Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[The Larch]

Is it just me, or did LinkedIn become the cesspool of Russian propaganda?  Or is it just selection bias, because I don't even dare venture anywhere else?

How so? I haven't realized anything.

[crazy canuck]

Is it just me, or did LinkedIn become the cesspool of Russian propaganda?  Or is it just selection bias, because I don't even dare venture anywhere else?

I haven't seen any. Must be who you were linked with?

[celedhring]

Yeah, nothing on my side either.

[Syt]

I get the occasional usual "critical thinker" BS about vaccines, but what Ukraine related stuff I see is pro-Ukraine.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah same. If anything the opposite (especially from former colleagues in Poland).

[DGuller]

Must be the places I look at then.  No, it doesn't come through my connections (and if it did, they wouldn't be my connection anymore, I only had to axe one and contemplated axing one more). 

I was wondering about that after clicking on a news story about Biden calling it a genocide, and seeing a sizable share of garbage Russian propaganda talking points of various levels of subtlety in the comments.  LinkedIn gives you a feed of top news stories, and the commenters on those may have no connection to you in any way, so it's less filtered.

[Zanza]

German chancellor Scholz declined an invitation for a Kyiv visit from Zelensky after the diplomatic humiliation for German president Steinmeier.

Ukraine is of course free to pick its friends, but this diplomatic spat will significantly dimish their prospects for support from Germany, both directly (weapons, money) and indirectly (EU sanctions, candidacy). There is  a significant group of people in Scholz and Steinmeiers party that don't want to deliver heavy weapons for example.

Like some other Central Europeans, the Ukrainians seem to consider past entanglements between Germany and Russia and Germany's role in the Minsk agreements so problematic that they rather confront Germany now then seek its support. It's a fair choice as Germany's past actions are objectionable, but I fail to see how that helps them now.

[Jacob]

Wow, Russian women can be pretty chill.  One of them on a recorded phone call gave an okay to her husband to rape Ukrainian women, just as long as he used protection.  Lots of giggling by both parties had been had.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garbanzo0813/status/1513882209349947396

That's why they make the bulk of prostitutes here in the west.

I don't it's true that Russian women make the bulk of prostitutes here in the West is because they're "chill".

I think it's a combination of economic imperatives and the fact that Russian culture - as we've discussed - is structured to be tolerant abusive and brutalizing the individual. If conscripts in the army are prostituted out - as we've seen reported as a regular occurrence - it's hardly surprising that vulnerable women find themselves in situations where they are trafficked and prostituted, or where prostitution is the only viable economic choice for survival. That does not imply they're "chill" about it, except insofar as they have no better choice available. IMO.

[Jacob]

German chancellor Scholz declined an invitation for a Kyiv visit from Zelensky after the diplomatic humiliation for German president Steinmeier.

Ukraine is of course free to pick its friends, but this diplomatic spat will significantly dimish their prospects for support from Germany, both directly (weapons, money) and indirectly (EU sanctions, candidacy). There is  a significant group of people in Scholz and Steinmeiers party that don't want to deliver heavy weapons for example.

Like some other Central Europeans, the Ukrainians seem to consider past entanglements between Germany and Russia and Germany's role in the Minsk agreements so problematic that they rather confront Germany now then seek its support. It's a fair choice as Germany's past actions are objectionable, but I fail to see how that helps them now.

Yeah, from my perspective that was not a clever diplomatic move from Zelenskyy. Hopefully it doesn't get out of hand.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

German chancellor Scholz declined an invitation for a Kyiv visit from Zelensky after the diplomatic humiliation for German president Steinmeier.

Ukraine is of course free to pick its friends, but this diplomatic spat will significantly dimish their prospects for support from Germany, both directly (weapons, money) and indirectly (EU sanctions, candidacy). There is  a significant group of people in Scholz and Steinmeiers party that don't want to deliver heavy weapons for example.

