Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams. Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.
Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?
They had regular British accents. Just the accents changed much more slowly than they did back in Avalon.
I like Abigail Adams; seems like a good role model. :)
I plan to read the exchange of letters between her, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson.
You mean Albion?
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:42:19 PM
You mean Albion?
I guess. I use them more or less interchangeably. Even though one is fictional. :P
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams. Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.
Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?
I have always imagined George III to be the first of his line to have an English accent, rather than a German one ...
Yeah, but surely it would be some kind of posh accent? George had something of an Irish accent almost. It was weird.
Early recordings I've heard of American accents aren't so different than those today. I remember Lettow posting a recording of southern Civil War veterans and they wouldn't sound out of place today. I doubt the bulk of divergence took place from 1776 to ~1850--a significant amount probably started before then. Which would make sense in light of the changes that took place in England 1620-1776.
I've read that until the civil war, some isolated southerners were speaking elizabethan english, but that the war led them to be pulled out of the mountains.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 10, 2012, 03:08:04 PM
I've read that until the civil war, some isolated southerners were speaking elizabethan english, but that the war led them to be pulled out of the mountains.
Mountains foster linguistic diversity, they don't freeze things. It's likely that they came over speaking a northern English or Scots dialect that maintained "thou", which several do even today. This probably would have sounded Elizabethan to Civil War officers familiar with the King James Bible and Shakespear, but I'd bet my life that their dialect had way more French, West African, Indian and Spanish influence than anything the Bard of Avon would recognize as his own dialect.
Hmm. It would be very interesting to see what English dialects contributed the most to American English.
Gordon S. Wood wrote about it.
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams. Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.
Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?
A Yorkshire plumber is probably closer to Milton that most modern English accents, especially RP ('BBC English') which is a creation of the industrial age.
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 10, 2012, 03:08:04 PM
I've read that until the civil war, some isolated southerners were speaking elizabethan english, but that the war led them to be pulled out of the mountains.
Mountains foster linguistic diversity, they don't freeze things. It's likely that they came over speaking a northern English or Scots dialect that maintained "thou", which several do even today. This probably would have sounded Elizabethan to Civil War officers familiar with the King James Bible and Shakespear, but I'd bet my life that their dialect had way more French, West African, Indian and Spanish influence than anything the Bard of Avon would recognize as his own dialect.
French, West African, Indian and Spanish influences among people living in the southern Appalachians? (I assume that he was primarily referring to people in that area, given the bit about "pulled out of the mountains".)
Perhaps Thomas Jefferson hated Alexander Hamilton because the latter had a West Indian accent?
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 03:59:37 PM
Mountains foster linguistic diversity, they don't freeze things.
They foster diversity by freezing things. It's not just mountains anyway. It's also distance and frequency of contact with others.
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits? :hmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
:contract:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 10, 2012, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 03:59:37 PM
Mountains foster linguistic diversity, they don't freeze things.
They foster diversity by freezing things. It's not just mountains anyway. It's also distance and frequency of contact with others.
No language is frozen. Ever.
Quote from: Malthus on July 10, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits? :hmm:
The problem with this is that I'm not sure that "talk.. ...like 18th century Brits" has much meaning. Even today, with a smaller population and far smaller land area than the US, the UK has more diverse dialects than America. And British English was even more chaotic in the 18th century than now.
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams. Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.
Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?
zee djörman akzent i suspect.... (no, that was his father and grandfather)
speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.
English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.
Quote from: Malthus on July 10, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits? :hmm:
We didn't get all uppity and start talking all posh like.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 10, 2012, 02:39:38 PM
They had regular British accents. Just the accents changed much more slowly than they did back in Avalon.
I don't think there is a "regular" British accent. I seem to recall that the old Yankee accent was dying by the mid 19th century. I think Daniel Day Lewis's character in Gangs of New York was trying to imitate it.
Quote from: Viking on July 10, 2012, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams. Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.
Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?
zee djörman akzent i suspect.... (no, that was his father and grandfather)
speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.
English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.
What in the Hell are you talking about?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 06:35:34 PM
What in the Hell are you talking about?
He's talking about the institutionalization of affectation. I've read similar things about the Spanish lisp, affected at first by the Spanish court to make a lisping monarch feel more comfortable.
I hate the often repeated line that American is closer to old English than British is. That is just wrong.
American is probally closer to the English of a few hundred years ago than RP (a creation of modern times) but no way is it closer than other British dialects. It is recognised for instance that Bede makes more sense read with a modern northern accent than a standard English one.
