Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Josquius]

My wife and I have been trying to convince her relatives who live in Ukraine to come to Canada, but so far none are willing to leave. Even though we could sponsor them and have places for them to stay. They simply refuse to be driven out. Fortunately they are in the Western part of the country.

My sister in law (my wife's brother's wife) has a brother whose son is in the Ukrainian army. Of course they are all worried about his safety. No word yet on where he is.

Worried if they leave they'll never be able to go back or so?
As seems strange to me they wouldn't go for a short holiday at your place at least.

[Maladict]

My wife and I have been trying to convince her relatives who live in Ukraine to come to Canada, but so far none are willing to leave. Even though we could sponsor them and have places for them to stay. They simply refuse to be driven out. Fortunately they are in the Western part of the country.

My sister in law (my wife's brother's wife) has a brother whose son is in the Ukrainian army. Of course they are all worried about his safety. No word yet on where he is.

Worried if they leave they'll never be able to go back or so?
As seems strange to me they wouldn't go for a short holiday at your place at least.

Not exactly a holiday is it? Which is probably the reason they're not leaving.

[Josquius]

Not exactly a holiday is it? Which is probably the reason they're not leaving.

"Holiday", I meant.
Getting out temporarily whilst things are looking very unsteady in the country but life in your town goes on largely as normal for now strikes me as quite different to those from the east who their houses bombed must flee for their lives.  Just going on holiday for a bit fits into the normal life frame quite easily vs. being a refugee.

[Malthus]

My wife and I have been trying to convince her relatives who live in Ukraine to come to Canada, but so far none are willing to leave. Even though we could sponsor them and have places for them to stay. They simply refuse to be driven out. Fortunately they are in the Western part of the country.

My sister in law (my wife's brother's wife) has a brother whose son is in the Ukrainian army. Of course they are all worried about his safety. No word yet on where he is.

Worried if they leave they'll never be able to go back or so?
As seems strange to me they wouldn't go for a short holiday at your place at least.

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

The mood seems to be that this is *their* country, and they simply won't have Russians driving them out of it. If they have to put up with some hardship, so be it.

[Tamas]

I would love if the media stopped relying on so called polling from Russia on judging how popular the war is. Even before the war, in Russia, if somebody called you up to ask what you think of Putin or one of his policies, seriously how many people would have the bravery to answer honestly? I don't understand how such polling data is still being reported. Might as well believe the Russian claims on ethnic cleansing in the Donbas, that hs more chances to be correct than any of these so called polls.

[Malthus]

I would love if the media stopped relying on so called polling from Russia on judging how popular the war is. Even before the war, in Russia, if somebody called you up to ask what you think of Putin or one of his policies, seriously how many people would have the bravery to answer honestly? I don't understand how such polling data is still being reported. Might as well believe the Russian claims on ethnic cleansing in the Donbas, that hs more chances to be correct than any of these so called polls.

Reminds me of that old joke about Syrian elections.

An official to Assad: "Congratulations, Sir! You won 98% of the vote!"

Assad: "Goddam it!" (Pounds table angrily)

Official: "why are you upset? You won 98% of the vote! what more do you want!?"

Assad: "the names of the 2%."

[Legbiter]

Twitter is just awash with horror today.

Video after video of streets littered with civilian corpses lying in the streets where they were gunned down.

Russian paratroopers from the first failed assaults just heaped in piles, seemingly untouched since they were dumped there.

Streets clogged with countless burnt out Russian tanks, APCs and trucks.

Those forces who came in from Belarus were some of the best Russia had. If this is bad for the Russians now after a month imagine how things will look once May rolls around.

[Maladict]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

[Josquius]

Considering Ukranian advances in the north it looks like they could get to the Russian border soon... I wonder what happens then.
Invading does make sense to draw Russians away from their invasion in the south.
But that's quite a huge leap.

[garbon]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

I'm not sure that works in reverse.

[Malthus]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

The issue is why. I mean, the country is being invaded by hordes of enemies who have no compunction about killing civilians. I'd be pretty eager to get my family out if I had the choice and the resources to do so.

 Anya, for example, is an elderly lady, and leaving Ukraine isn't all that foreign to her - she lived with us in Canada for two years when my son was an infant, just to earn some cash and to take care of family ... why not leave now for a while? It isn't like she's needed to fight off Russians.

From what I've heard, the reason is basically defiance.

[DGuller]

Getting out may be prudent for personal reasons, but you may also feel like you're abandoning your friends in the country during a hard time.  When everyone in your social circle is resolute, taking a safe choice feels like cowardice, and we're conditioned to be afraid to look cowardly.

[PDH]

By the look of the equipment, the numbers dead, and general chaos of the "pull back" in the North, those troops aren't going to be reinforcing the South any time soon.  They will have to integrate new soldiers, find new equipment (and as reported with the 4th Guards Tank the equipment replacement leave just a bit to be desired), and generally rest.

It is not a strategic move of fronts, it is an all out retreat to avoid annihilation

[Maladict]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

The issue is why. I mean, the country is being invaded by hordes of enemies who have no compunction about killing civilians. I'd be pretty eager to get my family out if I had the choice and the resources to do so.

 Anya, for example, is an elderly lady, and leaving Ukraine isn't all that foreign to her - she lived with us in Canada for two years when my son was an infant, just to earn some cash and to take care of family ... why not leave now for a while? It isn't like she's needed to fight off Russians.

From what I've heard, the reason is basically defiance.

Elderly people do get unreasonably stubborn, I'll give you that.

And obviously you know your relatives better than I do. But a lot of people stay behind in war zones, in any war. Stubbornness alone seems too simple an explanation to me.

[Maladict]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

I'm not sure that works in reverse.

Because he doesn't live in the western part of the country? I can see how that makes it too complicated