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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Razgovory on October 25, 2011, 07:05:37 PM

Title: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 25, 2011, 07:05:37 PM
QuoteVietnam's rare Javan rhinoceros was declared extinct in that area after poachers killed the last remaining animal in the country for its horns, the World Wildlife Fund said.

"Vietnam must see this loss as another warning sign of its looming wave of species extinctions," Dr. Barney Long, WWF's Asian species expert, said in a statement. "The single most important action that is needed to save remaining threatened species like tigers and elephants is protection."

The country had been struggling to keep the population alive amid widespread poaching that the WWF said was the cause of many Asian rhino species being brought to the "brink of extinction."

The WWF said people in certain parts of Asia believe the horns, when ground down and dissolved in boiling water, help treat typhoid fever or even cancer, the WWF said, noting that there has been no scientific proof of that.

The group said trying to bring the species back into the area won't work.

"Reintroduction of the rhinoceros to Vietnam is not economically or practically feasible," WWF's Asian Elephant and Rhino Program Coordinator Dr. Christy Williams said.  "It is gone from Vietnam forever."

So now, the Javan rhino only exists in one area in the world, according to the WWF.

The group reported that there is one population of less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia. Now, workers will turn their attention there, working with anti-poaching patrols to hopefully keep the species from going extinct.

"For the Javan rhino, we now have to focus entirely on one site in Indonesia where strengthened protection is needed along with fast-tracking the proposed translocation and habitat management," Long said.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/25/last-rare-rhinoceros-in-vietnam-killed-by-poacher-group-says/?hpt=hp_t2


End communication.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 07:22:10 PM
Sad, but not unexpected. :cry:

I thought the Javan rhino was already extinct.

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: The Brain on October 25, 2011, 08:01:12 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?

Because Indonesia isn't Vietnam, in spite of domino theory?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 08:08:16 PM
They all look the same to me.  :hmm:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 25, 2011, 08:09:55 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?
NOt enough to maintain a population perhaps? As Marty would say, not enough breeders.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: The Brain on October 25, 2011, 08:13:23 PM
That's your solution to everything.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: garbon on October 25, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?

Perhaps you need training in reading comprehension?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Why?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 25, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?

Perhaps you need training in reading comprehension?

Are you available?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Why?
So the species can be revived at a later date.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Why?
So the species can be revived at a later date.
I knew that you wanted to do what, but why bother?  An unexceptional offshoot of a troubled genus isn't really worth it, and it's not like the conditions will be right to reintroduce them in the future anyways.

After humanity is extinct, it would be a much better thing to allow evolution to determine fitness on its own.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: dps on October 25, 2011, 10:18:56 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?

QuoteVietnam's rare Javan rhinoceros was declared extinct in that area

Not exactly well-worded, IMO, but there's your answer.  Though I thought that there hadn't been a confirmed sighting outside of Indonesia since the 1920s.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on October 25, 2011, 11:32:22 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
How can the animal be declared extinct if there are, in fact, still "less than 50 animals in the Ujung Kulon National Park in Java, Indonesia" ?

Extinct in the wild.

There is a possibility that they can reintroduce it, like what was done with the wild Przewalski's Horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski%27s_Horse) in Mongolia.
However, its long-term success depends on stopping idiots in East Asia from using rhino horns (and other endangered species) to attempt to cure their weak libidos and small dicks.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2011, 11:37:39 PM
I could go for some tiger dick soup.  :hmm:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Tonitrus on October 26, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Why?
So the species can be revived at a later date.
I knew that you wanted to do what, but why bother?  An unexceptional offshoot of a troubled genus isn't really worth it, and it's not like the conditions will be right to reintroduce them in the future anyways.

After humanity is extinct, it would be a much better thing to allow evolution to determine fitness on its own.

While Earth will probably be a piece of crap in the future, I am sure Tim envisions planet-national parks where the Javan rhino can be reborn to roam free.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 29, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
The figure is much closer to 100%.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 29, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 25, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
Time to harvest DNA, eggs and sperm for future cloners and artifical wombs, etc.
Why?
So the species can be revived at a later date.
I knew that you wanted to do what, but why bother?  An unexceptional offshoot of a troubled genus isn't really worth it, and it's not like the conditions will be right to reintroduce them in the future anyways.

