a more significant tie to Canada then just being filmed in Canada.

That being said there used to be a trend of shows that fully met Can Con regulations but really hid their origin, often not specifying what country it was being set in, no Canadian references, in order to by syndicated in the US.  Schitt's Creek is an example - produced and shot in Canada, funded by the CBC, using mostly Canadian actors - but never specified the location of the show.  Plus it helped using Canadian actors who already had fame in the US with Levy and O'Hara.

[HVC]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

That's not correct.  Music works on the MAPL formula.  Out of the Music, Artist, Performance and Lyrics, 2 out of the 4 have to be Canadian.  So a Canadian singer, singing music and lyrics written by an American, and recoding in the US, does not count as Can Con.

I was mustaken then.

What makes music canadian in the M of MAPL? Wouldn't the singer being  being canadian count?

Also, does the artist have cowrittwn credit for some lines count as being written by a canadian?

But either way, easier then getting a tv show listed as candian

[Barrister]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

That's not correct.  Music works on the MAPL formula.  Out of the Music, Artist, Performance and Lyrics, 2 out of the 4 have to be Canadian.  So a Canadian singer, singing music and lyrics written by an American, and recoding in the US, does not count as Can Con.

I was mustaken then.

What makes music canadian in the M of MAPL? Wouldn't the singer being  being canadian count?

Also, does the artist have cowrittwn credit for some lines count as being written by a canadian?

But either way, easier then getting a tv show listed as candian

So M, for Music, is the melody/harmony "stuff".  The singer is the A for Artist.

So if I have it right, if music and lyrics are written by a Canadian, then even if performed and recorded by Americans, it counts as CanCon.

No idea how joint writing credits work.

[Grey Fox]

Music is a weird one though. A Canadian singer can go to the states, get American producers, and American writers, but still count as a Canadian singer. A tv show or movie with a Canadian actor doesn't count as Canadian.

Also how does it work with Canadian sources. My assumption is basically every American TV show with city scenes are most of the time filmed in Vancouver or Toronto - but even Last of Us was filmed in Canada. Do those count as Canadian?

As BB posted it would need more than only film location but Last of Us wasn't broadcasted by a Canadian broadcaster in Canada.

It's only available on Crave, a OTP streaming service existing on a Exemption to licensing from 1999.

[crazy canuck]

So hey, looks like an NDP majority in Manitoba and a First Nations premier. That's quite something.

Premier-designate Wab Kinew had allegations of domestic violence against him in 2003.  Those charges were ultimately stayed by the Crown.  Victim has gone on record about what happened.  Kinew denied the allegations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/wab-kinew-domestic-assault-allegations-1.4290885#:~:text=Trevor%20Brine%2FCBC)-,%E2%80%8BThe%20woman%20at%20the%20centre%20of%2014%2Dyear%2Dold,her%20legs%20%E2%80%94%20allegations%20Kinew%20denies.

He was also charged with drunk driving and assaulting a taxi driver.  He pled guilty to the taxi driver incident and I can't fin d what happened to the drunk driving charge.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3756382/it-was-a-dark-period-in-my-life-wab-kinew-addresses-former-assault-drunk-driving-charges/

He hasn't gone into a Trumpish "fake news" defence.  He admits to making mistakes and having issues with alcohol.  But when he has talked about the cab driver incident in his book what he says differs significantly from the facts as read in to the court (which he would have had to agree with).

Yes, that is the attack in Conservatives used during the election and it didn't work out very well for them.

Jacob, it will be interesting to see what he does as premier. I have seen him speak in front of a banquet hall of lawyers, and he had us all both laughing and tearing up throughout his speech.  Which is an example of both his power as an orator and his immense charisma. He is a person who will be able to get things done. The question is, what will he do?