The dialects of Britain largely have their basis way back in the dark ages.
American (and Australian and others)...is some weird evolution of them all splodged together.
My understanding is that the 'original' American default accent was fairly close to the modern coastal southern accents, but was then altered greatly in places like the northeast and midwest by subsequent immigration. I think that the colonial American accent drew heavily on the west country accents, and it had to have been influenced by the Scots-Irish in some areas, as well as the Poor Palatines and New Netherland Dutch in others. I can tell you that in my own personal case, most of my colonial American ancestors who came from Britain were from Wiltshire, Yorkshire, or Ulster (the Scots-Irish).
This is a topic I'm very interested in and I know we've discussed it to some degree before. I've mentioned before that people in rural Pennsylvania sound a lot like southerners (e.g. my dad's family), and I've encountered people in rural Vermont who almost sound southern, and would be in areas not largely affected by subsequent immigration as well.
Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)
When we first moved to NC, I worked in Kinston (about 30 miles east of Goldsboro). Some (but only a small minority) of the people in that area had an accent that I had a good deal of trouble understanding. I'm not sure what the heck that accent was, but the people I noticed speaking it were older black natives of the area.
Quote from: dps on July 10, 2012, 07:40:15 PM
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)
When we first moved to NC, I worked in Kinston (about 30 miles east of Goldsboro). Some (but only a small minority) of the people in that area had an accent that I had a good deal of trouble understanding. I'm not sure what the heck that accent was, but the people I noticed speaking it were older black natives of the area.
Gullah?
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
This is a topic I'm very interested in and I know we've discussed it to some degree before. I've mentioned before that people in rural Pennsylvania sound a lot like southerners (e.g. my dad's family),
Are you talking about the Mid-Atlantic accent (Philly/SE PA, south Jersey, Baltimore)? I always thought it sounded like a fusion of southern and New York accents. In western PA it's downright Appalachian IMO.
How come the media hasn't removed these small, odd southern accents the way it has toned down local accents in the UK?
Quote from: derspiess on July 10, 2012, 08:07:10 PM
Are you talking about the Mid-Atlantic accent (Philly/SE PA, south Jersey, Baltimore)? I always thought it sounded like a fusion of southern and New York accents. In western PA it's downright Appalachian IMO.
No, central PA, where it sounds like what I think you're probably referring to as western PA (by which you mean western PA south of Pittsburgh, right?)
Quote from: Viking on July 10, 2012, 06:25:28 PM
speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.
English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.
Wow, that sounds really messed up for Danish speaking! :huh:
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
How come the media hasn't removed these small, odd southern accents the way it has toned down local accents in the UK?
"The media" in this country isn't as monolithic as that in the UK. You have, what, 8 broadcast TV channels in the UK? We have hundreds of them in the US. Sure, most of them fill a lot of their schedules with network or nationally syndicated shows, but they have a lot of locally producted content as well. Heck, I grew up in a little town of about 5000 people in the middle of nowhere, and we had our own local TV channel (and had had it since 1948, which meant that from 1948-1955, our little dinky town had as many TV channels as the whole UK). I don't know how many radio broadcast stations you have in the UK, but I wouldn't be surprised if WV alone had more than the entire UK. And for a long time, radio stations in the US featured more local content than did TV stations (I'm not sure whether or not that is still true).
Quote from: dps on July 10, 2012, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
How come the media hasn't removed these small, odd southern accents the way it has toned down local accents in the UK?
"The media" in this country isn't as monolithic as that in the UK. You have, what, 8 broadcast TV channels in the UK? We have hundreds of them in the US. Sure, most of them fill a lot of their schedules with network or nationally syndicated shows, but they have a lot of locally producted content as well. Heck, I grew up in a little town of about 5000 people in the middle of nowhere, and we had our own local TV channel (and had had it since 1948, which meant that from 1948-1955, our little dinky town had as many TV channels as the whole UK). I don't know how many radio broadcast stations you have in the UK, but I wouldn't be surprised if WV alone had more than the entire UK. And for a long time, radio stations in the US featured more local content than did TV stations (I'm not sure whether or not that is still true).
It's probably nearer 60-70 TV channels.
And around 30 radio stations, excluding local and regional stations.
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 08:58:42 PM
No, central PA, where it sounds like what I think you're probably referring to as western PA (by which you mean western PA south of Pittsburgh, right?)
Pretty much, yeah.
Quote from: KRonn on July 10, 2012, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: Viking on July 10, 2012, 06:25:28 PM
speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.
English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.