After humanity is extinct, it would be a much better thing to allow evolution to determine fitness on its own.

Trying to reintroduce a species through cloning is pretty pointless (assuming it has no intrinsic value to human life), but it may be worth it to save the genetic information for accurate simulations of the past, though.

Quote from: TonitrusWhile Earth will probably be a piece of crap in the future, I am sure Tim envisions planet-national parks where the Javan rhino can be reborn to roam free.

Once control over the Earth becomes absolute and our descendants no longer rely upon it, we'll have to deal with the moral problem of nature.  A very good argument can be made for elimination, really, with perhaps only some select species cared for (including humans; and even a program of pet-keeping has some problematic aspects).  Certainly leaving it to its own devices is abhorrent.

But that's very long-term.  In the meantime, poachers should be crucified and their bodies left up till they physically collapse, as a warning to others.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 29, 2011, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 29, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
Once control over the Earth becomes absolute and our descendants no longer rely upon it, we'll have to deal with the moral problem of nature.
See, but here we run into the problem that morality is silly and nonsensical, even moreso than transhumanist fantasies.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 29, 2011, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.

I'm not sure that natural selection covers "The Chinese think hunt the animal to extinctions because they believe the horn cures cancer".  Simply because something is known to occur doesn't mean it is a desirable thing for it to happen right now.  For instance, you will die, but I doubt you are interested in dieing right now.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on October 30, 2011, 12:12:18 AM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.

Jews almost disappeared, too.
What's the big deal?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Capetan Mihali on October 30, 2011, 01:13:59 AM
Our long national nightmare is over.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 02:51:58 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on October 30, 2011, 12:12:18 AM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.

Jews almost disappeared, too.
What's the big deal?
almost :cry:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Nor for you, my ill-fated compadre.  :hmm:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 04:22:11 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Nor for you, my ill-fated compadre.  :hmm:

As a Catholic, I am destined to live forevermore. :pope:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Josquius on October 30, 2011, 04:43:27 AM
Wonder if this bit of rhino horn will be sold for more due to being the last/extra vigorous/whatever...or if, more likely IMO, the killers are oblivious that animals don't grow on trees.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 05:07:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 04:22:11 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Nor for you, my ill-fated compadre.  :hmm:

As a Catholic, I am destined to live forevermore. :pope:
If burning in hell is what you consider living, then sure.  :bowler:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 05:12:09 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 05:07:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 04:22:11 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Nor for you, my ill-fated compadre.  :hmm:

As a Catholic, I am destined to live forevermore. :pope:
If burning in hell is what you consider living, then sure.  :bowler:

I would have thought you would be more sympathetic to the Catholic Church, after all, a Nazi is in charge now.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 05:54:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 05:12:09 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 05:07:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 04:22:11 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 30, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
There will be no "almost" for you, Slargos.  Tick-Tock. :ph34r:
Nor for you, my ill-fated compadre.  :hmm:

As a Catholic, I am destined to live forevermore. :pope:
If burning in hell is what you consider living, then sure.  :bowler:

I would have thought you would be more sympathetic to the Catholic Church, after all, a Nazi is in charge now.
If you put a cherry on top of a tall glass of shit, it's still just a tall glass of shit with a cherry on top.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Martinus on October 30, 2011, 08:23:00 AM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?

The Westerns have a soft spot for saving endangered groups from extinction. See for example: Jews and Holocaust.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 11:45:27 AM
Where is CdM?  This thread is total Seedy bait.  Commie Asians eating rare animals.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 29, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
Once control over the Earth becomes absolute and our descendants no longer rely upon it, we'll have to deal with the moral problem of nature.  A very good argument can be made for elimination, really, with perhaps only some select species cared for (including humans; and even a program of pet-keeping has some problematic aspects).  Certainly leaving it to its own devices is abhorrent.

