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Early American Accents

Started by Queequeg, July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM

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jimmy olsen

American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.
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Malthus

Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.

Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits?  :hmm:
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Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.

:contract:
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Queequeg

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 10, 2012, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 03:59:37 PM
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dps

Quote from: Malthus on July 10, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.

Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits?  :hmm:

The problem with this is that I'm not sure that "talk.. ...like 18th century Brits" has much meaning.  Even today, with a smaller population and far smaller land area than the US, the UK has more diverse dialects than America.  And British English was even more chaotic in the 18th century than now.

Viking

Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams.  Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.

Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?

zee djörman akzent i suspect.... (no, that was his father and grandfather)

speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.

English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.
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garbon

Quote from: Malthus on July 10, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 10, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
American accents were similar to the British accents of the time, however American accents have changed significantly less then the British since then.

Americans talk more like 18th century Brits, than Brits?  :hmm:

We didn't get all uppity and start talking all posh like.
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Razgovory

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 10, 2012, 02:39:38 PM
They had regular British accents. Just the accents changed much more slowly than they did back in Avalon.


I don't think there is a "regular" British accent.  I seem to recall that the old Yankee accent was dying by the mid 19th century.  I think Daniel Day Lewis's character in Gangs of New York was trying to imitate it.
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Razgovory

Quote from: Viking on July 10, 2012, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on July 10, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Do we have any idea when the various American dialects and accents developed? Watching John Adams.  Almost the entire cast has some kind of British accent, but that's likely because of casting and that Americans associate British accents so strongly with Education that a Yorkshire plumber sounds like Milton to American ears.

Also, what kind of accent does King George have in this?

zee djörman akzent i suspect.... (no, that was his father and grandfather)

speculation into spoken english has elder forms of english sounding more like modern irish english. But, the best example of how fucking impossible it is to think about this is the story of the danish slur. The reason danes speak as if they were mentally retarded with a potatoe in their mouth in their own language (but manage to do so clearly in other languages) is that centuries ago a fad for speaking with a slur gained favor in france when the king spoke with a slur. This reached fashionable circles in Kopenhagen and became all the rage resulting in the modern unintellegability of spoken danish.

English has hints of this with slurred speech being associated with upper class twits; the "bwian" joke from "The life of brian" is a perfect example of this.

What in the Hell are you talking about?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on July 10, 2012, 06:35:34 PM
What in the Hell are you talking about?

He's talking about the institutionalization of affectation.  I've read similar things about the Spanish lisp, affected at first by the Spanish court to make a lisping monarch feel more comfortable.

Josquius

I hate the often repeated line that American is closer to old English than British is. That is just wrong.
American is probally closer to the English of a few hundred years ago than RP (a creation of modern times) but no way is it closer than other British dialects. It is recognised for instance that Bede makes more sense read with a modern northern accent than a standard English one.
The dialects of Britain largely have their basis way back in the dark ages.
American (and Australian and others)...is some weird evolution of them all splodged together.
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Caliga

My understanding is that the 'original' American default accent was fairly close to the modern coastal southern accents, but was then altered greatly in places like the northeast and midwest by subsequent immigration.  I think that the colonial American accent drew heavily on the west country accents, and it had to have been influenced by the Scots-Irish in some areas, as well as the Poor Palatines and New Netherland Dutch in others.  I can tell you that in my own personal case, most of my colonial American ancestors who came from Britain were from Wiltshire, Yorkshire, or Ulster (the Scots-Irish).

This is a topic I'm very interested in and I know we've discussed it to some degree before.  I've mentioned before that people in rural Pennsylvania sound a lot like southerners (e.g. my dad's family), and I've encountered people in rural Vermont who almost sound southern, and would be in areas not largely affected by subsequent immigration as well.

Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)
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dps

Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM

Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)

When we first moved to NC, I worked in Kinston (about 30 miles east of Goldsboro).  Some (but only a small minority) of the people in that area had an accent that I had a good deal of trouble understanding.  I'm not sure what the heck that accent was, but the people I noticed speaking it were older black natives of the area.

derspiess

Quote from: dps on July 10, 2012, 07:40:15 PM
Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM

Note that there are a few places in the coastal south that maintain very unusual, archaic accents (Harker's Island, North Carolina, Tangier Island, Virginia, etc.)

When we first moved to NC, I worked in Kinston (about 30 miles east of Goldsboro).  Some (but only a small minority) of the people in that area had an accent that I had a good deal of trouble understanding.  I'm not sure what the heck that accent was, but the people I noticed speaking it were older black natives of the area.

Gullah?
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derspiess

Quote from: Caliga on July 10, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
This is a topic I'm very interested in and I know we've discussed it to some degree before.  I've mentioned before that people in rural Pennsylvania sound a lot like southerners (e.g. my dad's family),

Are you talking about the Mid-Atlantic accent (Philly/SE PA, south Jersey, Baltimore)?  I always thought it sounded like a fusion of southern and New York accents.  In western PA it's downright Appalachian IMO.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall