The Off Topic Topic

[Josquius]

Whatever the reasons, there is definitely a perception of a gradual breakdown of order where I live.  I feel like it's a slowly brewing situation where law abiding citizens feel increasingly unsafe and powerless.  Scared and powerless people are what right wing voters are made of, and frankly it's hard to blame them when left wing local governments abdicate the very basic responsibility all governments have.

Verging on tinfoil hat but I increasingly do suspect this is deliberate by the right.
 Though they give an impression through their policies of not being capable of thinking holistically, in reality they're a lot smarter than they let on... And they understand very well how to nudge the population towards a way of thinking that will secure their support.

Certainly it's beyond conspiracy and into fairly accepted that in the UK the tories disproportionately throw cuts at local governments held by opposition parties and ensure they get the blame.

[DGuller]

I do suspect that part of it is a deliberate slowdown by police in response to BLM events, by way of either malicious compliance or lack of enthusiasm.  Part of it can also be just cops avoiding any situation that can result in them being featured in the next series of headlines, if at all possible. 

Why bother dealing with some deranged nut harassing passersby on the street in some hippie neighborhood?  They want social justice?  Let them enjoy social justice, fuck them, I'm not getting involved in this shit.

[Admiral Yi]

Certainly it's beyond conspiracy and into fairly accepted that in the UK the tories disproportionately throw cuts at local governments held by opposition parties and ensure they get the blame.

It's that last hurdle from fairly accepted to clearly documented that is the most difficult.

[Josquius]

Certainly it's beyond conspiracy and into fairly accepted that in the UK the tories disproportionately throw cuts at local governments held by opposition parties and ensure they get the blame.

It's that last hurdle from fairly accepted to clearly documented that is the most difficult.

It's a fact that they're doing this.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas

No sign of memos from within the government outlining the thinking behind it yet to provide 100% proof it's nefarious. But the only workable explanations are clear.

[HVC]

I do suspect that part of it is a deliberate slowdown by police in response to BLM events, by way of either malicious compliance or lack of enthusiasm.  Part of it can also be just cops avoiding any situation that can result in them being featured in the next series of headlines, if at all possible. 

Why bother dealing with some deranged nut harassing passersby on the street in some hippie neighborhood?  They want social justice?  Let them enjoy social justice, fuck them, I'm not getting involved in this shit.

Sometimes liberal laws are just bad. Defunding police, $0 bail for repeat offenders, dollar limit to prosecute theft, stuff like that would obviously lead to more crime. You can couch it as an attempt to help the people but it's bad policy. You can't punch yourself in the face and then blame the other guy when you bleed.

[Syt]

Whatever the reasons, there is definitely a perception of a gradual breakdown of order where I live.  I feel like it's a slowly brewing situation where law abiding citizens feel increasingly unsafe and powerless.  Scared and powerless people are what right wing voters are made of, and frankly it's hard to blame them when left wing local governments abdicate the very basic responsibility all governments have.

Are there published crime statistics for the area you live in? In some cases there may be a discrepancy between how much coverage crime gets and how much is actually happening.

[Josquius]

I do suspect that part of it is a deliberate slowdown by police in response to BLM events, by way of either malicious compliance or lack of enthusiasm.  Part of it can also be just cops avoiding any situation that can result in them being featured in the next series of headlines, if at all possible. 

Why bother dealing with some deranged nut harassing passersby on the street in some hippie neighborhood?  They want social justice?  Let them enjoy social justice, fuck them, I'm not getting involved in this shit.

Sometimes liberal laws are just bad. Defunding police, $0 bail for repeat offenders, dollar limit to prosecute theft, stuff like that would obviously lead to more crime. You can couch it as an attempt to help the people but it's bad policy. You can't punch yourself in the face and then blame the other guy when you bleed.

Wasn't the defund the police thing more about defund the current police and recreate them from the ground up to better represent the communities they serve ala Northern Ireland?

[Admiral Yi]

Wasn't the defund the police thing more about defund the current police and recreate them from the ground up to better represent the communities they serve ala Northern Ireland?

Defund the police was something shouted out once (I believe) at a BLM protest and tweeted later and almost immediately deleted by Ilhan Omar.  Hire social workers to replace some cops was an idea raised in a different context around the time of the BLM protests.

[Admiral Yi]

And there was the Seattle city council which passed a motion to cut the city police budget by 40 or 60%.  AFAIK they never did for reasons I don't understand.  Although Seattle did have a brief experience with a police free zone.

[garbon]

Having a quick look it seems like most cities that said they were going to cut police budgets did not. Many like SF, ultimately increased police budgets.

[DGuller]

Whatever the reasons, there is definitely a perception of a gradual breakdown of order where I live.  I feel like it's a slowly brewing situation where law abiding citizens feel increasingly unsafe and powerless.  Scared and powerless people are what right wing voters are made of, and frankly it's hard to blame them when left wing local governments abdicate the very basic responsibility all governments have.

Are there published crime statistics for the area you live in? In some cases there may be a discrepancy between how much coverage crime gets and how much is actually happening.

I haven't checked, but how reliable are crime statistics in this case either?  Are you going to keep reporting crimes that police doesn't care about?  Also, I personally don't follow the local news, so my first-hand perceptions are purely my own. 

The second-hand perceptions could be affected by the coverage, but I don't even know what the coverage actually is like.  The coverage could actually gaslight people into telling them that everything is fine, and it's not enlightened to think otherwise.  I remember a recent incident that did get into my Google News feed, about a subway rider choking to death a homeless person who allegedly behaved in a very threatening way.  The coverage of that event seemed to be very out of line with how NYC residents for the most part reacted to it.

[Sheilbh]

I haven't checked, but how reliable are crime statistics in this case either?  Are you going to keep reporting crimes that police doesn't care about?  Also, I personally don't follow the local news, so my first-hand perceptions are purely my own. 

In the UK you normally need a crime number to claim on your insurance which I think does mean I think some crimes particularly against property are reported. Obviously there are still issues with crime reporting especially if they don't think the police will act, such as hate crimes so I think there's always a debate among statisticians of how much an increase is people reporting crime more (good) or more crime.

Police Scotland are currently trialling not investigating certain "minor crimes" which they say will give them more time to focus on emergencies and "keeping people safe from harm". But the police say you should still report minor crimes and they will still give you a crime number for your insurance claim. But you're right if the police have announced they're not going to investigate certain crimes anymore - unless you need it for insurance what's the point. I'm not sure it's the right approach (or, necessarily, for the police to decide).

Wasn't the defund the police thing more about defund the current police and recreate them from the ground up to better represent the communities they serve ala Northern Ireland?

I think this is a problem in parts of the activist left at the minute (and I think it's linked to education becoming a split in politics). For some people it literally means defund. But there is a trend of "defund the police" actually means police reform, "abolish prisons" actually means prison reform, "abolish the family" actually means embrace your extended family more.

I think there's these phrases that have meaning and context within an academic setting which are occasionally being mainlined into normal politics - and then incredulity that people who don't have that knowledge (or necessarily have access to it) take it literally and think it might be a bad idea. It's also one of the reasons I hate the whole "do the work" thing - also I thin that's just the atheist Protestants run amok.

[crazy canuck]

Overblown rhetoric probably doesn't help either

[Eddie Teach]

So it's going around that the womenfolk are discovering how often we think about ancient Rome. 

[garbon]

So it's going around that the womenfolk are discovering how often we think about ancient Rome. 

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