German history magazine "Damals" had as its main feature recently "The SS". It also had an article about the SS during the war which kinda surprised me, but I'm not a nerd-scholar of the era like some here. :P
Basically, it said that the 5 SS divisions that invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 were badly equipped, that only in 1943 the major expansion/re-equipment of the Waffen-SS took place, and that while the soldiers in those units were highly ideologically motivated, their mythos was created mostly by propaganda (and enhanced by their cruelty in occupied territories), citing that their casualty ratios weren't higher than those of Wehrmacht units.
So - are those white on black counters in some games overpowered? Or what's what?
Casualty ratios?
They were a pretty mixed bag overall. Some were crap, others were excellent.
I am not sure looking at their casualty ratio's is really a good measure of their quality though.
I do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.
The SS armored units did get preferential treatment when it came to equipment however.
When it comes to whether you define a unit as "elite" a good chunk of that definition boils down to motivation - so being highly ideologically motivated goes at least a ways down the path towards being "elite". Of course, all the motivation in the world isn't going to help without training, but while I think there were cases where SS units showed a decided lack of training (some of the counter-attacks by the SS units in Normandy, for example) most of that is simply a matter of there being cases by that point in the war that the German training system simply was not capable of executing at the level they were accustomed to - one can certainly find examples of regular Wehrmacht units having poor training as well.
Depended on the unit, but they tended to be fanatical and well equipped.
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:17:20 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
You people?????
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:19:20 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:17:20 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
You people?????
Grognards.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 16, 2012, 04:22:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:19:20 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:17:20 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
You people?????
Grognards.
Yup
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:30:40 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 16, 2012, 04:22:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:19:20 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:17:20 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: syk on February 16, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" :lol:
quite. 6 out of 7, not bad :blurgh:
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
You people?????
Grognards.
Yup
Ahh ;)
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 16, 2012, 04:22:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 04:19:20 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus
Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. :)
You people?????
Grognards.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FHwyjld5Kv1F0Nyni0jPlAhzejv8Aueu%2AyP5PJsvTVA%2Af9BeaODHlM5L76gXRfiG0EYbJPitaCZpaFbBV%2AL6LPA__%2F5241015.jpg&hash=f072f439231905a70b1da17ba69a7a8fd3dc0c9f)
QuoteI do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.
This is very true of the early SS Motorized Divisions '39-'41ish. The Waffen SS didnt come into their own until early (Jan) '43. From that time on, they (the seven I listed) were usually the armor fist at the tip of the spear for just about every major offensive, counter offensive, or counter attack.
So, overrated....depends on which division(s), when and at what time.
Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.
Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.
Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.
I dunno, we killed them just as well as any other Kraut. HOO RAH
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2012, 02:28:09 AM
Depended on the unit, but they tended yo be fanatical and well equipped.
So was the Iraqi Republican Guard.
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2012, 06:41:29 AM
Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.
Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.
Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.
Much as I hate to agree with Viking, he is right, here. The SS was no better motivated than the German Army, even in its best units, but it was better-equipped and kept up to strength, so as to create the impression that it was the political element that made it so powerful. After all, its ultimate purpose was to ensure that the Nazi party was safe against the German Army. Its combat effectiveness against non-German enemies was a bonus (and, as noted, not really added until 1943).
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
And some were wurst.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2012, 07:31:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
And some were wurst.
Thank you, I just projectile defecated.
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2012, 07:31:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
And some were wurst.
Brat??
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2012, 07:31:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 02:54:00 AM
For the divisions
Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.
And some were wurst.
But they were the best of the wurst.
Got a semi-related question for Before.
One thing that always bugged me when I played SPI's Wacht am Rhein was the OOB of Panzer Lehr. 3 panzergrenedier regiments and one lousy StugIII battallion. WTF? No Panthers? No PzIVs?
Is that accurate for Lehr during the Bulge?
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2012, 07:29:37 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2012, 06:41:29 AM
Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.
Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.
Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.
Much as I hate to agree with Viking, he is right, here. The SS was no better motivated than the German Army, even in its best units, but it was better-equipped and kept up to strength, so as to create the impression that it was the political element that made it so powerful. After all, its ultimate purpose was to ensure that the Nazi party was safe against the German Army. Its combat effectiveness against non-German enemies was a bonus (and, as noted, not really added until 1943).
Well, it was better motivated due to the fact that until late in the war the units were all-volunteer. That does make a difference. OTOH, their officers were chosen for political reasons, not competency, which undermined their effectiveness.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:10:58 AM
Got a semi-related question for Before.
