Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Spoke to two people on work calls today who've signed up for the refugee hosting scheme - I think it's well over 100,000 people volunteering now.

Charities are now - rightly - calling for this model to be expanded and made available for other refugees including Afghans, Syrians and Eritreans. Especially as it expands to include faith groups, community groups, universities, businesses etc. The other key is that we need to end the ban on asylum seekers working. Lots of groups who've been working in this area using it as a wedge, I think pretty cleverly.

The key is to use this as a transformative moment - and also to make sure it works in practice - but I'm fairly optimistic.

Edit: Incidentally I would love to know more about Eritrea - it's one of the biggest sources of refugees in the UK. There's an Eritrean church in my area and I know a couple of Eritreans who moved here as refugees. From what I understand it's an absolute totalitarian nightmare - all men are conscripted into the military etc - but I have no real idea what's going on and I've never seen much about it. So if anyone's seen any articles or books explaining the situation - please share.

[Barrister]

Edit: Incidentally I would love to know more about Eritrea - it's one of the biggest sources of refugees in the UK. There's an Eritrean church in my area and I know a couple of Eritreans who moved here as refugees. From what I understand it's an absolute totalitarian nightmare - all men are conscripted into the military etc - but I have no real idea what's going on and I've never seen much about it. So if anyone's seen any articles or books explaining the situation - please share.

Eritrea and Ethiopia both.  Fascinating part of the world, very ancient civilizations, and nwo pretty damn poor.

Yes my understanding is Eritrea is a 100% dictatorship without even the faintest trappings of democracy.  Had a long-running war with Ethiopia, but then made peace, and then joined Ethiopia in a civil war against Tigray (a region of Ethiopia).  It all sounds terrible.  But then again I think I just told you everything I know about the region.

[Grey Fox]

I wonder why they are firmly in Russia's corner at the UN.

[Admiral Yi]

Blows my mind this poll had 96 responses, not that long ago either.

[Josquius]

Spoke to two people on work calls today who've signed up for the refugee hosting scheme - I think it's well over 100,000 people volunteering now.

Charities are now - rightly - calling for this model to be expanded and made available for other refugees including Afghans, Syrians and Eritreans. Especially as it expands to include faith groups, community groups, universities, businesses etc. The other key is that we need to end the ban on asylum seekers working. Lots of groups who've been working in this area using it as a wedge, I think pretty cleverly.

The key is to use this as a transformative moment - and also to make sure it works in practice - but I'm fairly optimistic.

Edit: Incidentally I would love to know more about Eritrea - it's one of the biggest sources of refugees in the UK. There's an Eritrean church in my area and I know a couple of Eritreans who moved here as refugees. From what I understand it's an absolute totalitarian nightmare - all men are conscripted into the military etc - but I have no real idea what's going on and I've never seen much about it. So if anyone's seen any articles or books explaining the situation - please share.

It would be nice.
And it does serve as quite the gotcha for the inevitable moans of chain immigration and I'm not racist but about non European groups.

And yeah. Eritrea sucks. Strict conscription for indefinite periods which basically amounts to slavery. Fascinating how it developed out of the context of a war of independence where a nation permanently at war may have had merit but it just kept going.

[Sheilbh]

It would be nice.
And it does serve as quite the gotcha for the inevitable moans of chain immigration and I'm not racist but about non European groups.

I think race is definitely part of it but possibly more in salience/urgency than anything else.

The really striking thing is the polling for taking Syrian refugees and Afghan refugees was actually pretty similar to Ukrainian refugees - the same goes for Hong Kong which resulted in a separate route. Part of the reason this approach has been taken is because the charities and activists have pushed for it having learned from a similar, failed scheme with Syria. But the key difference is that Ukraine has been a bigger issue with more political force behind it - which I think is probably the part where race comes in rather than people viewing refugees in different ways.

And mentally that makes sense to me - it would be weird for someone who was willing to host a Ukrainian refugee was also quite racist. Because I think if you're willing to volunteer to host any refugee you're probably not a massive racist. But I can see that playing into the wider salience of this war v others/the pressure on the government to allow this (without a cap) v other conflicts. But as ever I think the best approach is not to scold but bank that win and try to expand it.

[Barrister]

It would be nice.
And it does serve as quite the gotcha for the inevitable moans of chain immigration and I'm not racist but about non European groups.

