Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.

Several employers have bought earphones for me. Pretty standard stuff for making calls.
Sometimes bottom of the line cheapest shit around, but once some really nice ones as standard. I suppose with airpods there's the advantage of not messing up your hair/being very discrete when you've got them on and appearance being important for a leading politician?

[The Larch]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.

Buying fancy earphones, the gateway to institutional corruption.

[Tamas]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.

Several employers have bought earphones for me. Pretty standard stuff for making calls.
Sometimes bottom of the line cheapest shit around, but once some really nice ones as standard. I suppose with airpods there's the advantage of not messing up your hair/being very discrete when you've got them on and appearance being important for a leading politician?

Yeah I have also been purchased a wireless headset by work. Some key differences:
I did not choose what to buy
Its not an expense written off by me - its company property loaned to me (so they wrote off the cost, but its their own private money)
an airpod is a piece of convenience to be used with your phone, and the most expensive option at that.

[Tamas]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.

Buying fancy earphones, the gateway to institutional corruption.

All I am saying is that there is no difference to human nature between the West and Eastern Europe.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I think especially as we've moved to more WFH, it's fairly defensible. She'll have an iPad and a smart phone be expected to join loads of meetings - but she's deputy leader of the Labour Party so her job will involve lots of travel, so lots of dialing in.

I don't really have an issue with it.

The problem is hypocrisy - if you're attacking incidental expenses as Labour are, then all of yours are going to get looked at.

I also think it just contributes to the anti-politics narrative that they're all in it for themselves/trying to get their snouts in the trough - which is something people already think, isn't true and is I think corrosive on our politics.

[The Larch]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.

Buying fancy earphones, the gateway to institutional corruption.

All I am saying is that there is no difference to human nature between the West and Eastern Europe.

Nature? No, of course. Now, nurture, that's a different thing. 

[Sheilbh]

All I am saying is that there is no difference to human nature between the West and Eastern Europe.

Of course not - but I don't think anyone is saying it's to do with human nature.

But I'm not sure that I've seen any reason to doubt Transparency International's reports. The latest had the UK falling a few places but in terms of score the UK was on 73 which is equal with Belgium and Japan, and between France (72) and Canada, Estonia, Iceland and Uruguay (74).

Several employers have bought earphones for me. Pretty standard stuff for making calls.
Sometimes bottom of the line cheapest shit around, but once some really nice ones as standard. I suppose with airpods there's the advantage of not messing up your hair/being very discrete when you've got them on and appearance being important for a leading politician?

Yeah. I've definitely been told to just buy something and expense it before - normally because there isn't a procurement route availiable or it's not worth using it for a one off purchase.

But more importantly MPs aren't employees of parliament. They are paid and they are entitled to expenses for the costs of being an MP (residence in London, office, staff, IT etc) - which is set and vetted by an independent body. But that's structurally quite important because if they are just employees either of parliament or their parties that creates a lot of risk about pressure being put on them either by parliamentary authorities or party bosses. Also it means that someone from a small party - for example the Greens, are as able to run a parliamentary office as someone from one of the big traditional parties.

My own view is a lot of it shouldn't be reported or treated as expenses.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Rayner is an MP for a Manchester constituency which she will travel to and from at least once a week, that's about 5 hours or so on the train which can be productive working time with the right kit.

MPs are only paid £84k so they tend to get things on expenses if they can, most could easily get more pay in the outside world. They did not get paid or get expenses at all till c1904; I'm sure Rees-Mogg et al would be happy to return to those arrangements...it makes sure that the hoi polloi can't serve as an MP.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I also think this is a tactical error by Labour. There is the much more juicy story of the PPE procurement during the pandemic. Which involved VIP fastlanes for tory cronies, super-normal profits (up to 100% or so), unfit for purpose PPE probably sourced on the likes of Ali-Baba (and then a huge profit made for something any 12-year-old could have done)....and no real involvement by Labour at all.