One thing that always bugged me when I played SPI's Wacht am Rhein was the OOB of Panzer Lehr. 3 panzergrenedier regiments and one lousy StugIII battallion. WTF? No Panthers? No PzIVs?
Is that accurate for Lehr during the Bulge?
Are you questioning SPI?
AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 16, 2012, 10:12:45 AM
AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.
Right, but so were all the other panzer divisions that participated in the Bulge.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 05:02:16 AM
QuoteI do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.
This is very true of the early SS Motorized Divisions '39-'41ish. The Waffen SS didnt come into their own until early (Jan) '43. From that time on, they (the seven I listed) were usually the armor fist at the tip of the spear for just about every major offensive, counter offensive, or counter attack.
So, overrated....depends on which division(s), when and at what time.
Ditto. But it's not hard to see why Waffen-SS units are often so overrated. On a base level, "Panzer" sounds pretty badass, but "SS Panzer" is ueber-badass.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 16, 2012, 10:12:45 AM
AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.
Right, but so were all the other panzer divisions that participated in the Bulge.
From Wikipedia
QuoteOperation Wacht am Rhein
In Early November Panzer Lehr was transferred to Hasso von Manteuffel's Fifth Panzer Army, part of Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt's Army Group G in preparation for the planned winter offensive, Operation Wacht am Rhein, commonly known as the Battle of the Bulge. On November 21 the fully rested and refitted Panzer Lehr was ordered out of its assembly area to counterattack the American forces driving towards the Saverne Gap. The counterattack stalled out, and Panzer Lehr was called back out of the line, much reduced in strength.
The time spent refitting Panzer Lehr and several other units which had been committed prematurely meant that the operation had to be delayed. During the run up to the offensive Panzer Lehr was kept in reserve, along with the Führer Begleit Brigade. On December 15, the day before the offensive began, Panzer Lehr was still severely understrength, with only one of its two tank battalions ready for action. In compensation it was reinforced by two tank destroyer battalions and an assault gun brigade. The division's armored reconnaissance battalion was its only organic unit up to full strength.
Wacht am Rhein opened on December 16, 1944, and Panzer Lehr moved out from the start positions in the center of the German line. The 26th Volksgrenadier Division was to clear the way for the division, but they soon became bogged down and the Panzer Lehr found itself moving forward at a crawl. The situation worsened over the next two days, with the 901st Panzergrenadier Regiment being halted by the Americans along the road to Wiltz, and the 902nd encountering heavy resistance in the town of Hosingen.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:10:58 AM
Got a semi-related question for Before.
One thing that always bugged me when I played SPI's Wacht am Rhein was the OOB of Panzer Lehr. 3 panzergrenedier regiments and one lousy StugIII battallion. WTF? No Panthers? No PzIVs?
Is that accurate for Lehr during the Bulge?
3 PG regiments dont sound right. Thought there was errata on those. They represent Kampf Groups though.*Shrugs*
But I dont that OOB was accuarate While it was not up to it's pre-normandy strength during the BotB. It did have one panzer battalion and some assault guns. Western theater is not my thing, so maybe someone can post a halfway accurate OOB for that time.
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2012, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:13:42 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 16, 2012, 10:12:45 AM
AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.
Right, but so were all the other panzer divisions that participated in the Bulge.
From Wikipedia
QuoteOperation Wacht am Rhein
In Early November Panzer Lehr was transferred to Hasso von Manteuffel's Fifth Panzer Army, part of Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt's Army Group G in preparation for the planned winter offensive, Operation Wacht am Rhein, commonly known as the Battle of the Bulge. On November 21 the fully rested and refitted Panzer Lehr was ordered out of its assembly area to counterattack the American forces driving towards the Saverne Gap. The counterattack stalled out, and Panzer Lehr was called back out of the line, much reduced in strength.
The time spent refitting Panzer Lehr and several other units which had been committed prematurely meant that the operation had to be delayed. During the run up to the offensive Panzer Lehr was kept in reserve, along with the Führer Begleit Brigade. On December 15, the day before the offensive began, Panzer Lehr was still severely understrength, with only one of its two tank battalions ready for action. In compensation it was reinforced by two tank destroyer battalions and an assault gun brigade. The division's armored reconnaissance battalion was its only organic unit up to full strength.
Wacht am Rhein opened on December 16, 1944, and Panzer Lehr moved out from the start positions in the center of the German line. The 26th Volksgrenadier Division was to clear the way for the division, but they soon became bogged down and the Panzer Lehr found itself moving forward at a crawl. The situation worsened over the next two days, with the 901st Panzergrenadier Regiment being halted by the Americans along the road to Wiltz, and the 902nd encountering heavy resistance in the town of Hosingen.
