Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[celedhring]

The Bayraktar song also calls Russian "bandits" orcs.

I remember Ilia Ponomarenko calling Moscow "Barad-Dur" in the run-up to the war.

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah Threviel - I agree that Europe needs to plan for the case where the US elects Trump and Trump moves to support Russia over Ukraine. But I'm not sure I understand your special animus against Germany here.

Trump wouldn't be supporting Russia vs Ukraine. Trump was supplying Javelins and other nasty equipment to Ukraine when he was in office. I'd bet that he'd would be a lot faster in getting US armaments to Ukraine than it seems things are going now.

This is the sort of idiotic talking point that's going around in GOP circles, I assume. Because it has a veneer of reality while ignoring literally every detail possible about what happened.

It also points to how Trump will run in 2024. If the war is still going on, "nobody is more anti-Russia than me." He loves winning more than Putin.

[grumbler]

I'm pretty skeptical that the current round of Russophobia in Europe is more robust than the century old tradition in America.

Russophobia is older in Europe than the lifetime of the US.

[Tamas]

I don't think the "orc" thing is that big a deal. I have heard it used as a racist slur on gypsies in Hungary.

[Jacob]

Trump wouldn't be supporting Russia vs Ukraine. Trump was supplying Javelins and other nasty equipment to Ukraine when he was in office. I'd bet that he'd would be a lot faster in getting US armaments to Ukraine than it seems things are going now.

The same guy who held back military aid to Ukraine because Zelenksyy didn't manufacture evidence against Hunter Biden? And who widely declared that Russia invading Ukraine was "smart"?

You have more faith in Trump than I do, but I hope you're right. Personally I expect Trump to sell out Ukraine for personal gain. On the upside, Trump may enjoy humiliating Putin if he thinks he can get away with it.

[Sheilbh]

Full video of Zelensky and Johnson wlking around Kyiv. As it says the soldiers around them look pretty tense and I imagine it must have aged their close protection officers by about 20 years But I really love the woman at the end (last 30 seconds or so) who gives them ceramic roosters (from the kitchen cabinet meme in Ukraine):
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1512899493439623175?s=20&t=fSSN2wA9t_-hVAUPCePqzA

It's pretty incredible to see scenes like that in Kyiv now. I thought Ukraine was more cohesive and would put up a stronger fight than Putin expected but to be honest I probably thought that a Russian invasion would succeed, even if it was through brutal advances. That a leader from another country can walk through Kyiv, that normal citizens are on the streets handing out ceramic poultry six weeks in is a remarkable testimony to just how robust Ukrainians' resistance has been.

[Jacob]

What's with this orcs slur?
I've seen it popping up on reddit too and leading to lots of deleted posts and bans from the Ukraine sub.

Ukrainians started calling the Russian invaders "Orcs" pretty much from day one of the invasion.

It's pretty apt, honestly. They're cruel and abusive, low morale, serve and evil empire, and have been shaped into that by cruel an abusive military institutions.

[Jacob]

Other random things I've come across:

1) A claim that oil companies are blending oil shipments at 49.9% Russian oil, so they can sell it as not Russian. No companies named though.

2) Another claim that morning after pills are a highly requested form of non-military aid, for obvious but ugly reasons.

[PDH]

Good read on the Ukrainian modernization of their army since 2014:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/ukraines-iron-general-zaluzhnyy-00023901

Apologies if it has already been linked.

[Barrister]

Good read on the Ukrainian modernization of their army since 2014:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/ukraines-iron-general-zaluzhnyy-00023901

Apologies if it has already been linked.

Good read.  Thanks.

[PJL]

It's not that Trump wouldn't support Ukraine, he might. It's that he, or any other retard republican, is so unpredictable. The US cannot be trusted, any help from there is a bonus. It's just too unpredictable.

Exactly. I can just as easily imagine Trump sending in troops to fight Russia as cutting all aid and support.

I actually think Putin thinks the same, and it's the reason why he didn't do anything too dramatic while Trump was in office. Yes, he knew that he was easy to please, but I get the impression that in some respects Putin would prefer Biden to Trump, if only because Biden is more predictable.

[PJL]

What's with this orcs slur?
I've seen it popping up on reddit too and leading to lots of deleted posts and bans from the Ukraine sub.

Ukrainians started calling the Russian invaders "Orcs" pretty much from day one of the invasion.

It's pretty apt, honestly. They're cruel and abusive, low morale, serve and evil empire, and have been shaped into that by cruel and abusive military institutions.

Given the circumstances, I can see why the USSR banned LOTR - the analogy is very apt right now/

[Sheilbh]

Obviously this is just football fans. But pro-war chants from Red Star Belgrade fans:
https://twitter.com/JasminMuj/status/1512866681269284864?s=20&t=94Xjnmz-iDo9FHDws6pTAA

I think Serbia's the only European country, apart from Belarus, to not sanction Russia. It's crazy that they are technically a candidate country for the EU, while Ukraine isn't. It is difficult to kick out countries in the EU, but I can't see a reason to keep going with Serbia's candidacy given the conduct of their government generally and that they're clearly not aligned on core European values - like not invading your neighbours.

[Tonitrus]

What's with this orcs slur?
I've seen it popping up on reddit too and leading to lots of deleted posts and bans from the Ukraine sub.

Ukrainians started calling the Russian invaders "Orcs" pretty much from day one of the invasion.

It's pretty apt, honestly. They're cruel and abusive, low morale, serve and evil empire, and have been shaped into that by cruel an abusive military institutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

Putin would be the "lord of the lash" in this case...

[Admiral Yi]

Obviously this is just football fans. But pro-war chants from Red Star Belgrade fans:
https://twitter.com/JasminMuj/status/1512866681269284864?s=20&t=94Xjnmz-iDo9FHDws6pTAA

I think Serbia's the only European country, apart from Belarus, to not sanction Russia. It's crazy that they are technically a candidate country for the EU, while Ukraine isn't. It is difficult to kick out countries in the EU, but I can't see a reason to keep going with Serbia's candidacy given the conduct of their government generally and that they're clearly not aligned on core European values - like not invading your neighbours.

I like the two older dudes in the front row.  The little boy with the Nazi salute is scary.