What the hell is this ridiculous bullshit!? :blink:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 12:53:41 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 29, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
Once control over the Earth becomes absolute and our descendants no longer rely upon it, we'll have to deal with the moral problem of nature.  A very good argument can be made for elimination, really, with perhaps only some select species cared for (including humans; and even a program of pet-keeping has some problematic aspects).  Certainly leaving it to its own devices is abhorrent.
What the hell is this ridiculous bullshit!? :blink:
It's not as ridiculous as it sounds.  Mankind certainly has the right to destroy any species it likes.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 29, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
Once control over the Earth becomes absolute and our descendants no longer rely upon it, we'll have to deal with the moral problem of nature.  A very good argument can be made for elimination, really, with perhaps only some select species cared for (including humans; and even a program of pet-keeping has some problematic aspects).  Certainly leaving it to its own devices is abhorrent.

What the hell is this ridiculous bullshit!? :blink:

Do you argue that the utility of nature has a positive value for its constituents?  I'm willing to entertain the notion, but it seems unlikely.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: garbon on October 30, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.


We have a tendency to think of ourselves as external to nature and feel guilty when we cause the extinction of a species.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on October 30, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 30, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 29, 2011, 09:16:05 PM
I always find funny how people worry so much about extinct species.

I mean, all kind of species are always becoming extint.
I belive you guys call it natural selection or something, and that something like 90% of the species ever existed have become extintc.
So what's the big deal?
Animals disappear all the time.
To conjure a non-white example of extremination, ask the nice little austronesians what they did with all the unique animals that inhabited the Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

It have been happening all the time.


We have a tendency to think of ourselves as external to nature and feel guilty when we cause the extinction of a species.

Don't use the royal "We".
I got no problem massacring all kind of animals as long as there is a reason for it.

Why would it be so bad if in the future the only animals left are domestic animals, useful to people?

The extermination of wild animals is a natural product of human expansion.
Their disappearance will have no direct effect on us, other than opening up land for food production and development.
I don't think we have the moral right to force african nations to keep such large stretches of land as the Serengetti off limits from their own citizenry.

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Capetan Mihali on October 30, 2011, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 11:45:27 AM
Where is CdM?  This thread is total Seedy bait.  Commie Asians eating rare animals.

I think this falls solidly in the "peace with honor" category.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 30, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
I don't think we have the moral right to force african nations to keep such large stretches of land as the Serengetti off limits from their own citizenry.

Of course we do.  And we have the moral right to send the B-52s to Kinshasa if the Congolese are unwilling to police their citizens.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 05:03:33 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 30, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
I don't think we have the moral right to force african nations to keep such large stretches of land as the Serengetti off limits from their own citizenry.

Of course we do.  And we have the moral right to send the B-52s to Kinshasa if the Congolese are unwilling to police their citizens.

You are turning me on. Can we kill Tim's bears?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 05:18:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 30, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
I don't think we have the moral right to force african nations to keep such large stretches of land as the Serengetti off limits from their own citizenry.
Of course we do.  And we have the moral right to send the B-52s to Kinshasa if the Congolese are unwilling to police their citizens.
How will destroying what passes for civilization there help at all?  Wouldn't breaking down their food supply make things worse?

Besides, the US isn't going to do shit.  You guys have been utterly beaten by the Arabs and the Afghans.  At this point, you'll just lob a few cruise missiles in, declare victory, and then let the savages run wild.  That's because Americans lack any kind of morality and they are missing the drive to conquer the world.  The Americans saved the world from the Nazis and the Soviets, only to allow total anarchy to take it instead.  Thanks for nothing.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 05:23:36 PM
Your welcome.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 05:24:20 PM
Don't blame me, I just don't work here.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 05:24:20 PM
Don't blame me, I just don't work here.
Well, it's to be expected.  America abandoned working together in favour of individualism, and also abandoned Christianity, which despite being a laughable pack of nonsense at least allowed people to go about their doomed little lives in peace.  These days, people think that the world owes them a luxurious lifestyle.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 05:40:16 PM
That you do. I'd like a ballwasher.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 05:45:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 05:40:16 PM
That you do. I'd like a ballwasher.
You should hire some Americans to be menials.  Improve the economy and all that.