[Sheilbh]

I also think this is a tactical error by Labour. There is the much more juicy story of the PPE procurement during the pandemic. Which involved VIP fastlanes for tory cronies, super-normal profits (up to 100% or so), unfit for purpose PPE probably sourced on the likes of Ali-Baba (and then a huge profit made for something any 12-year-old could have done)....and no real involvement by Labour at all.

Yes - but on the PPE procurement (and I think PPE in general is one of the two areas of the covid response where I think there's going to be very strong and fully justified criticism in the inquiry), I wonder if that privacy decision I posted about a while ago is having an impact.

The Supreme Court decided that it was a misuse of an individual's private information to report the existence of an investigation into them. The original case was around criminal investigation but I know that lawyers like Carter Ruck are trying to push it - for example oligarchs threatening to sue if you report that state authorities are looking at whether to include them on the next sanctions list, doctors threatening to sue if you report that they're being investigated for professional/ethical failures by the GMC etc.

We know that the National Crime Agency raided Michelle Mone's home, for example. There's been relatively little reporting on that or her since. My suspicion is that it's because of that case and she's instructed Carter Ruck or Schillings. Obviously if an investigation leads to charges then the reporting restrictions/contempt of court rules kick in (though you can report the charges). It might be that nothing's happening but the raid by the NCA followed by relative silence makes me think that there's quite possibly an ongoing investigation.

On the airpods issue - I think it is always worth remembering the absolutely insane perception of the British public on how much MPs cost


And, incidentally, I guarantee that they think that money on pensions and benefits goes to Vicky Pollards not, as in reality, overwhelmingly to pensioners

[Richard Hakluyt]

The recent furore over at the Daily Mail about 53% taking out more than they were putting in had some grimly humorous moments. All those elderly DM commenters with health issues and receiving the state pension getting up in arms about it...with no idea that they were part of the demonised group 

Edit : I see what you mean about the current quiet over the PPE scandal. Hopefully the investigations will be rigorous.

[garbon]

Rayner is an MP for a Manchester constituency which she will travel to and from at least once a week, that's about 5 hours or so on the train which can be productive working time with the right kit.

MPs are only paid £84k so they tend to get things on expenses if they can, most could easily get more pay in the outside world. They did not get paid or get expenses at all till c1904; I'm sure Rees-Mogg et al would be happy to return to those arrangements...it makes sure that the hoi polloi can't serve as an MP.

I don't know. It feels odd to suggest that people who make 84k a year should be absolved of buying their own airpods.

[Sheilbh]

Worth saying it seems to demonstrate why it was a tactical blunder by Labour given that we're all talking about an expenses claim by their Deputy Leader and not any of the example Labour have pushed of "lavish spending" by the government.

[Josquius]

Rayner is an MP for a Manchester constituency which she will travel to and from at least once a week, that's about 5 hours or so on the train which can be productive working time with the right kit.

MPs are only paid £84k so they tend to get things on expenses if they can, most could easily get more pay in the outside world. They did not get paid or get expenses at all till c1904; I'm sure Rees-Mogg et al would be happy to return to those arrangements...it makes sure that the hoi polloi can't serve as an MP.

I don't know. It feels odd to suggest that people who make 84k a year should be absolved of buying their own airpods.

Conversely it seems petty to whinge about the government spending 200 quid on earphones that are standard equipment for MPs doing their job.
Put a value on the time being spent moaning about this and you come to a lot more than 200 quid.

[Jacob]

All I am saying is that there is no difference to human nature between the West and Eastern Europe.

I agree that human nature is pretty consistent in a lot of ways, but insisting that the country that's number 11 (UK) on this index functions the same as the country that's number 73 (Hungary) or the one that's 135 (Russia), and the only reason they're not rated the same is because people in the less corrupt countries are naive is just flat out silly.

Expensing a set of Airpod earbuds when people think you shouldn't be able to (an opinion held independently of what the rules and processes actually are) is just not the same is diverting millions of dollars in military investment to private pockets up and down the entire military and civilian bureaucracies (Russia), or Orban's various crony-enrichment and opposition neutering schemes as reported by yourself.