Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zanza]

But ultimately both sides have the same incentives/reasons. Both still exist, both are still allies and actually have broadly very similar outlooks. There's no sign that's going to change and that reality will ultimately get them working together.

Sure, and we are already working together on all areas of shared interest though. We have a comprehensive FTA and (with NATO) a military alliance.

The articles names some areas:

how can we get into the best position in order to have a conversation with the EU about changes to the UK-EU trade and cooperation agreement

So renegotiating the TCA... but I guess SM/CU is not on the table. What exactly beyond the TCA scope can the UK and EU agree upon then if nothing really changed? We just negotiated it four years ago after all...

the EU and UK "have shared interests on containing Russian aggression, developing new sources of energy and building major technology companies with their capital base on our side of the Atlantic, rather than just the US", as well as common defence interests.

On containing Russian aggression, the forum is NATO, not bilateral EU/UK relations and while there will of course be security initiatives, it will likely be within NATO or between UK and member states, don't see much of an EU role there. The EU first needs to get its internal cooperation sorted.
Building tech companies or energy infrastructure with a country that decided to leave our single market seems fanciful beyond what is already covered in the TCA for energy.

It also raised questions about forging closer links with the EU on tackling organised crime, illegal immigration

The reason the UK does no longer has closer links there is that it wanted out of the ECJ jurisdiction. That did not change, so while there surely is potential here, it seems fairly limited.

and raised the possibility of a joint EU-UK policy towards China

Please. The EU cannot even formulate a policy that is acceptable for all its members. We don't need a third party here to make it more complicated. 

[Sheilbh]

I don't disagree with much of that - especially what is basically the IRA response piece although I think the energy infrastructure piece is a little separate.

I think there will be stuff that can be done there partly because there already has been. In the last year the UK has acted as a landbridge to Europe utilising its LNG capacity to get gas in and then piping it at above capacity levels into the rest of Europe. I think there'll be similar in the future around renewables, particularly off-shore wind.

Which ultimately just reflects reality. I imagine most years will be less eventful but since the TCA came into effect we've had a global pandemic, an invasion in Europe and the Americans getting serious about climate in a way that is very protectionist. No system, treaty or law is ever going to be fixed because the world isn't. So we've already seen heightened cooperation on energy, Macron's European Political Community and minilateralism in the response to Ukraine.

The UK and EU are allies who matter to each other in terms of shared security, the EU is a massive economy and the UK is (in global terms) a pretty big one. The nature of their relationship is going to be dynamic and evolving - because the world around them is and (I suspect) because the EU will be. I don't think every year will be as eventful as 2020-2022 - but I think the post-cold war/long 90s stability is ending (if not already over).

Also for example on security and organised crime. The reason there are no formal links is because neither side wanted to talk about it at the same time: the EU wouldn't talk about it during the divorce deal because they thought the British would use it as leverage - and the UK wouldn't talk about it during the TCA deal because they thought the EU would use it as leverage. There was no principled objection or issue with it on either side. There were more than a few areas like that that basically got sidelined by both parties at different points because they thought it might give the other side leverage I think those will get picked up.

[Sheilbh]

They've got a website with the countdown to 7am on Monday:
https://thegpcfiles.com/

And this graphic so it feels like it is definitely something to do with Government Procurement Cards:

I get that Labour say there's more to come on this - but thhere better be because this feels like very weak tea (and a rod for its own back once they're in office):

Tory ministers accused of five-star lifestyle and using public money 'like a cash machine'
Labour to publish dossier of spending by government representatives on luxury hotels and chauffeur hire
Michael Savage Policy Editor
Sun 12 Feb 2023 06.00 GMT
Last modified on Sun 12 Feb 2023 06.01 GMT

Labour is launching a campaign accusing government ministers and officials of spending taxpayer-funded credit cards on luxury travel and hotels, claiming they are using public money "like a cash machine".

In an attempt to inflict further damage to the Tory party's credentials as sound managers of public finances, Keir Starmer's party is deploying a social media blitz to highlight five-star hotel visits by the likes of Rishi Sunak and new Tory chairman Greg Hands.

However, a senior Tory source said that information about the use of government procurement cards (GPCs) was already in the public domain, while transparency about their use had been brought in by the Tory-led government in 2011. Some also queried what level of hotel stay Labour thought was appropriate for government officials and guests.

Labour will publish its dossier of findings on Monday and on a dedicated website, www.theGPCfiles.com. It states that Sunak stayed in the five-star Hotel Danieli in Venice when attending the G20 meeting of finance ministers in July 2021 as chancellor, with more than £4,500 spent on accommodation for Sunak and his aides.

Hands is also singled out for staying for two nights in the £318 per night five-star Grand Hotel Petersberg in Koenigswinter, Germany, in order to attend a private gathering of European policymakers. Alok Sharma is listed as staying in a series of five-star hotels in Berlin, Saigon, Tianjin and twice in Seoul – at costs of up to £255 per night – during the 66 trips he made as Cop26 president. Labour said it cost at least £220,817 for his travel and hotels.