Useless.
We want numbers man, numbers.
Lehr's normal OOB was
1xPanzer Regiment
2xPanzerGrenadier Regiments
Artillery, recon, etc., etc. etc.
I know that for WaR they only had 1 of their two Panzer battalions, so the Regiment would be half strength. I have no idea why they would show as having three PG regiments though - that is just kind of odd.
OK, so bottom line SPI missed the one panzer battallion. Assault guns were covered by corps level assets.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:36:06 AM
OK, so bottom line SPI missed the one panzer battallion. Assault guns were covered by corps level assets.
It depends on how the designer interpeted the OOB for that operation. The original WaR Lehr OOB looks rather bizzare. Even in the WaR II it shows Lehr with no pure Panzer Bns. But shows what appears as Kampf Groups.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
It depends on how the designer interpeted the OOB for that operation. Even in the WaR II it shows Lehr with no pure Panzer Bns. But shows what appears as Kampf Groups.
SPI showed all battallions as pure battallions. Here's a volksgrenedier battalion, here's a StuH battallion.
I could see having them show as 2 KGs, assuming the Panzer battalion was just divided into each PG regment. I don't see how they could come up with three though.
were the belgians called waffle-ss
Quote from: Berkut on February 16, 2012, 10:50:44 AM
I could see having them show as 2 KGs, assuming the Panzer battalion was just divided into each PG regment. I don't see how they could come up with three though.
True. Here's the WaR II Lehr OOB
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 10:50:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
It depends on how the designer interpeted the OOB for that operation. Even in the WaR II it shows Lehr with no pure Panzer Bns. But shows what appears as Kampf Groups.
SPI showed all battallions as pure battallions. Here's a volksgrenedier battalion, here's a StuH battallion.
J.D. was bizzare sometimes. I wouldnt exactly hold that as a rule.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:04:13 AM
J.D. was bizzare sometimes. I wouldnt exactly hold that as a rule.
Pretty sure JD didn't get a credit on that game. I'm thinking The Fat Man.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 11:05:30 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:04:13 AM
J.D. was bizzare sometimes. I wouldnt exactly hold that as a rule.
Pretty sure JD didn't get a credit on that game. I'm thinking The Fat Man.
Could be. JD is also listed as a designer.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Could be. JD is also listed as a designer.
Quit stalking me.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Could be. JD is also listed as a designer.
Quit stalking me.
You asked. ;)Lower Center.
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So no Fat Man.
I'd forgotten the name Balkowski, but I do remember liking his work.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:48:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Could be. JD is also listed as a designer.
Quit stalking me.
You asked. ;)Lower Center.
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Definitely over-rated. I could penetrate that all day with my IS-4.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 11:49:36 AM
So no Fat Man.
I'd forgotten the name Balkowski, but I do remember liking his work.
True dat.
Op Typhoon
Ney v. Wellington
Atlantic Wall
To name a few.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 11:55:33 AM
True dat.
Op Typhoon
Ney v. Wellington
Atlantic Wall
To name a few.
Typhoon was great.
Ney v. Wellington was the most fun to set up of any game I've set up. Then the firing started and it all went to shit. Personally I think he fucked up the moral penalty for losses. Lose 100 men and the battallion became land fill.
One of the more peculiar things about the Waffen SS was that many units could hold their own. Political militias are typically pretty awful on the battlefield. I think they have an "aura" around them do to both Allied and German propaganda. Their tendency to commit atrocities also made it more difficult to surrender. For instance after massacring a bunch of captured Canadian soldiers the SS found it difficult to surrender to Canadians in Normandy. This refers mostly to the "classic" German ones. Many of the other ones that were composed of conquered or allied people were probably not much different then the average army unit. Sometimes they weren't even volunteers. And some units were just plain bad. The Dirlwanger and Kaminski brigades were just awful. Useful for only terror and rape.
I wonder how the German army soldiers viewed the SS formations. I imagine with some resentment.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 16, 2012, 11:59:07 AM
Ney v. Wellington was the most fun to set up of any game I've set up. Then the firing started and it all went to shit. Personally I think he fucked up the moral penalty for losses. Lose 100 men and the battallion became land fill.
