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Green Energy Revolution Megathread

Started by jimmy olsen, May 19, 2016, 10:30:37 PM

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Admiral Yi

Anyone know how recyclable rare earths are?


Jacob

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 13, 2023, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2023, 09:16:28 PMAnyone know how recyclable rare earths are?
Same as all metals

I'd expect it's complicated a bit by the fact that rare earths are typically used in very small component parts, so the extraction for recycling is probably a pain.

... but I don't know.

Valmy

Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2023, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 13, 2023, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2023, 09:16:28 PMAnyone know how recyclable rare earths are?
Same as all metals

I'd expect it's complicated a bit by the fact that rare earths are typically used in very small component parts, so the extraction for recycling is probably a pain.

... but I don't know.

It is but fortunately that problem was solved a few years ago I believe. When there is that much money at stake, people tend to quickly find a way.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

crazy canuck

Quote from: Jacob on January 13, 2023, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 13, 2023, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2023, 09:16:28 PMAnyone know how recyclable rare earths are?
Same as all metals

I'd expect it's complicated a bit by the fact that rare earths are typically used in very small component parts, so the extraction for recycling is probably a pain.

... but I don't know.

Yes, that is the technical issue - not only is it in small quantities in a device, but they are also surrounded by hard plastics or other materials.


Zanza

A last picture from the protests around the open pit coal mine in Germany:


Richard Hakluyt

The rare earths chemically resemble each other so it can be quite difficult to separate them from each other. This is also the cause of their apparent rarity. They are all more common than silver, some of them hundreds of times more common, the rarest only seven times more common. The most common is about as third as abundant as copper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust

Silver's atomic number is 47 the rare earths are 57-70.

I would therefore imagine that China's dominance is based on price but there are plenty of alternative sources that we could exploit if needed.


Barrister

Quote from: grumbler on January 12, 2023, 09:13:22 PMRare earth elements are not rare.  China dominated mining and processing because labor there is cheap, not because they have any sort of monopoly on the ore.  US production amounts to about 15% of the current global extraction, up sharply since the decision to subsidize production.  US processing remains much lower than extraction, but that, too, is changing.

It's fair for Sweden to have the largest deposit in Europe, since Swedes pretty much invented the industry.

Pet peeve of mine for a long time (as the owner of a BSc in Environmental Science/Geology) - we're not going to run out of any mineral, or hydrocarbon.  It's always a matter of how much do you want to pay to extract said mineral or hydrocarbon.  "Peak oil" (which is a term you don't hear much of any more) will be a thing at some point, but not because we run out of oil, but because we've traditioned to other energy sources.  But if you want to pay $1000/bbl we have a vast amount of hydrocarbons available.  Same for rare earth metals.

Grumbles, this is not meant to disagree with you - I'm agreeing with you and giving more detail.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Zanza on January 15, 2023, 03:37:43 AMA last picture from the protests around the open pit coal mine in Germany:


I wonder if the greenies present at the protest are aware that the green hate towards nucleair is quite a big part of the reason Germany is coaling so heavily.

Zanza

The protest is rather hostile to the Green Party, but I guess those Greens present are aware.

A continuity between the protesters there and those that eventually led a conservative government to decide on phasing out nuclear energy is not a given. This group seems mainly concerned with climate change.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Zanza on January 15, 2023, 03:37:43 AMA last picture from the protests around the open pit coal mine in Germany:



Very Avatar-esque.

Syt

I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tonitrus

#883
I am skeptical of the efficacy of the long-distance pumping of grain through underground pipes. :hmm:

Richard Hakluyt

Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 12, 2023, 09:13:22 PMRare earth elements are not rare.  China dominated mining and processing because labor there is cheap, not because they have any sort of monopoly on the ore.  US production amounts to about 15% of the current global extraction, up sharply since the decision to subsidize production.  US processing remains much lower than extraction, but that, too, is changing.

It's fair for Sweden to have the largest deposit in Europe, since Swedes pretty much invented the industry.

Pet peeve of mine for a long time (as the owner of a BSc in Environmental Science/Geology) - we're not going to run out of any mineral, or hydrocarbon.  It's always a matter of how much do you want to pay to extract said mineral or hydrocarbon.  "Peak oil" (which is a term you don't hear much of any more) will be a thing at some point, but not because we run out of oil, but because we've traditioned to other energy sources.  But if you want to pay $1000/bbl we have a vast amount of hydrocarbons available.  Same for rare earth metals.

Grumbles, this is not meant to disagree with you - I'm agreeing with you and giving more detail.

I can add that effectively all the free oxygen in the atmosphere is the result of photosynthesis by plants. As they do this they sequester carbon dioxide, sometimes for the long term if there are peat bogs etc etc.
I think, therefore, that if we ever succeeded in burning all the sequestered carbon there would be no oxygen left in the atmosphere. So peak fossil fuels never worried me even at its most fashionable; we would asphyxiate long before we ran out  :P