Like some other Central Europeans, the Ukrainians seem to consider past entanglements between Germany and Russia and Germany's role in the Minsk agreements so problematic that they rather confront Germany now then seek its support. It's a fair choice as Germany's past actions are objectionable, but I fail to see how that helps them now.

Yeah, from my perspective that was not a clever diplomatic move from Zelenskyy. Hopefully it doesn't get out of hand.

No longer helping Ukraine will show that the Germans haven't really changed though and that they were looking for an excuse to do less to nothing asap though.

[Barrister]

German chancellor Scholz declined an invitation for a Kyiv visit from Zelensky after the diplomatic humiliation for German president Steinmeier.

Ukraine is of course free to pick its friends, but this diplomatic spat will significantly dimish their prospects for support from Germany, both directly (weapons, money) and indirectly (EU sanctions, candidacy). There is  a significant group of people in Scholz and Steinmeiers party that don't want to deliver heavy weapons for example.

Like some other Central Europeans, the Ukrainians seem to consider past entanglements between Germany and Russia and Germany's role in the Minsk agreements so problematic that they rather confront Germany now then seek its support. It's a fair choice as Germany's past actions are objectionable, but I fail to see how that helps them now.

In different circumstances I would probably agree with you.

But given that Ukraine is in the middle of a war for it's survival, that tens of thousands of its citizens have been killed, and millions displaced, I really think Germany should question whether they are going to withhold aid because Zelenskyy was impolite to your leaders.

[Sheilbh]

In different circumstances I would probably agree with you.

But given that Ukraine is in the middle of a war for it's survival, that tens of thousands of its citizens have been killed, and millions displaced, I really think Germany should question whether they are going to withhold aid because Zelenskyy was impolite to your leaders.

I think I agree. I mean this is from the SPD's account and is - in the context, absurd (Google translated):

SPD-Fraktion im Bundestag
@spdbt
Rolf #Mützenich on the Ukraine cancellation of #Steinmeier visit to Kiev: "That is regrettable and does not do justice to the close + grown relationships between our countries. Nevertheless, we will make sure that this process does not endanger our cooperation will." 1/2
"With all due respect for the existential threat to Ukraine from the Russian invasion, I expect Ukrainian representatives to adhere to a minimum of diplomatic conventions and not interfere unduly in our country's domestic politics." 2/2

In part because a "close and developed" relationship isn't something that you just say exists. From Ukraine's perspective Steinmeier especially is very closely tied to Schroeder, to Nord Stream II and to Minsk - where Germany and Ukraine have not been close. I'd add that in that article I read about the Ukrainian Ambassador, Germany's finance minister told him shortly after the invasion that there was basically no point in sending aid to Ukraine because in 48 hours Germany would have to deal with the puppet regime. Again I don't think you get to be that blunt if you don't like being called out afterwards.

As I say I think the counter-factual that matters for Ukraine is - would Germany be sending them more weapons and ammo if they were more polite, or do they get more by kicking up a fuss. I'm not sure they'd be getting more German support if they were appropriately polite. Not least because I'm not sure the target audience is Germany as much as Germany's EU and NATO partners, because I think (as Alex Clarkson put it) I'm not sure Germany is really as much in control of how much support it gives if all of NATO and EU except Hungary want to do more. I think it will boil down to the same choice we've seen all through the crisis of Scholz can look pro-active and win credit and trust, or he can look reluctant and a bit clumsy, eroding trust during the delay and not earning any credit for ultimately doing the right thing.

[Sheilbh]

Semi-relatedly Zelensky's latest list of requests:
https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1514242356949704709?s=20&t=9Lze1MYKGR3Vfq7z2bsEhA

[Jacob]

Yeah, that's all true too.

[Jacob]

So I'm seeing reported that LePen is saying that she wants to facilitate a strategic reconciliation between NATO and Russia "as soon as the war is over". And furthermore, she's doubtful about providing military aid to Ukraine.

Fuck, I hope the people of France do the right thing here and not elect her.