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Crusader Kings III

Started by Syt, October 19, 2019, 04:02:55 AM

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Oexmelin

The problem is not so much that as the increasing disparity between world-class institutions, national institutions and small regional museums. As wealth concentrates in the cities, the regional museums, which once enjoyed the patronage of rich locals, are now cut off from philanthropy. Their sources of income will now come from National granting institutions, who distribute funds according to bureaucratic criteria and dossiers that small museums often don't have the capacity to produce. There is thus an unfortunate rise of « heritage consultants » whose job it is to produce these dossiers.

So, the Smithsonian museums have a lot of money, manpower, and can afford to pay a living wage to full time employees. Fort Ticonderoga has a hard time. Huguenot Street of New Pfalz struggles.


Que le grand cric me croque !

Sophie Scholl

Eh, when Cost of Living is factored in, the NYC, DC, Boston, and Philly jobs (my primary area of interest in American History being colonial history) are not very livable.  35k in those areas, which is high end pay for most low to mid level positions I've seen is basically unlivable.  I was looking at a position at  the National Museum of the American Indian at a non-entry level position and it paid... 33k or so?  I'd have to commute hours every day and live in a closet for that.  Fuck that noise.  Museum work and National Park Service work (former seasonal here) seem to have been remade into the domain of rich kids who can treat it as a low pay internship while awaiting the top jobs.  It sucks.  A lot.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

dps

Quote from: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 04:59:51 PM
Yes, history is not a vocational training, and I try to disabuse the notion in my students that they will become historians with a BA. Not that they need much disabusing anymore. You cannot show up with history credentials into a dedicated type of job, with very few exceptions. Museums are non-profit, and for the majority of them, operate on a shoestring budget - although many remain places where you can climb the ladder and carve out a niche for yourself into comfortable living.

However, historical training is a pathway to many less conventional jobs: so far, my former students have been hired by banks, investment firms, consulting firms, charitable foundations, marketing firms, security consultants, government agencies, civil service, pharmaceuticals, software, etc. Many of course go on to law school.

Numbers suggest history grad start at lower wages at the beginning not their careers, but quickly catch up with other types of majors. Perhaps counterintuitively, English and History outperform a more vocational major such as psychology.

Don't a lot of History majors go on to law school?

Oexmelin

Quote from: dps on October 26, 2019, 12:03:00 AM
Don't a lot of History majors go on to law school?

Yes, as I indicated in the message you quoted.
Que le grand cric me croque !

dps

Quote from: Oexmelin on October 26, 2019, 12:59:45 AM
Quote from: dps on October 26, 2019, 12:03:00 AM
Don't a lot of History majors go on to law school?

Yes, as I indicated in the message you quoted.

I knew I'd read it somewhere.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 11:00:53 PM
The problem is not so much that as the increasing disparity between world-class institutions, national institutions and small regional museums. As wealth concentrates in the cities, the regional museums, which once enjoyed the patronage of rich locals, are now cut off from philanthropy. Their sources of income will now come from National granting institutions, who distribute funds according to bureaucratic criteria and dossiers that small museums often don't have the capacity to produce. There is thus an unfortunate rise of « heritage consultants » whose job it is to produce these dossiers.

So, the Smithsonian museums have a lot of money, manpower, and can afford to pay a living wage to full time employees. Fort Ticonderoga has a hard time. Huguenot Street of New Pfalz struggles.
This is also a big issue in the UK. We have universal free admission to the national museums (who are good at fundraising, mainly in London and receive grants).

But lots of local/regional museums need to charge people and rely on volunteers

Given the number of international tourists in the national museums and the focus on London, I'm not sure it's the best system.
Let's bomb Russia!

Josephus

Quote from: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 01:37:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on October 25, 2019, 01:09:08 PM
I think they should consider the history grad thing. I mean, they won't have to pay him (yes him) much...I mean where else can a history grad find work?

:rolleyes: History grads find jobs in many places, provided people are not too dumb to understand their worth.

But thank you for illustrating my point about how that sort of labor is not valued (and clearly not understood) even by people who purport to like history.