Bingo. Detach your voltigeur company and rout. Wasn't too hard to come up with better rules for moral and discipline, though.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2012, 12:45:08 PM
One of the more peculiar things about the Waffen SS was that many units could hold their own. Political militias are typically pretty awful on the battlefield. I think they have an "aura" around them do to both Allied and German propaganda. Their tendency to commit atrocities also made it more difficult to surrender. For instance after massacring a bunch of captured Canadian soldiers the SS found it difficult to surrender to Canadians in Normandy. This refers mostly to the "classic" German ones. Many of the other ones that were composed of conquered or allied people were probably not much different then the average army unit. Sometimes they weren't even volunteers. And some units were just plain bad. The Dirlwanger and Kaminski brigades were just awful. Useful for only terror and rape.
I wonder how the German army soldiers viewed the SS formations. I imagine with some resentment.
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Quote from: The Brain on February 16, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
were the belgians called waffle-ss
Belgian Waffle-SS.
What an awesome fucking name for a band.
99 LuftWalloons.
Are people 'bumping' this thread in the hope that Hortlund will come back ?
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
Are people 'bumping' this thread in the hope that Hortlund will come back ?
Why, does it bother you?
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
Are people 'bumping' this thread in the hope that Hortlund will come back ?
Why, does it bother you?
Well it Would be amusing, but I think he trying to avoid the bad old days.
edit:I mean the thread really needs an apologist for the SS.
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 08:44:41 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
Are people 'bumping' this thread in the hope that Hortlund will come back ?
Why, does it bother you?
Well it Would be amusing, but I think he trying to avoid the bad old days.
Whatever did happen to him? Anyone know?
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 08:44:41 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 16, 2012, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
Are people 'bumping' this thread in the hope that Hortlund will come back ?
Why, does it bother you?
Well it Would be amusing, but I think he trying to avoid the bad old days.
Whatever did happen to him? Anyone know?
I think he said, he was planning to go into Swedish politics, so obviously what he'd written here could be a source of embarrassment. :hmm:
I think the fact he was completely unethical might hurt him as well. I remember when he was trying to figure out a way to fuck his client in a divorce case. :lol:
Quote from: Cecil on February 16, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Rommel had some strong opinions about lots of things other Nazis really liked.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
I think the fact he was completely unethical might hurt him as well. I remember when he was trying to figure out a way to fuck his client in a divorce case. :lol:
Completely unethical? That wouldn't be a handicap for a politician or a Swede.
Quote from: fahdiz on February 16, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Cecil on February 16, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Rommel had some strong opinions about lots of things other Nazis really liked.
Rommel handed over 4000 mizrahi jews from Libya to be sent to Dachau.
Quote from: Siege on February 16, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 16, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Cecil on February 16, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Rommel had some strong opinions about lots of things other Nazis really liked.
Rommel handed over 4000 mizrahi jews from Libya to be sent to Dachau.
And?
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2012, 10:27:13 PM
Quote from: Siege on February 16, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 16, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Cecil on February 16, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Rommel had some strong opinions about lots of things other Nazis really liked.
Rommel handed over 4000 mizrahi jews from Libya to be sent to Dachau.
And?
Old man, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
Quote from: Siege on February 16, 2012, 10:42:10 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2012, 10:27:13 PM
Quote from: Siege on February 16, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 16, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Cecil on February 16, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
I seem to remember Rommel having some strong opinions about them when his son asked to join up with em.
Rommel had some strong opinions about lots of things other Nazis really liked.
Rommel handed over 4000 mizrahi jews from Libya to be sent to Dachau.
And?
Old man, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
:lol: Awesome line
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
I think the fact he was completely unethical might hurt him as well. I remember when he was trying to figure out a way to fuck his client in a divorce case. :lol:
IIRC, he was trying to bang the client's daughter as well.
Quote from: The Brain on February 16, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
were the belgians called waffle-ss
Not to be confused with:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20060203224147%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2F2%2F2c%2FLuftwaffle.jpeg&hash=8db558c494ad68d9fc9c78326d03b607cd915871)
Quote from: Syt on February 17, 2012, 01:23:47 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 16, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
were the belgians called waffle-ss
Not to be confused with:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20060203224147%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2F2%2F2c%2FLuftwaffle.jpeg&hash=8db558c494ad68d9fc9c78326d03b607cd915871)
The token for the "worst cartoon ever published on languish" has just been passed.
I know you were not posting it because you thought it was funny, but because it paralleled the idea here, but that's one painfully awful cartoon. It will be hard to top.
The Stockholm Metro paper (the original!!1111) nowadays has that cartoonist. Incredibly boring guy.