Except they'd rob you, because Americans don't make good workers.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 05:47:32 PM
I'd have to pay them more than 8 bucks an hour.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.
It's hard, physical work for fairly low pay.  That's not the sort of thing that whites, east asians or blacks can do.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 30, 2011, 06:28:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.

Alabama is wanting their beaners back.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2011, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.
It's hard, physical work for fairly low pay.  That's not the sort of thing that whites, east asians or blacks can do.

Same article said that a good one could make $150/day, but it wasn't clear what "day" meant in that case.  If eight hours, it pays more than doc review.  If sixteen, it still doesn't pay utterly poorly compared to comparable positions.  Certainly no white person is going to work sixteen hours a day in a field, but eight, I don't see the harm.  Then again, the article also pointed out that the whites they hired were so bad at it that they weren't making anything close to $150/day, more like $50, as it's piecework.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on October 30, 2011, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.

You are wrong. Hard labor does not let you think.
On the contrary, hard physical labor makes you stupier.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 06:40:27 PM
Er, no.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: Siege on October 30, 2011, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.

You are wrong. Hard labor does not let you think.
On the contrary, hard physical labor makes you stupier.

Nonsense.  Mechanical clerical work might, but routinized physical tasks leave little to distract from the imagination.  Maybe if one is an idiot in the first place, "there's a fruit, move my arm" may fully task one's processing abilities, but even then I doubt it.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Neil on October 30, 2011, 06:45:43 PM
Depends on the fruit.  There can be a trick to it.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: sbr on October 30, 2011, 06:49:20 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.

When I was in college I spent 2 summers working at the berry processing plant my friend's dad owned.  Most of the work involved standing at the conveyor belt on the sorting lines and picking out the bad berries for 12 hours a day and the vast majority of the workers were Mexicans.  I think there were a small handful of Americans who didn't know the owner who ever worked there.  I got out of school a month earlier than everyone in the Oregon schools, so out of all of the friends I got first pick of jobs the first summer and I ended up in the "QA Lab"* and running the receiving department.** 

The rest of my white American friends came in later after they got out of school.  They ended up stuck on the sorting lines and none of them lasted more than 3 days even though they were getting paid more than they were worth and were working for a good friend's dad who did them a favor to give them the jobs.  Though to be fair to them they lasted a couple of days longer than the average American who did the job.  In the meantime getting the Mexicans to stop working and go home was not always easy, even after a 12 hour (6PM to 6AM) shift.

*Mostly involved doing crossword puzzles while having to check the sugar content of the sliced strawberries + sugar product every 30 minutes.

**Worked the scales while the stinky Russian farmers brought their berries in and had to explain to them again why they weren't getting full price because they let their pickers put too many berries in each crate so they got smashed.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Josquius on October 31, 2011, 11:05:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
I was reading an article the other day about how white people make really bad fruit-pickers, and tend to quit within hours or days.  Doesn't seem terribly hard to me.  Time outdoors, time to think.
That's what they think too. For the first hour or so. Labouring all day does suck.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 01, 2011, 12:26:11 AM
I dunno.  I've worked physical jobs.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 01, 2011, 03:54:14 AM
I have to admit that the first time I saw the title I was thinking of the tanks...
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: dps on November 01, 2011, 05:13:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 01, 2011, 12:26:11 AM
I dunno.  I've worked physical jobs.

Held physical jobs, I'll buy.  Actually worked?  You?  Not buying it.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 01, 2011, 08:55:15 PM
I like physical.

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 01, 2011, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: dps on November 01, 2011, 05:13:29 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 01, 2011, 12:26:11 AM
I dunno.  I've worked physical jobs.

Held physical jobs, I'll buy.  Actually worked?  You?  Not buying it.

You don't know me. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
I don't know you, but I know what you are.



Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 03, 2011, 08:12:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
I don't know you, but I know what you are.