As for the gender implication, re- :rolleyes:

'twas a joke. :D
Civis Romanus Sum<br /><br />"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Oexmelin

Que le grand cric me croque !

mongers

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 26, 2019, 08:15:49 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 11:00:53 PM
The problem is not so much that as the increasing disparity between world-class institutions, national institutions and small regional museums. As wealth concentrates in the cities, the regional museums, which once enjoyed the patronage of rich locals, are now cut off from philanthropy. Their sources of income will now come from National granting institutions, who distribute funds according to bureaucratic criteria and dossiers that small museums often don't have the capacity to produce. There is thus an unfortunate rise of « heritage consultants » whose job it is to produce these dossiers.

So, the Smithsonian museums have a lot of money, manpower, and can afford to pay a living wage to full time employees. Fort Ticonderoga has a hard time. Huguenot Street of New Pfalz struggles.
This is also a big issue in the UK. We have universal free admission to the national museums (who are good at fundraising, mainly in London and receive grants).

But lots of local/regional museums need to charge people and rely on volunteers

Given the number of international tourists in the national museums and the focus on London, I'm not sure it's the best system.

Yes, it's an unbalanced 'system' with the regional museums as the poor country cousins.  <_<

I'd favour fixed, modest admission fees for national museums with some of the proceeds going into a scheme to support local/regions ones.

Also might help deter the coach loads of tourist youths that get dumped at London museums, almost like a baby sitting mechanism?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Josquius

I've always found it curious that British museums are free to everyone. Elsewhere in the world you see museums that are free or reduced cost to people from that country (or the EU as a whole) but outsiders must pay.

But yeah. Museums are in a weird place. My ex was the curator of a museum and earned pretty much minimum wage working only 3 days a week. Everything was a desperate struggle and endless tale of failure. Its amazing how they had so many old paintings and other pieces kept in really quite horrific conditions as they just couldn't afford somewhere good.
The sad thing is there was not much support from the local community either as they figured it's a castle, they're obviously rich.

(and this is for a new thread surely?
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mongers

Quote from: Tyr on October 26, 2019, 05:22:05 PM
I've always found it curious that British museums are free to everyone. Elsewhere in the world you see museums that are free or reduced cost to people from that country (or the EU as a whole) but outsiders must pay.

But yeah. Museums are in a weird place. My ex was the curator of a museum and earned pretty much minimum wage working only 3 days a week. Everything was a desperate struggle and endless tale of failure. Its amazing how they had so many old paintings and other pieces kept in really quite horrific conditions as they just couldn't afford somewhere good.
The sad thing is there was not much support from the local community either as they figured it's a castle, they're obviously rich.

(and this is for a new thread surely?


Yes a good idea, I wonder if a mod to split the discussion content off into a new thread?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tyr on October 26, 2019, 05:22:05 PM
But yeah. Museums are in a weird place. My ex was the curator of a museum and earned pretty much minimum wage working only 3 days a week. Everything was a desperate struggle and endless tale of failure. Its amazing how they had so many old paintings and other pieces kept in really quite horrific conditions as they just couldn't afford somewhere good.
Yeah. Similar with galleries, I know someone who has History of Art PhD and has had good experience curating in big galleries in the US (which were funded). But it's just very difficult for them to find that kind of job except as temporary postings because you need that combo of a gallery, with enough money, looking for a curator in their area of expertise.

It seems like a nightmare :(
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 04:59:51 PM
Numbers suggest history grad start at lower wages at the beginning not their careers, but quickly catch up with other types of majors. Perhaps counterintuitively, English and History outperform a more vocational major such as psychology.

Speaking for my own fairly well compensated profession, writing ability is usually as a premium, at least on the disputes side.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Benedict Arnold on October 25, 2019, 11:22:26 PM
  I was looking at a position at  the National Museum of the American Indian at a non-entry level position and it paid... 33k or so?  I'd have to commute hours every day and live in a closet for that. 

Yes but the bankruptcy court is in the same building so when you are finally completely broke it's not far to go.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

It is best to have a robust trust fund set up to support your history career.

Though I think if I was going to history grad school now I would be thinking about doing a podcast or something. That wasn't something that occurred to me back in 2002-2003.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."