The Off Topic Topic

[celedhring]

So, a beleaguered Spanish steel products manufacturer (Celsa) is restructuring debt to avoid financial collapse. One of the demands from the creditors? That the company moves to Luxemburg so it pays less taxes 

WTF? Can creditors actually ask for such a thing?

I'm not an expert, but changing ownership structure is common in restructuring deals - some of the debt will be turned into equity.  After this goes through (it's being reported today that the current owners have accepted the deal) Celsa will be owned by a new holding company headquartered in Luxemburg. Ostensibly to reduce tax burden. I just find it so cheeky.

[The Larch]

So, a beleaguered Spanish steel products manufacturer (Celsa) is restructuring debt to avoid financial collapse. One of the demands from the creditors? That the company moves to Luxemburg so it pays less taxes 

WTF? Can creditors actually ask for such a thing?

I'm not an expert, but changing ownership structure is common in restructuring deals - some of the debt will be turned into equity.  After this goes through (it's being reported today that the current owners have accepted the deal) Celsa will be owned by a new holding company headquartered in Luxemburg. Ostensibly to reduce tax burden. I just find it so cheeky.

That is indeed a sneakier way to achieve the same result, yes.

[Syt]

So, a beleaguered Spanish steel products manufacturer (Celsa) is restructuring debt to avoid financial collapse. One of the demands from the creditors? That the company moves to Luxemburg so it pays less taxes 

WTF? Can creditors actually ask for such a thing?

I'm not an expert, but changing ownership structure is common in restructuring deals - some of the debt will be turned into equity.  After this goes through (it's being reported today that the current owners have accepted the deal) Celsa will be owned by a new holding company headquartered in Luxemburg. Ostensibly to reduce tax burden. I just find it so cheeky.

Is that holding owned by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArcelorMittal maybe?

[celedhring]

So, a beleaguered Spanish steel products manufacturer (Celsa) is restructuring debt to avoid financial collapse. One of the demands from the creditors? That the company moves to Luxemburg so it pays less taxes 

WTF? Can creditors actually ask for such a thing?

I'm not an expert, but changing ownership structure is common in restructuring deals - some of the debt will be turned into equity.  After this goes through (it's being reported today that the current owners have accepted the deal) Celsa will be owned by a new holding company headquartered in Luxemburg. Ostensibly to reduce tax burden. I just find it so cheeky.

Is that holding owned by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArcelorMittal maybe?

No, it's some funds that bought up the company's debt.

[Sheilbh]

Not a surprise - and a Luxembourg businessman (director of over 100 companies associated with various very rich individuals and domicilied in a list of world's shadiest jurisdictions) just successfully challenged EU laws on public registers of beneficial ownership.

It was under anti-money laundering, counter-terrorism and anti-corruption rules that states would establish registers of beneficial ownership - that is who actually has the benefit from that company/corporate structure rather than what other shelly company legally owns it. The CJEU ruled (I think wrongly and very negatively) that there's no lawful basis under GDPR for making that data public - or, more precisely, there might be a legitimate interest but it is outweighed by the risks to the rights and freedoms of the individuals (the beneficial owners)

As I say I think it's wrong and a huge blow to transparency but very good for Luxembourg's business model.

[Jacob]

Time to kick Luxembourg out of the EU.

[Sheilbh]

I think I posted a map on here of corporate tax evasion losers and winners and Luxembourg is bad (in terms of the EU, not as bad as Ireland or the Netherlands) - but I can't find the map so you'll just have to take my word

[Josquius]

Youtube randomly threw a video at me today I watched a few minutes of. American dude describing rugby for American football fans. He sounded enthused about it, describing it as an entire sport like the exciting final play in American football.
I wonder whether rugby could make any serious headway in popularity in the US from tapping into this.
It's obviously never going to be a major professional sport, but the way seems clear for a decent international team at least with players playing abroad.

[Grey Fox]

There's a 13 teams Rugby union league and a 4 teams Rugby league league.

The Toronto Wolfpack tried to play in the British system but it's first season was 2020. So, that killed any short term future of that project.

[grumbler]

Youtube randomly threw a video at me today I watched a few minutes of. American dude describing rugby for American football fans. He sounded enthused about it, describing it as an entire sport like the exciting final play in American football.
I wonder whether rugby could make any serious headway in popularity in the US from tapping into this.
It's obviously never going to be a major professional sport, but the way seems clear for a decent international team at least with players playing abroad.

US Rugby already has teams at the club, high school, college, international, and professional levels.  Men and women at every level except professional (professional women's rugby has fizzled when attempted).

[The Larch]

Youtube randomly threw a video at me today I watched a few minutes of. American dude describing rugby for American football fans. He sounded enthused about it, describing it as an entire sport like the exciting final play in American football.
I wonder whether rugby could make any serious headway in popularity in the US from tapping into this.
It's obviously never going to be a major professional sport, but the way seems clear for a decent international team at least with players playing abroad.

I think I got that same video recommended to me. 

The US is already a decent rugby team. They are only 3rd tier or so worldwide, more or less, but they regularly qualify for the WC, although they are also regularly steamrolled by almost every other team they face.

Edit: Just checked it and for this years' WC neither the US nor Canada qualified,, for the first time in decades.

I'm also seeing that the 2031 WC will actually be hosted by the US.

[grumbler]

Oh, Canada! 

Warning:  some pretty disturbing shit here, about "initiations" into Canadian Junior Hockey:
ICI Radio Canada

[Admiral Yi]

Youtube randomly threw a video at me today I watched a few minutes of. American dude describing rugby for American football fans. He sounded enthused about it, describing it as an entire sport like the exciting final play in American football.
I wonder whether rugby could make any serious headway in popularity in the US from tapping into this.
It's obviously never going to be a major professional sport, but the way seems clear for a decent international team at least with players playing abroad.

There are a couple things I don't get about rugby.

Apart from the highlight breakaway runs, 90% of the action seems to be the team with possession running four yards and getting tackled, getting back up and running another four yards.  Then once in a while instead of running four yards they kick it.  Why do they do that?

Then sometimes when the runner gets tackled instead of running another four yards both teams form a scrum.  When do you scrum and when do you run another four yards?

And what is the point of the scrum?  It seems like a show and the team that had possession always gets it back.

[mongers]

Al Jazeera has an American report, Kristen Saloomey, who reports on US/UN politics; I was just wondering what ethnic/country origin does this unusual surname have?

[Grey Fox]

Al Jazeera has an American report, Kristen Saloomey, who reports on US/UN politics; I was just wondering what ethnic/country origin does this unusual surname have?

Yours.