I know what you are too: dumb as a sack of hammers, a borderline pedophile, and worse when you're drunk, which is most of the time.  So fuck off.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Jaron on November 03, 2011, 08:16:02 PM
Get 'em.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 03, 2011, 08:12:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
I don't know you, but I know what you are.

I know what you are too: dumb as a sack of hammers, a borderline pedophile, and worse when you're drunk, which is most of the time.  So fuck off.

Whoa, I was just gonna say that you are a good guy, smart and well spoken.

You hurt my feelings.

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 03, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 03, 2011, 08:12:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
I don't know you, but I know what you are.

I know what you are too: dumb as a sack of hammers, a borderline pedophile, and worse when you're drunk, which is most of the time.  So fuck off.

Whoa, I was just gonna say that you are a good guy, smart and well spoken.

You hurt my feelings.

: /

Er... sorry?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: HVC on November 03, 2011, 08:57:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 03, 2011, 08:12:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
I don't know you, but I know what you are.

I know what you are too: dumb as a sack of hammers, a borderline pedophile, and worse when you're drunk, which is most of the time.  So fuck off.
sieges not dumb, just overly focused. As to the rest, it's part of his arab culture. Seige has no choice :P
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 03, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
Siegey is smarter then he thinks.  He's narrow-minded, but that might not be a bad thing considering his line of work.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 06, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
Hahaha, Ide fell for that?

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: The Brain on November 06, 2011, 04:49:26 PM
lol Siege
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2011, 05:01:30 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 01, 2011, 12:26:11 AM
I dunno.  I've worked physical jobs.

Worst job I've ever had was a one day gig unloading a semi whose contents had spilled off their pallets.  Me and one other dude spent 6 to 8 hours picking up #8 cans of ketchup or some shit and restacking them in boxes and stacking the boxes on pallets.  There's nothing to look forward to. 
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:10:53 PM
Since were sharing.... restaurant dishwasher for me.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2011, 05:14:24 PM
I washed dishes in a pizza joint for about 4 months.  Didn't mind it all that much.

Except the lasagna dishes.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:16:37 PM
I wanted to run my supervisor through the machine.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 06, 2011, 06:19:18 PM
I sorta liked washing dishes.  It was relaxing.  No customers.  Granted, I didn't do that terribly often.  Busing tables I did for several months and off and on even after I started waiting.  It was actually pretty great, you just had to get over the fact that you're gonna wind up kind of gross, which is easy to deal with when you realize that pretty much all of the garbage generated in a restaurant is less than a few hours old.

The only job in a restaurant I ever did that was unavoidably unpleasant is expedition.  I don't know how people do that.  It's like playing a game of Pac-Man in a hot room with controls that only work half the time for four hours straight.  That's not really physical work as such, though.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 06:51:56 PM
Expedition?  I worked at a fast food restaurant for about six hours before telling them to go to hell.  I was getting tired of having hot grease splash onto my face.  Then I fell down, then they laughed at me, and then some other stuff happened that I am prohibited by law to mention.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2011, 06:54:35 PM
The expediter is the person who coordinates between the wait staff and the kitchen staff so that the food comes out in the proper sequence.

In a proper French restaurant that's the job the head chef does.  Well, at least it was when Orwell wrote Down and Out.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 06, 2011, 06:55:40 PM
I cannot do menial work anymore.
For a living, I mean.

Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 06:55:40 PM
I cannot do menial work anymore.
For a living, I mean.

Did you know the word "Sergeant" comes from the old French word for "Servant"?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Malthus on November 07, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
My first job was working in a pottery studeo - basically, wedging clay, carrying boxes full of clay and finished pottery from here to there, and mopping the floors.

Funny story - eventually I moved on to doing more of the actual sculpting, and we attempted to hire college art school types to work in the studeo - that didn't work out so well. The first student's reaction was typical - after a day of carrying stuff and mopping floors, she threw down her mop in disgust and yelled something like "I'm not a janitor, I'm an artist goddamit!" and stormed out.

