Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I find the punitive shelling of civilian infrastructure in Kharkiv especially disdainful. Fucking barbarians.

Not to mention 2 can play that game. Belgorod is just across the Russian border.

Ukraine is more civilized than that. Same like with those messages they sent to all the Russian mobile phones in Ukraine. A soldier  called to surrender but wasn't too sure, afraid he'd be killed. But the operator on the other end told him that Ukraine follows the Geneva conventions, unlike Russia.

[Legbiter]

Nuts to that.  The Ukrainians have maintained the moral high ground all through this war precisely because they don't do nonsense like that.

I mean it's a shame that the West made Ukraine promise not to use the weaponry given to them to strike inside Russia proper as Belgorod has valid military targets, but they're not striking at civilians.

The Ukrainians can absolutely blow up electricity infrastructure around Belgorod with their own weapons from behind the border now. Even if only to send a message. Probably they have other priority targets though.

[Barrister]

Apparently multiple Russian units stationed in/around Kherson west of the Dnipro river are negotiating their surrender.

With the Ukrainians continually hitting any river crossings these units are cut off from supplies.

[PDH]

Apparently multiple Russian units stationed in/around Kherson west of the Dnipro river are negotiating their surrender.

With the Ukrainians continually hitting any river crossings these units are cut off from supplies.

That rumor has been floating around for a few hours now, I am not sure of its basis in reality - if true, it is a very good sign for the Ukrainians.

The Russians did announce they were pulling back from the perimeter closer to Kherson, which seems to signal more than just a realignment.  They are not only announcing their inability to supply the units there (it seems the reason is to be under the artillery coverage coming from the east bank), but also a withdrawal while engaged with the enemy can be a very dangerous thing.

All in all, the situation there is not as rosy as the Tankies claim, I doubt 10,000 Ukrainians have died in the past week as claimed, but it does not seem to be a rout...yet.  Give it an hour or more and I will be shown to be wrong, though I suspect days.

[Barrister]

Apparently multiple Russian units stationed in/around Kherson west of the Dnipro river are negotiating their surrender.

With the Ukrainians continually hitting any river crossings these units are cut off from supplies.

That rumor has been floating around for a few hours now, I am not sure of its basis in reality - if true, it is a very good sign for the Ukrainians.

The Russians did announce they were pulling back from the perimeter closer to Kherson, which seems to signal more than just a realignment.  They are not only announcing their inability to supply the units there (it seems the reason is to be under the artillery coverage coming from the east bank), but also a withdrawal while engaged with the enemy can be a very dangerous thing.

All in all, the situation there is not as rosy as the Tankies claim, I doubt 10,000 Ukrainians have died in the past week as claimed, but it does not seem to be a rout...yet.  Give it an hour or more and I will be shown to be wrong, though I suspect days.

It was stated by a Ukrainian MOD spokesperson.

But Ukrainians do seem to manage the infowar elements pretty well, so the fact such stories are out there is certainly not accidental.

[Legbiter]

Ukrainian tractors hauling abandoned Russian tanks is back with a vengeance as a subgenre.    

[Zoupa]

Not sure how many Languish users are on Twitter, but if you are you've probably come across the Fellas/NAFO. I've been a member since June and wanted to share my little dude:



And for those who don't know about NAFO:

https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin-ukraine-twitter-trolling-social-media-meme/

"The shit-posting, Twitter-trolling, dog-deploying social media army taking on Putin one meme at a time."

[Threviel]

Normally in battle you aren't after a total annihilation of the enemy but their retreat. If the Ukrainians want the Russians out of Kherson they should leave them an avenue of retreat. Make it a bad avenue forcing them to do a Falaise pocket retreat if possible, but still a retreat. That way they achieve their objectives with minimal loss of Ukrainian lives. A cornered enemy with no avenue of retreat is simply forced to fight it out and that's a lot costlier.

It looks like this is not what they are doing, they have himarsed every bridge and every way out. The Russians have no choice but to fight it out or retreat. Possibly much more expensive in terms of Ukrainian lives for what is essentially the same result. Remember, there are no supplies coming for trapped Ukrainian civilians either.

On the other hand, if the Russians surrender it's probably game over for the Russians.

[Legbiter]

Not sure how many Languish users are on Twitter, but if you are you've probably come across the Fellas/NAFO. I've been a member since June and wanted to share my little dude:

Impressive. Very nice

[crazy canuck]

Normally in battle you aren't after a total annihilation of the enemy but their retreat. If the Ukrainians want the Russians out of Kherson they should leave them an avenue of retreat. Make it a bad avenue forcing them to do a Falaise pocket retreat if possible, but still a retreat. That way they achieve their objectives with minimal loss of Ukrainian lives. A cornered enemy with no avenue of retreat is simply forced to fight it out and that's a lot costlier.

It looks like this is not what they are doing, they have himarsed every bridge and every way out. The Russians have no choice but to fight it out or retreat. Possibly much more expensive in terms of Ukrainian lives for what is essentially the same result. Remember, there are no supplies coming for trapped Ukrainian civilians either.

On the other hand, if the Russians surrender it's probably game over for the Russians.

obtaining the surrender of all those troops would probably have significant political ramifications inside Russia.

[PDH]

It was stated by a Ukrainian MOD spokesperson.

But Ukrainians do seem to manage the infowar elements pretty well, so the fact such stories are out there is certainly not accidental.

Yeah, I have read that as well.  I just don't know the size and scale of such.  Apparently units on the Russian side have been negotiating for a bit now.  If it is large scale, then it is the collapse.

[PDH]

One thing also to bear in mind is that the Autumn mud season is coming, and while it is not as severe in the South, it will impact things if the rains are heavy.  By impacting things I mean it will screw up Russian supply lines likely worse than the Ukrainian ones, as the Russians have show no aptitude for logistics.

[Barrister]

Normally in battle you aren't after a total annihilation of the enemy but their retreat. If the Ukrainians want the Russians out of Kherson they should leave them an avenue of retreat. Make it a bad avenue forcing them to do a Falaise pocket retreat if possible, but still a retreat. That way they achieve their objectives with minimal loss of Ukrainian lives. A cornered enemy with no avenue of retreat is simply forced to fight it out and that's a lot costlier.

It looks like this is not what they are doing, they have himarsed every bridge and every way out. The Russians have no choice but to fight it out or retreat. Possibly much more expensive in terms of Ukrainian lives for what is essentially the same result. Remember, there are no supplies coming for trapped Ukrainian civilians either.

On the other hand, if the Russians surrender it's probably game over for the Russians.

It's not like the Russians are bringing in supplies for civilians at the best of times.

I hear what you're saying, but given the absolutely horrendous morale of the Russian forces I think the odds of them putting up a heroic last stand (ala Mariupol) is pretty low.

[Barrister]

Reports attributed to the Moscow Times (though not on their English page as of yet) are that Putin has retreated to his Sochi mansion and cancelled meetings with military staff.

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1569334222242070536

[PDH]

And my Albertan Legal Friend, you might be right too.  The end is inevitable in Kherson, I just think that the Russians can't even surrender correctly (or the security forces there are still using threats of violence to keep it from happening).

The surrender can't happen soon enough.