Wow, that sounds really messed up for Danish speaking! :huh:
How Norwegians view the Danish Language, which is virtually identical in written form; but unintelligible when spoken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2012, 07:04:18 PM
I hate the often repeated line that American is closer to old English than British is. That is just wrong.
American is probally closer to the English of a few hundred years ago than RP (a creation of modern times) but no way is it closer than other British dialects. It is recognised for instance that Bede makes more sense read with a modern northern accent than a standard English one.
The dialects of Britain largely have their basis way back in the dark ages.
American (and Australian and others)...is some weird evolution of them all splodged together.
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2012, 07:04:18 PM
I hate the often repeated line that American is closer to old English than British is. That is just wrong.
American is probally closer to the English of a few hundred years ago than RP (a creation of modern times) but no way is it closer than other British dialects. It is recognised for instance that Bede makes more sense read with a modern northern accent than a standard English one.
The dialects of Britain largely have their basis way back in the dark ages.
American (and Australian and others)...is some weird evolution of them all splodged together.
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
I thought we (and some American dialects more than others) just kept a lot of words that fell into disuse in Britain.
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 10, 2012, 08:07:10 PM
Are you talking about the Mid-Atlantic accent (Philly/SE PA, south Jersey, Baltimore)? I always thought it sounded like a fusion of southern and New York accents. In western PA it's downright Appalachian IMO.
No, central PA, where it sounds like what I think you're probably referring to as western PA (by which you mean western PA south of Pittsburgh, right?)
I spent occasional stays for three years in Gettysburg, and the locals did indeed sound different.
Quote from: Phillip V on July 11, 2012, 12:48:00 AM
I spent occasional stays for three years in Gettysburg, and the locals did indeed sound different.
They would always say 'four score' instead of eighty for example.
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2012, 12:51:33 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on July 11, 2012, 12:48:00 AM
I spent occasional stays for three years in Gettysburg, and the locals did indeed sound different.
They would always say 'four score' instead of eighty for example.
The fucking danes say "fjers" rather than the logical "åtti". But the annoying thing about "four score and ten" is that the fucking danes use "halv fems" for that.
Don't get me started on danish number ffs.
Wouldn't there be some influence from immigrants from non-English-speaking countries?
Quote from: Malthus on July 10, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits? :hmm:
That's not so weird. Modern Silesians talk more like 14th century Poles, than Poles.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
Because they used to vary even wider still?
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2012, 03:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
Because they used to vary even wider still?
I'm failing to see your point here.
I've read somewhere that the Westcountry accent / dialect is closest to the Old English one, which given Wessex domination of England in the 10-11th centuries is probably not that surpriseing.
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2012, 02:40:36 AM
Wouldn't there be some influence from immigrants from non-English-speaking countries?
Absolutely, but it's hard to track exactly what the influences are on American English. They
seem to have had more influence on vocabulary than on spelling and pronounciation, and very little on grammer.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2012, 03:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
Because they used to vary even wider still?
I'm failing to see your point here.
That Britain has varied dialects doesn't mean British English can't be closer to English as it used to be than American is- the same broad dialects have a basis in history.
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2012, 06:14:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2012, 03:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
Since British Dialects vary widely how can you say this? Anyway, what is typically said is that American English is closer to Elizabethan English in tone and sound then modern London English.
Because they used to vary even wider still?
I'm failing to see your point here.
That Britain has varied dialects doesn't mean British English can't be closer to English as it used to be than American is- the same broad dialects have a basis in history.
Huh? All dialects have a basis in history.
Quote from: dps on July 12, 2012, 09:04:07 AM
Huh? All dialects have a basis in history.
I mean a direct line.
1000 years ago the dialect of one area had similar, but bigger, differences to that of another area,
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2012, 09:51:23 AM
Quote from: dps on July 12, 2012, 09:04:07 AM
Huh? All dialects have a basis in history.
I mean a direct line.
1000 years ago the dialect of one area had similar, but bigger, differences to that of another area,
And so does American English! They didn't go through a phase of speaking Swahili. Spellus might be able to remember this, but I seem to recall that languages change more in their place of origin then where they are imported.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
And so does American English! They didn't go through a phase of speaking Swahili. Spellus might be able to remember this, but I seem to recall that languages change more in their place of origin then where they are imported.
American English however has only exised within modern times. British English can be traced back to the dark ages.
:frusty: Are you really this dense? It didn't just spring into being on fine day. They can both trace their lineage to the dark ages. One line is not longer then the other.
It didn't just spring into being one day, it took a while, but as a distinct American dialect it is a lot more modern than distinct dialects of various parts of the UK.
