The Off Topic Topic

[Admiral Yi]

Not necessarily.
As said that's not how it works with taxes on wages. Earn below a certain amount and you pay nothing. It steadily ramps up as you earn more which is fair.
I don't think anyone is calling for all capital gains to be taxed into the ground. Only for more rational taxation to be applied, particularly above a certain level.

And yes. If my house were to double in value over night and place me over the threshold at which taxes should be paid then this would be fine. It's about fairness, not screwing people who aren't you.

Necessarily.  True Tax Rate makes no mention of progressivity or thresholds.  It's saying there is a true tax rate and a fake tax rate. 

You want to change the subject to the fairness of taxing the unrealized capital gains of the very wealthy, which if you were paying attention I have not objected to.  I'm objecting to the deception in the term true tax rate.  If taxing unrealized capital gains of the very wealthy is your idea of fairness, make that argument, don't try to trick people into thinking Buffet and Musk are cheating on their taxes.

[Josquius]

Necessarily.  True Tax Rate makes no mention of progressivity or thresholds.  It's saying there is a true tax rate and a fake tax rate. 

I am not familiar with this "true tax rate" as a concrete fully fleshed out proposal. I'd be really surprised if it didn't follow the usual practice of tax rates. If it does then whoever put together that actual version of this is probably didn't put as much thought into it as they should have. That or they're dumb.

You want to change the subject to the fairness of taxing the unrealized capital gains of the very wealthy, which if you were paying attention I have not objected to.  I'm objecting to the deception in the term true tax rate.  If taxing unrealized capital gains of the very wealthy is your idea of fairness, make that argument, don't try to trick people into thinking Buffet and Musk are cheating on their taxes.

That's not the general line however. Its more that the tax system is fucked up that Buffet pays less than his secretary.

The rich people cheating on their taxes line is more aimed at companies with all their various tricks to help Eg amazon avoid paying very much at all. Though yes, Bezos name gets thrown about as much as amazon itself, its derived from amazon's taxes.

[Admiral Yi]

The general line is Buffet has a shitload of money and we'd like to have it.  That's the essence of the inequality argument.

[Josquius]

The general line is Buffet has a shitload of money and we'd like to have it.  That's the essence of the inequality argument.

I recall Buffet saying it himself, that it's insane such a rich person as hims pays so little.
What we could do with the taxes is one of the key arguments, but equally important if not more so is the fairness one.

[DGuller]

The general line is Buffet has a shitload of money and we'd like to have it.  That's the essence of the inequality argument.

I've been 100% with you so far, but I think now you're the one engaging in strawmen.  I think the problem people have with wealth inequality is that it upsets the balance of power in a democracy. 

Healthy democracy has safeguards against those with power using that power to accumulate even more power.  One way is to make it impossible for the winner of the election to pass a law to execute the losers of the election and all their voters.  Another way is to make sure that those with a lot of wealth don't have so much power over the government that they pass laws that aid them amassing even more wealth (and with it more power).

We're doing well on the first one, but a lot of people concerned about wealth inequality feel that we're not doing as well on the second part.

[Admiral Yi]

I've been 100% with you so far, but I think now you're the one engaging in strawmen.  I think the problem people have with wealth inequality is that it upsets the balance of power in a democracy. 

Healthy democracy has safeguards against those with power using that power to accumulate even more power.  One way is to make it impossible for the winner of the election to pass a law to execute the losers of the election and all their voters.  Another way is to make sure that those with a lot of wealth don't have so much power over the government that they pass laws that aid them amassing even more wealth (and with it more power).

We're doing well on the first one, but a lot of people concerned about wealth inequality feel that we're not doing as well on the second part.

When people say they care about inequality and want to reduce it with no reference to political power, I take them at their word.  How many times have you heard someone say "I'm pretty indifferent about inequality, what I really care about is political influence?"

Take a look at the graphic that started this debate discussion.  None of those four people could be accused of using their wealth to influence laws more in favor of the wealthy.  Only Bloomberg spends money on politics, and that's for things like gun control.  What they have in common is they're prominent and very, very wealthy.

[Josquius]

I just had a dream that gave me the best /worst idea for a horror movie.
Basically there was this dude in a house that was rented out to lots of people... Who hid in the mattresses with an oven glove on his hand and smothered them when they fell asleep.
If they skipped their bed time the man still wearing the mattress just got up and killed them anyway.

I think my subconscious is telling me to be afraid of bed.

[Malthus]

I just had a dream that gave me the best /worst idea for a horror movie.
Basically there was this dude in a house that was rented out to lots of people... Who hid in the mattresses with an oven glove on his hand and smothered them when they fell asleep.
If they skipped their bed time the man still wearing the mattress just got up and killed them anyway.

I think my subconscious is telling me to be afraid of bed.

I'm reminded of the worst nightmare I ever had, which also involved smothering.

