Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[crazy canuck]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

I'm not sure that works in reverse.

Because he doesn't live in the western part of the country? I can see how that makes it too complicated 

In fairness if he did live in BC he would not want to leave. 

[viper37]

Twitter is just awash with horror today.

Video after video of streets littered with civilian corpses lying in the streets where they were gunned down.

Russian paratroopers from the first failed assaults just heaped in piles, seemingly untouched since they were dumped there.

Streets clogged with countless burnt out Russian tanks, APCs and trucks.

Those forces who came in from Belarus were some of the best Russia had. If this is bad for the Russians now after a month imagine how things will look once May rolls around.

It's the usual Russian strategy to throw bodies at the ennemy.  There's nothing different here.  They're retreating and regrouping.  Either Ukraine attacks heavily defended position and suffers more casualties, casualities it can't replace while Russia still has a lot more room to maneouver there, or Ukraine accepts to lose 1/3 of its territory.

[viper37]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

I'm not sure that works in reverse.

Because he doesn't live in the western part of the country? I can see how that makes it too complicated 

 Depends who invades.  If it's Denmark mounting an offensive from Greenland and going after Hans Island, Malthus will have time to think about where he should emigrate.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I would love if the media stopped relying on so called polling from Russia on judging how popular the war is. Even before the war, in Russia, if somebody called you up to ask what you think of Putin or one of his policies, seriously how many people would have the bravery to answer honestly? I don't understand how such polling data is still being reported. Might as well believe the Russian claims on ethnic cleansing in the Donbas, that hs more chances to be correct than any of these so called polls.

Eh, the pollster doing this is the most respected polling firm that polls Russia, and is fully aware (likely far better than you) of the various issues involved. Polling is not perfect anywhere, even the United States, but it is silly to act like you can't get any form of impression at all of views. Much can be achieved with carefully crafted questions that can avoid putting a respondent in the position of having to directly criticize the government or Putin.

[Legbiter]

By the look of the equipment, the numbers dead, and general chaos of the "pull back" in the North, those troops aren't going to be reinforcing the South any time soon.  They will have to integrate new soldiers, find new equipment (and as reported with the 4th Guards Tank the equipment replacement leave just a bit to be desired), and generally rest.

It is not a strategic move of fronts, it is an all out retreat to avoid annihilation

Yeah at this rate it'll be the Russians asking for territorial guarantees and protection from Ukrainian aggression.

[Duque de Bragança]

Depends who invades.  If it's Denmark mounting an offensive from Greenland and going after Hans Island, Malthus will have time to think about where he should emigrate.

It would not be the first time two NATO countries fought each other over an island. 

[Legbiter]

It would not be the first time two NATO countries fought each other over an island. 

That wasn't cricket. The civilized NATO thing to do would be to fight over the fish surrounding the island. *puffs on pipe* 

[Malthus]

Not sure if I fully understand it, but from what I gather it is pure stubbornness (and patriotism).

Is it though? Would you happily take your family on a plane to your relatives in Ukraine and leave everyone else and all your belongings behind in Canada? I don't think that would be an easy decision at all.

The issue is why. I mean, the country is being invaded by hordes of enemies who have no compunction about killing civilians. I'd be pretty eager to get my family out if I had the choice and the resources to do so.

 Anya, for example, is an elderly lady, and leaving Ukraine isn't all that foreign to her - she lived with us in Canada for two years when my son was an infant, just to earn some cash and to take care of family ... why not leave now for a while? It isn't like she's needed to fight off Russians.

From what I've heard, the reason is basically defiance.

Elderly people do get unreasonably stubborn, I'll give you that.

And obviously you know your relatives better than I do. But a lot of people stay behind in war zones, in any war. Stubbornness alone seems too simple an explanation to me.

A lot of elderly people in war zones lack the resources to leave, though. I mean, they may not be fortunate enough to have relations in a foreign nation willing to put them up. If they leave, they may fear they will become basically beggars in a foreign land.

[Josquius]

A lot of elderly people are afraid to even move 2 towns over so...

[DGuller]

Sounds like Bucha is the new Srebrenica.  I know I shouldn't be shocked, but yet I still am. 

[Tamas]

I would very much doubt my parents (in their 70s and 60s) would agree to leave their home of 40+ years abandoned and come seek shelter with me in the UK if war came to their country. Probably only if the frontline got close enough to make destruction of what they built in four decades a certainty. Even then I am not sure I'd be able to convince them.

[DGuller]

As for why I believe the Russian poll numbers, here's a video proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tusx17/russians_insulting_ukrainian_on_omegle/

Yes, I know, the clips could be chosen selectively, but the fact that there are so many clips from a single guy is telling enough.  The sad thing is that because of nuclear weapons, that society will probably never go through denazification.

[Legbiter]

As for why I believe the Russian poll numbers, here's a video proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tusx17/russians_insulting_ukrainian_on_omegle/

Yes, I know, the clips could be chosen selectively, but the fact that there are so many clips from a single guy is telling enough.  The sad thing is that because of nuclear weapons, that society will probably never go through denazification.

We fund and supply the Ukrainian war effort for as long as they want, if they won't rest until they reach Vladivostok, hey go for it.

[Sheilbh]

Horrendous. From FT reporter, there is footage in this thread from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence - if you want to view:
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1510355711259254789?s=20&t=QccZ0sBEWV4meARVjzsH4Q

max seddon
@maxseddon
Good lord. In Bucha, one of the towns near Kyiv that Russia recently withdrew from, Ukrainian forces found a mass grave with nearly 300 people in it and dozens of civilians lying dead in the streets.

Pure horror.

[Jacob]

It is really very grim.

Get Ukraine tanks, anti-aircraft defences, artillery, and aircraft now.