Under Sunak, the Treasury also hired a £3,600 chauffeur service for ministers and officials visiting Cop26 in November 2021. The same chauffeur service was hired by Nadhim Zahawi's department for £1,040 during his own trip to Cop26.

Former minister Nigel Adams is named as spending £9,289 on a visit to Japan in July 2022 in order to "confirm the UK's commitment to the Osaka Expo", which takes place in 2025. Adams announced he was leaving the government five and a half weeks after the trip. Labour said a late request for an official from the Department for International Trade to accompany him added an extra £8,110 flight to the costs of the trip.

In 2012, the public accounts committee (PAC) criticised the use of five-star hotels and expensive transport costs. Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party, said: "As Conservative ministers once again reach into the pockets of taxpayers to dine out on a five-star luxury lifestyle, families up and down the country are sick with anxiety about whether their pay cheque will cover the weekly shop. Far from actually governing, Conservative ministers are living the high life and treating taxpayers like a cash machine."

My view is broadly the same as Duncan Robinson who's the Economist's Bagehot columnist and had this comment - which I think sums up a fairly big strand of British thinking (it'll also come up about the cost of the coronation - which is mainly security - etc):

Duncan Robinson
@duncanrobinson
https://theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/12/tory-ministers-accused-of-five-star-lifestyle-and-using-public-money-like-a-cash-machine
 "Sunak stayed in the five-star Hotel Danieli in Venice when attending the G20 meeting of finance ministers in July 2021 as chancellor, with more than £4,500 spent on accommodation for Sunak and his aides." This is pointless tight-fistedness.
There is this insane idea in British politics that if you cut the biscuit budget enough and force your chancellor to stay in Il Premiere Inn, you will have enough cash left over to fund Our NHS
Cuts through both left and right

Edit: It reminds me of the outrage over the £1,400 "boozy" lunch at taxpayer expense by Truss when she was Trade Secretary - but it was for about ten people with the US Commerce Secretary who was on a trip to London

[Richard Hakluyt]

Clearly Truss should have taken him to a Wetherspoons 

But I agree. There was a lot of moaning in the media about Sunak using a helicopter to get about (Cornwall, London and Teeside in the same day iirc), but there are valid reasons why the PMs time is valuable.

[Sheilbh]

But I agree. There was a lot of moaning in the media about Sunak using a helicopter to get about (Cornwall, London and Teeside in the same day iirc), but there are valid reasons why the PMs time is valuable.

Yeah. I think there's an argument about using it less - but even back in Blair's days the security teams were very itchy about the PM on trains. It was basically a thing they would do with the press/for PR but otherwise the security preference was that they're driven or helicoptered. I imagine they've not got more relaxed about that.

I also find it slightly mad when the press get angry about ministers using a government plane for, say, a trip to Australia because surely that's the purpose of having a government plane? Don't necessarily use it by default or for everything (and certainly not for anything private) but I don't really have an issue with it.

Similarly I don't personally mind the Chancellor of the Exchequer and their team staying in an expensive hotel in Venice when Italy's hosting the G7.

Edit: I suppose it's just another pennywise pound foolish British attitude

[The Larch]

We have that same attitude in Spain. Whenever Sánchez flies anywhere using the official state plane a sector of the right goes apeshit over it and try to turn it into a political wedge issue.

[Zanza]

That's silly. Where else but in a five star hotel would a minister of Her Majesty stay when abroad?

By the way, Germany just bought three A350 in VIP configuation for 1.2 billion Euro to ferry around our government members. The media reports were mainly about how shoddy the predecessor aircraft were and how cool and modern the A350 is.

[Syt]

[Admiral Yi]

My understanding of the hotel star system is that it simply indicates what amenities it has, like a gym and room service, and has little to do with the quality or the cost.

[Sheilbh]

That's silly. Where else but in a five star hotel would a minister of Her Majesty stay when abroad?

Ideally in a TravelLodge clearly

It's not just this either. As he says it's a lot of penny pinching on everything. I always think of the infuriated reports of civil servants and ministers in the Health Department spending thousands of pounds on food in the early months of the pandemic - which they were because they were working all hours on pandemic response and expensing their dinners

I blame the Puritans, somehow

By the way, Germany just bought three A350 in VIP configuation for 1.2 billion Euro to ferry around our government members. The media reports were mainly about how shoddy the predecessor aircraft were and how cool and modern the A350 is.

That sounds like a far healthier culture. It was a huge story when Blair ordered the first government plane - immediately nicknamed "Blair Force One" and seen as a sign of how he was making the role of PM too presidential etc etc.

Here it's always positioned as wasting taxpayer money. I remember there being a big story over Truss as Foreign Secretary going on a visit to Australian on a government plane which was attacked as "misuing taxpayer money to fund her jetset lifestlye"

You even had Sir Chris Bryant (I think chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee) recalling "for comparison, my first trip as a Foreign Office minister was on easyJet at 6am and we didn't pay for speedy boarding."