In the nightmare I dreamed I was a kid playing hide and seek in my grandmother's house. There was a closet full of old coats in the basement that no-one ever went in. That would be the perfect place to hide. I went into the closet, and I can remember the must smell of the place, with a hint of mothballs ...

It seemed like I was waiting a long time for the kids to find me. Then I saw a light somehow at the back of the closet. I pushed through the coats to get to the light. But then I suddenly remembered that  I wasn't a kid anymore, and my grandparents were long dead. The light ahead of me went out. In the dark, I could feel the coats pressing in on me more and more. They were wrapping around me like a shroud. The more I struggled, the tighter they got. They were all tattered and ragged, and they now smelled of rot. They were slowly choking off my air, wrapping rags around my face, covering my mouth and nose.

Fortunately, I then woke up.

[Josquius]

I just had a dream that gave me the best /worst idea for a horror movie.
Basically there was this dude in a house that was rented out to lots of people... Who hid in the mattresses with an oven glove on his hand and smothered them when they fell asleep.
If they skipped their bed time the man still wearing the mattress just got up and killed them anyway.

I think my subconscious is telling me to be afraid of bed.

I'm reminded of the worst nightmare I ever had, which also involved smothering.

In the nightmare I dreamed I was a kid playing hide and seek in my grandmother's house. There was a closet full of old coats in the basement that no-one ever went in. That would be the perfect place to hide. I went into the closet, and I can remember the must smell of the place, with a hint of mothballs ...

It seemed like I was waiting a long time for the kids to find me. Then I saw a light somehow at the back of the closet. I pushed through the coats to get to the light. But then I suddenly remembered that  I wasn't a kid anymore, and my grandparents were long dead. The light ahead of me went out. In the dark, I could feel the coats pressing in on me more and more. They were wrapping around me like a shroud. The more I struggled, the tighter they got. They were all tattered and ragged, and they now smelled of rot. They were slowly choking off my air, wrapping rags around my face, covering my mouth and nose.

Fortunately, I then woke up.

Some sort of message about Narnia being a trap?

[crazy canuck]

I just had a dream that gave me the best /worst idea for a horror movie.
Basically there was this dude in a house that was rented out to lots of people... Who hid in the mattresses with an oven glove on his hand and smothered them when they fell asleep.
If they skipped their bed time the man still wearing the mattress just got up and killed them anyway.

I think my subconscious is telling me to be afraid of bed.

I'm reminded of the worst nightmare I ever had, which also involved smothering.

In the nightmare I dreamed I was a kid playing hide and seek in my grandmother's house. There was a closet full of old coats in the basement that no-one ever went in. That would be the perfect place to hide. I went into the closet, and I can remember the must smell of the place, with a hint of mothballs ...

It seemed like I was waiting a long time for the kids to find me. Then I saw a light somehow at the back of the closet. I pushed through the coats to get to the light. But then I suddenly remembered that  I wasn't a kid anymore, and my grandparents were long dead. The light ahead of me went out. In the dark, I could feel the coats pressing in on me more and more. They were wrapping around me like a shroud. The more I struggled, the tighter they got. They were all tattered and ragged, and they now smelled of rot. They were slowly choking off my air, wrapping rags around my face, covering my mouth and nose.

Fortunately, I then woke up.

Some sort of message about Narnia being a trap?

Beat me to it. I was going to say that Malthus heard a different reading of Narnia growing up.

[HVC]

Scariest dream I had as when I was 4 or 5. Remember it to this day. I was a super hero in a team of superhero's and we were attacking a villain whose power was to freeze people in place. I woke up to a bought of sleep paralysis after being attacked in the dream. Scared the crap out of me.

[Jacob]

Man, I had the wildest Friday night. I went back and started reading the Canadian politics thread from the beginning....

[celedhring]

Scariest dream I had as when I was 4 or 5. Remember it to this day. I was a super hero in a team of superhero's and we were attacking a villain whose power was to freeze people in place. I woke up to a bought of sleep paralysis after being attacked in the dream. Scared the crap out of me.

I used to have a lot of sleep paralysis episodes when I was in my 20s - it was fucking terrifying indeed. They just went away.

[crazy canuck]

Man, I had the wildest Friday night. I went back and started reading the Canadian politics thread from the beginning....

It must be an interesting time capsule of our collective views.

[HVC]

Scariest dream I had as when I was 4 or 5. Remember it to this day. I was a super hero in a team of superhero's and we were attacking a villain whose power was to freeze people in place. I woke up to a bought of sleep paralysis after being attacked in the dream. Scared the crap out of me.

I used to have a lot of sleep paralysis episodes when I was in my 20s - it was fucking terrifying indeed. They just went away.

I used to have it off and on since I was a little kid. Haven't had one in at least 5 years. I also used to have lucid dreams frequently, but those stopped around the same time.