I think race is definitely part of it but possibly more in salience/urgency than anything else.

The really striking thing is the polling for taking Syrian refugees and Afghan refugees was actually pretty similar to Ukrainian refugees - the same goes for Hong Kong which resulted in a separate route. Part of the reason this approach has been taken is because the charities and activists have pushed for it having learned from a similar, failed scheme with Syria. But the key difference is that Ukraine has been a bigger issue with more political force behind it - which I think is probably the part where race comes in rather than people viewing refugees in different ways.

And mentally that makes sense to me - it would be weird for someone who was willing to host a Ukrainian refugee was also quite racist. Because I think if you're willing to volunteer to host any refugee you're probably not a massive racist. But I can see that playing into the wider salience of this war v others/the pressure on the government to allow this (without a cap) v other conflicts. But as ever I think the best approach is not to scold but bank that win and try to expand it.

I'm sorry, it's hard not to factor a level of racism / islamophobia over how Ukrainian vs Syrian (and nevermind Eritrean) refugees are being treated.

[Sheilbh]

I'm sorry, it's hard not to factor a level of racism / islamophobia over how Ukrainian vs Syrian (and nevermind Eritrean) refugees are being treated.

I agree - my point is the polling on willingness to host refugees or on how many the UK should take/support for the UK taking refugees is the same for Ukrainians as it was for Syrians, Afghans, Hong Kong (Eritrea's never been a prominent news story). Sunder Katwala's written about this - and it is in a wider context of support for refugees and immigration in general increasing over the last 6 years, while opposition has declined and immigration has fallen quite significantly off the list of issues people say is a major concern.

The difference is - so this is where I think race probably comes into it is more around how much the public care - so is it an issue with salience, that dominates the news every night and forces policy changes or not. Ukraine is, Hong Kong was - Syria and Afghanistan didn't.

I think the politicians - and especially the government - are behind the public on this.

[crazy canuck]

Sheilbh,

I am not sure why you think it is not likely that a racist would welcome white refugees but not dark skinned refugees. 

Historically racists have been willing to bring in European (read white) immigrants but not from other countries.

[Valmy]

Blows my mind this poll had 96 responses, not that long ago either.

2016 was a very active time for Languish for obvious reasons.

[Sheilbh]

Sheilbh,

I am not sure why you think it is not likely that a racist would welcome white refugees but not dark skinned refugees. 

Historically racists have been willing to bring in European (read white) immigrants but not from other countries.

I get that on a general social level but in this case it's people who are volunteering to host refugees in their home. It seems unlikely to me that if you're the sort of person who wants to host a refugee in your home that you'll also be racist about that - obviously there will be a few who are. But in general my guess is that people who want to host refugees are likely to be relatively humane, open-minded, wanting to do good regardless. I think it'd be relatively unusual for someone to want to participate in a scheme like that but only for some refugees (in terms of selectiveness I imagine there'd be more around gender to be honest).

There's been similar schemes for Syrian refugees with lots of issues, this scheme will hopefully avoid them because there's been lots of work by activists and charities in the sector to develop it (basically the less you have to deal with the Home Office the better this will go).

[Valmy]

Sheilbh,

I am not sure why you think it is not likely that a racist would welcome white refugees but not dark skinned refugees. 

Historically racists have been willing to bring in European (read white) immigrants but not from other countries.

Heh the Brits hated the Eastern Euros moving in didn't they? And they are notoriously rough on even white American immigrants to the UK and we are supposed to have a special relationship and shit. North American racists are more focused on just skin color than old world racists I think.

[Admiral Yi]

And they are notoriously rough on even white American immigrants to the UK and we are supposed to have a special relationship and shit.

Are they?  I've never heard this.

[Valmy]

And they are notoriously rough on even white American immigrants to the UK and we are supposed to have a special relationship and shit.

Are they?  I've never heard this.

Yeah. Though it could be what DGuller termed "collateral damage" though. Sometimes your tough on immigrants policies end up also getting white people deported. Unless you marry somebody you are going to really have a rough time immigrating there...at least according to people who have tried to do it. I obviously have no first hand experience.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah. Though it could be what DGuller termed "collateral damage" though. Sometimes your tough on immigrants policies end up also getting white people deported. Unless you marry somebody you are going to really have a rough time immigrating there...at least according to people who have tried to do it. I obviously have no first hand experience.

Ah, I thought you meant on a personal level.