It's generally speaking something I'm very relaxed about - although there's a difference betwen a junior foreign office minister and senior cabinet minister - but I am aware my views are very niche in this regard.

[Zanza]

Merkel and Scholz had missed the first day of a G20 summit in 2018 due to the government plane being broken. That's when they decided that they would need new planes.

[Josquius]

On the other hand I absolutely oppose Sunak and his helicoptering about.
In exceptional circumstances its an option. But the PM really should be taking the train otherwise. Schedule things sensible so they're not expected at 3 places in opposite ends of the country on the same day.
Give them an entire carriage or two. Its not like they can't work on the train.
And if the trains suck too much outside London? Well then that might incentivise them to actually do something about it.

But this is more for environmental reasons and setting an example than budgets. I hate the whinging on mp salaries and expenses you can see. So misplaced and if the moaners got their way they'd see the opposite result to what many of them want.

[Sheilbh]

On the other hand I absolutely oppose Sunak and his helicoptering about.
In exceptional circumstances its an option. But the PM really should be taking the train otherwise. Schedule things sensible so they're not expected at 3 places in opposite ends of the country on the same day.
Give them an entire carriage or two. Its not like they can't work on the train.
And if the trains suck too much outside London? Well then that might incentivise them to actually do something about it.

Hiring a carriage or two might address some of the security bods' concerns (although not all) - and it would cause more inconvenience to the general public than any other form of transport.

I suspect the alternative is normally car with a small escort.

But this is more for environmental reasons and setting an example than budgets. I hate the whinging on mp salaries and expenses you can see. So misplaced and if the moaners got their way they'd see the opposite result to what many of them want.

I'll say it a million times - but MPs' staff and office costs should not be included in their budgets. And they should be pretty high so they could pay enough to hire people other than grads (assuming they're not just employing family members). Not only would it get rid of a lot of the discourse around expenses because office and staff costs are the biggest bit but it might improve the lives and effectiveness of backbenchers - especially ones with senior committee posts if they could hire more experienced teams.

Edit: And at the minute all of this is in the Guardian because it's a Tory government - and I believe Kath Viner's said her mission is to get rid of this government. But I think these are some really poor stories:
Chancellor of the Exchequer stays in nice hotel at international conference
Prime Minister using government planes to travel quickly around the country
Leavers and Remainers in politics have a conference on making Brexit and our relationship with Europe work better

These all seem like dog bites man stories that have had a very strong spin put on them. And on the last one the same people who'll moan about polarisation and why we can't have a more discursive, consensual style politics are the ones publishing about "secret summits" on Brexit - no doubt at a "luxury" country house retreat.

[Sheilbh]

Almost inevitably Labour are immediately having to defend some of their own expenses claims. For example, Angela Rayner who is leading the attack is being questioned about the fact that she claimed Airpods on expenses - which she defends as essential for her work.

They are pointing to the overall spending on these cards (at £150 million for 2021 across 14 departments) which covers lots of stuff like IT equipment, travel, hospitality, etc. A lot of the spending seems to be at the Foreign Office - they're certainly the department who use the system most. They have noted that it's part of their job to entertain. It certainly seems like they use it most often for costs of parties/receptions and entertaining - which is part of diplomacy.

I'm still struggling to see a scandal here - certainly one as big as Labour were pre-briefing - for example, I don't really have an issue on Liz Truss as Foreign Secretary paying for access to a VIP suite in Heathrow " allowing her to bypass the normal check-in, security and passport procedures". Similarly there's a £4,500 dinner in New York for Johnson - and 24 aides. So just under £200 per head which is expensive, for sure, but also seems like the sort of cost I imagine you'd get in a relatively fancy restaurant in central London or, say, near the UN in New York for a big party (especially as I assume they probably had some wine).

Unless Keir Starmer's planning to camp at the G7 when he's PM this feels pretty misjudged - and has, in effect, declared open season on the expenses of every member of the Shadow Cabinet.

Edit: Guardian political reporter snippeting another couple of examples "there is no excuse for this deliberate obscurity". The examples are the Attorney General spending £909 on lunch with the Prosecutor General of Ukraine at the Cinnamon Club which is described as "meeting refreshments" (again I'd expect that probably included their teams); the other is £1,120 spent at the Crafty Hen for 'an away day, team-building, ceramic painting for 35' which is simply listed as "training". Now there's maybe an issue with data entry on the spreadsheet there - but I still don't see a scandal.

And again the culture this indicates and contributes to is, I think, part of why the civil service/government is not always a great place to work - if an away day for a team doing some ceramics (at the cost of about £30 per head) is going to get attacked.

[Tamas]

lol Airpods essential.

And you guys think I am foolish to assume that corruption is everywhere. If somebody can convince themselves that it is a-ok to buy airpods from taxpayer money, they'll very easily convince themselves about the great idea of handing grants and business to their friends.