Quote from: Tyr on July 13, 2012, 04:24:33 AM
It didn't just spring into being one day, it took a while, but as a distinct American dialect it is a lot less modern than distinct dialects of various parts of the UK.
Wait what? Weren't you arguing the opposite yesterday? Either way, any argument that one lineage is older then the other is silly. It's like a pair of brothers arguing who has the longest family tree.
Just give it up Raz. Its no use.
er..............American English is British English if you go back far enough :hmm:
My understanding is that British English has changed more quickly than American English in the past couple of centuries. But that understanding is based on articles in the popular press, I cannot claim to have examined even the secondary sources.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 14, 2012, 09:35:02 PM
er..............American English is British English if you go back far enough :hmm:
My understanding is that British English has changed more quickly than American English in the past couple of centuries. But that understanding is based on articles in the popular press, I cannot claim to have examined even the secondary sources.
That is also my understanding from the popular press--which I find interesting since I would expect the US to be subject to more change since we have had so much immigration. Perhaps the larger size of the country made it more resistant to changes?
Obviously the languages diverged by the time of the earliest recordings, but does anyone know when the earliest written records indicate that the languages were different. I know there are times when I have trouble understanding English accents, so surely people would have noted the odd speech of their visitors.
Look. People live in a small concentrated area with lots of variation in dialect. Those people evolve dialect within themselves and between dialects often. Language evolves due to frequent contact and mixing.
Other people go to America and hike over the mountains. never see another same-language speaker with a different dialect other than once a couple generations.
Whose dialect changes faster?
UK English is the more modern one and US is more like it used to be. Both share the same roots and are the same "age". Where's the damn quibble? Why go against all the major linguists in academia? It seems obvious.
I refuse to start pronouncing it Zed dammit!
American English is a creation of the modern world. A result of having people from all over Britain and Europe all mixed together in a way that didn't happen back home.
Most British Englishes meanwhile have a clear single lines of origin in the same areas that they still exist. They didn't just come into being in the modern world.
It seems pretty obvious to me.
Quote from: katmai on July 15, 2012, 12:27:03 AM
I refuse to start pronouncing it Zed dammit!
preach it zee brother!
Quote from: katmai on July 15, 2012, 12:27:03 AM
I refuse to start pronouncing it Zed dammit!
And that... is why you fail.
Last i looked not stuck part of some podunk Commonwealth.
:console:
Quote from: katmai on July 15, 2012, 02:11:20 AM
Last i looked not stuck part of some podunk Commonwealth.
:console:
hey, friendly fire there! :( :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 14, 2012, 08:52:53 AM
Just give it up Raz. Its no use.
I'm afraid you are right.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 14, 2012, 03:14:24 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 13, 2012, 04:24:33 AM
It didn't just spring into being one day, it took a while, but as a distinct American dialect it is a lot less modern than distinct dialects of various parts of the UK.
Wait what? Weren't you arguing the opposite yesterday? Either way, any argument that one lineage is older then the other is silly. It's like a pair of brothers arguing who has the longest family tree.
I think Tyr's right. American English, like British English is a relatively modern thing.
There's no such thing as 'Elizabethan English' because of the differences between a London dialect and, say, a Devon dialect or a North of England dialects. Many of those individual dialects have survived in some way in England.
American English, like British English is a product of the modern age. American English may be closer to the British English as it begins to emerge in the 18th century but it's not closer to 'old English' because, in reality, there was no such thing just a few hundred varieties of the language.
It's a bit like Florentine and Italian. American and British ('RP') English are both basically dialects of the sort of English that won and became dominant - of the two the American may be closer to their original sound. But they're amalgamations and derivatives of dialects that existed in England and in some forms still exist. I imagine London dialect dominates over England and was influential in American English too. It's also most prone to change.
Sigh. I think when I said Elizabethan, I also said London at the same time.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 15, 2012, 09:42:12 PM
Sigh. I think when I said Elizabethan, I also said London at the same time.
Well that's not quite what you said, you compared Elizabethan English with modern London. Whereas, if anything, 'Elizabethan English' was a London dialect. I agree that British English and American English are brothers in the family tree. In my view from roughly the same period and that American English has changed less. But there's lots of English dialects that haven't changed a great deal (distinct from 'British English') and that have made it.
Ed was right.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 16, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 16, 2012, 10:27:18 AM
Ed was right.
ALWAYS.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.czeskifilm.tv%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2Falways.jpg&hash=b68fe4feb916738426fa3355a341ef5c13e57808)
??
That depends.