TV/Movies Megathread

[Habbaku]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

[Barrister]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

I think the "problem" is that both of those movies can be enjoyed unironically as well, without tapping into the satire element.

[Sheilbh]

But isn't that what makes them good films?

[The Larch]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

Incredible amounts of people are extremely thick. It always amazes me how lots and lots of people don't seem to get extremely blatant messages because they don't fit with their mental schemes.

[Admiral Yi]

Rewatched Argo on Flix and there is not a lot there.  And every time I watch Ben Affleck he looks goofier and goofier to me.

[Syt]

Wisecrack have a decent video about Verhoeven in their "Deep or Dumb?" series, looking primarily at Total Recall, Starship Troopers, and Showgirls:

[Josquius]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

When I first saw it when I was 10 I took it at face value and thought it genuinely awesome for what it was on its very shallow surface.

Fascism has shown itself a very capable ideology of taking control of large numbers of people.

Maybe lots of people just never develop beyond this black and white goodies and baddies cool is cool stage?

And I do think today it was a good film with much of its cheese being on purpose. And this stuff is so overpowering and rapid fire that the genuine bits of bad film making can be ignored.

[Habbaku]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

Incredible amounts of people are extremely thick. It always amazes me how lots and lots of people don't seem to get extremely blatant messages because they don't fit with their mental schemes.

I agree completely, but we have Wags and Celedhring (two people that are not at all extremely thick) apparently not getting the extremely blatant message in ST.

[Sheilbh]

Wisecrack have a decent video about Verhoeven in their "Deep or Dumb?" series, looking primarily at Total Recall, Starship Troopers, and Showgirls:

Yeah I basically agree with that video.

I think maybe satire is the wrong word. But I think it is deliberate - but it is also absolutely deliberately enjoying the violence and sex. He's always seemed to me like if John Waters got to make big action films and erotic thrillers (i.e. a better world ).

I don't think it's satire, or kitsch - I think it's camp. Which, of course, is in itself quite funny in big action films and Showgirls

Edit: In particular, from Sontag: "Camp is art that proposes itself seriously, but cannot be taken altogether seriously because it is 'too much.'"

[The Larch]

How anyone can watch RoboCop and think that Starship Troopers isn't intended by Verhoeven as satire is beyond me. 

Incredible amounts of people are extremely thick. It always amazes me how lots and lots of people don't seem to get extremely blatant messages because they don't fit with their mental schemes.

I agree completely, but we have Wags and Celedhring (two people that are not at all extremely thick) apparently not getting the extremely blatant message in ST.

I know cel and I'm absolutely sure he gets it, only he thinks there's more than that going on in the movie.

[celedhring]

My take on Verhoeven is that towards the end of his American careeer he tended to use the "it's satire!" thing more as a shield than a weapon, so to speak. He made super campy bad movies, with terrible acting, cardboard characters, lots of T&A, bad stories, and put a veneer of satire to make them look highbrow. This is far more blatant in Showgirls. I repeat that I enjoy these films, they are really fun, but they are not good movies, nor particularly deep satires IMHO.

Compare ST with Total Recall, which is an incredibly smart and engaging film despite also using extreme violence and T&A (three "T"s at that). The whole way he highlights the "kill the bad guys, get the girl, save the world" aspirational element of American action films is really great. I think it's his best American film (and one of his best films overall).

[Syt]

My take on Verhoeven is that towards the end of his American careeer he tended to use the "it's satire!" thing more as a shield than a weapon, so to speak. He made super campy bad movies, with terrible acting, cardboard characters, lots of T&A, bad stories, and put a veneer of satire to make them look highbrow. This is far more blatant in Showgirls. I repeat that I enjoy these films, they are really fun, but they are not good movies, nor particularly deep satires.

I guess an argument could be made that those movies would be more akin to high budget versions of Troma's more ambitious films?

[celedhring]

Maybe? I will admit that I haven't watched a Troma film in like 15 years or so 

[celedhring]

Incidentally, I have this indelible memory of watching Robocop during a school trip, and being deeply traumatized by the "you have 20 seconds to comply" scene. Still don't know whose idea was to show that film to a bunch of 10 year olds, but it was the higlight of the trip 

[Duque de Bragança]

My take on Verhoeven is that towards the end of his American careeer he tended to use the "it's satire!" thing more as a shield than a weapon, so to speak. He made super campy bad movies, with terrible acting, cardboard characters, lots of T&A, bad stories, and put a veneer of satire to make them look highbrow. This is far more blatant in Showgirls. I repeat that I enjoy these films, they are really fun, but they are not good movies, nor particularly deep satires.

I guess an argument could be made that those movies would be more akin to high budget versions of Troma's more ambitious films?

Only if you have no idea of what a Troma (or Verhoeven) movie looks like.