Waffen-SS - elite units or overrated?

[Syt]

German history magazine "Damals" had as its main feature recently "The SS". It also had an article about the SS during the war which kinda surprised me, but I'm not a nerd-scholar of the era like some here.

Basically, it said that the 5 SS divisions that invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 were badly equipped, that only in 1943 the major expansion/re-equipment of the Waffen-SS took place, and that while the soldiers in those units were highly ideologically motivated, their mythos was created mostly by propaganda (and enhanced by their cruelty in occupied territories), citing that their casualty ratios weren't higher than those of Wehrmacht units.

So - are those white on black counters in some games overpowered? Or what's what?

[The Brain]

Casualty ratios?

[Berkut]

They were a pretty mixed bag overall. Some were crap, others were excellent.

I am not sure looking at their casualty ratio's is really a good measure of their quality though.

I do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.

The SS armored units did get preferential treatment when it came to equipment however.

When it comes to whether you define a unit as "elite" a good chunk of that definition boils down to motivation - so being highly ideologically motivated goes at least a ways down the path towards being "elite". Of course, all the motivation in the world isn't going to help without training, but while I think there were cases where SS units showed a decided lack of training (some of the counter-attacks by the SS units in Normandy, for example) most of that is simply a matter of there being cases by that point in the war that the German training system simply was not capable of executing at the level they were accustomed to - one can certainly find examples of regular Wehrmacht units having poor training as well.

[jimmy olsen]

Depended on the unit, but they tended to be fanatical and well equipped.

[11B4V]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

[syk]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

[11B4V]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

[syk]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

[11B4V]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

You people?????

[Tonitrus]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

You people?????

Grognards.

[syk]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

You people?????

Grognards.

Yup

[11B4V]

For the divisions

Liebstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Hohenstaufen, Frundsberg, and Hitlerjugend were the elite. All other were no better IMO than regular Wehrmacht divisions.

Make it Leibstandarte please. Liebstandarte would translate to "Sweet-natured pennant" 

quite. 6 out of 7, not bad

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

You people?????

Grognards.

Yup

Ahh 

[jimmy olsen]

Always amazed how you people memorize unit names to the letter. But the endearing death heads were just too funny. 

You people?????

Grognards.

[11B4V]

I do know that many Wehrmacht commanders considered them to be highly motivated and tenacious, but tactically clumsy at times, resulting in higher than "normal" casualties being taken.

This is very true of the early SS Motorized Divisions '39-'41ish. The Waffen SS didnt come into their own until early (Jan) '43. From that time on, they (the seven I listed) were usually the armor fist at the tip of the spear for just about every major offensive, counter offensive, or counter attack.

So, overrated....depends on which division(s), when and at what time.

[11B4V]

Casualty ratios?

Kill ratio maybe??????