Waffen-SS - elite units or overrated?

[Viking]

Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.

Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.

Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno, we killed them just as well as any other Kraut.  HOO RAH

[CountDeMoney]

Depended on the unit, but they tended yo be fanatical and well equipped.

So was the Iraqi Republican Guard.

[grumbler]

Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.

Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.

Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.

Much as I hate to agree with Viking, he is right, here.  The SS was no better motivated than the German Army, even in its best units, but it was better-equipped and kept up to strength, so as to create the impression that it was the political element that made it so powerful.  After all, its ultimate purpose was to ensure that the Nazi party was safe against the German Army.  Its combat effectiveness against non-German enemies was a bonus (and, as noted, not really added until 1943).

[Ed Anger]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

And some were wurst.

[CountDeMoney]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

And some were wurst.

Thank you, I just projectile defecated.

[Ed Anger]

 

[11B4V]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

And some were wurst.

Brat??

[Darth Wagtaros]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

And some were wurst.

But they were the best of the wurst.

[grumbler]

And some were wurst.

Brat??

If you follow the Diet of Worms, you go from brat to wurst.

[Admiral Yi]

Got a semi-related question for Before.

One thing that always bugged me when I played SPI's Wacht am Rhein was the OOB of Panzer Lehr.  3 panzergrenedier regiments and one lousy StugIII battallion.  WTF?  No Panthers?  No PzIVs? 

Is that accurate for Lehr during the Bulge?

[Hansmeister]

Keep a unit at full strength while letting others decline to well under half strength as a matter of policy.
Provide that unit with the best and most experienced NCO's from other units.
Provide that unit with the best available equipment.

Then pretend that this unit's manpowers fanatical facist will is the deciding factor and let the grognards ghey themselves up by colouring the counters in cool special colours.

Yes, they were better for clear obvious and understandable reasons.

Much as I hate to agree with Viking, he is right, here.  The SS was no better motivated than the German Army, even in its best units, but it was better-equipped and kept up to strength, so as to create the impression that it was the political element that made it so powerful.  After all, its ultimate purpose was to ensure that the Nazi party was safe against the German Army.  Its combat effectiveness against non-German enemies was a bonus (and, as noted, not really added until 1943).

Well, it was better motivated due to the fact that until late in the war the units were all-volunteer.  That does make a difference.  OTOH, their officers were chosen for political reasons, not competency, which undermined their effectiveness.

[Hansmeister]

Got a semi-related question for Before.

One thing that always bugged me when I played SPI's Wacht am Rhein was the OOB of Panzer Lehr.  3 panzergrenedier regiments and one lousy StugIII battallion.  WTF?  No Panthers?  No PzIVs? 

Is that accurate for Lehr during the Bulge?

Are you questioning SPI?

AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.

[Admiral Yi]

AFAIK, Lehr was virtually wiped out in the falaise pocket and was a shadow of itself after that.

Right, but so were all the other panzer divisions that participated in the Bulge.

[derspiess]

I do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.

This is very true of the early SS Motorized Divisions '39-'41ish. The Waffen SS didnt come into their own until early (Jan) '43. From that time on, they (the seven I listed) were usually the armor fist at the tip of the spear for just about every major offensive, counter offensive, or counter attack.

So, overrated....depends on which division(s), when and at what time.

Ditto.  But it's not hard to see why Waffen-SS units are often so overrated.  On a base level, "Panzer" sounds pretty badass, but "SS Panzer" is ueber-badass.