I remember thinking "oh boy, she's in for a big dissapointment ... "  :lol: Something like 90% of the work in a commercial studeo isn't strictly "art", it's cleaning up, carrying stuff, firing the pottery, accounting, dealing with retailers, customers and suppliers ...
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ed Anger on November 07, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
Then she went to a park and squatted while making weird hand gestures.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 07, 2011, 03:41:37 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 07, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
My first job was working in a pottery studeo - basically, wedging clay, carrying boxes full of clay and finished pottery from here to there, and mopping the floors.

Funny story - eventually I moved on to doing more of the actual sculpting, and we attempted to hire college art school types to work in the studeo - that didn't work out so well. The first student's reaction was typical - after a day of carrying stuff and mopping floors, she threw down her mop in disgust and yelled something like "I'm not a janitor, I'm an artist goddamit!" and stormed out.

I remember thinking "oh boy, she's in for a big dissapointment ... "  :lol: Something like 90% of the work in a commercial studeo isn't strictly "art", it's cleaning up, carrying stuff, firing the pottery, accounting, dealing with retailers, customers and suppliers ...

Well, that's stupid.  Obviously much if not most of the physical work of an artist is going to be craft related.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: dps on November 07, 2011, 09:43:12 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 06:55:40 PM
I cannot do menial work anymore.
For a living, I mean.



Nowdays, Seigy just poisons well and kill babies for his own amusement.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Josquius on November 08, 2011, 12:31:25 AM
The thought of washing dishes makes me shudder. Just...touching other people's left overs is a bit of an illogical phobia of mine.

Not that I'd call that physical labour. There's a difference between some crappy low level menial job and actual labour.
I...actually kind of did have a labourious job when I was a teenager, I was a porter (i.e. trolley pusher and heavy box fetcher) at a super market. Doesn't compare to farming of course but...fairly labourious.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Capetan Mihali on November 08, 2011, 12:43:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 07, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
My first job was working in a pottery studeo - basically, wedging clay, carrying boxes full of clay and finished pottery from here to there, and mopping the floors.

:o  How on Earth did you manage to become a successful corporate lawyer from such a humble start in the world??
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 08, 2011, 01:11:41 AM
He started before the world stopped spinning.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 08, 2011, 01:17:28 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2011, 12:31:25 AM
The thought of washing dishes makes me shudder. Just...touching other people's left overs is a bit of an illogical phobia of mine.

Indeed.  We're all covered in shit and bugs and poison.

QuoteNot that I'd call that physical labour. There's a difference between some crappy low level menial job and actual labour.
I...actually kind of did have a labourious job when I was a teenager, I was a porter (i.e. trolley pusher and heavy box fetcher) at a super market. Doesn't compare to farming of course but...fairly labourious.

Dishwashing and other backroom restaurant work involves a lot of lifting, e.g. 60 gallon garbage cans.  Can't tell you how heavy exactly, and they often varied.  I'd guess, since I was able to lift them into a dumpster, 60-100 pounds?  And of course there's lots of boxes of food, kegs, soda fountain syrup bags, and things like that to be unloaded, moved, and so forth.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Zoupa on November 08, 2011, 03:31:25 AM
My first job was picking beets, 10 hours a day with a bunch of gypsies.  :glare:

Anyways, picking jobs is hard work. It kills your back, you're out in the sun all day with bugs and shit, and you're slow as hell to start with so you feel like a child and/or a tard.

By the end of the summer I estimate I was 2/3 of a gypsy beet picker.  :showoff: My hands turned to leather and I had nice olive skin from all the sunshine.  :cool:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Zoupa on November 08, 2011, 03:33:32 AM
I dunno how you guys did the busboy thing. I lasted 3 weeks. My shirts were perpetually soaked in grease, pay sucks and customers are assholes. Fuck that noise.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Malthus on November 08, 2011, 09:47:39 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 08, 2011, 12:43:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 07, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
My first job was working in a pottery studeo - basically, wedging clay, carrying boxes full of clay and finished pottery from here to there, and mopping the floors.

:o  How on Earth did you manage to become a successful corporate lawyer from such a humble start in the world??

I had that job as a teen (and worked summers all through university). When I graduated, from anthropology of all things, I wanted to open my own studeo, and did for six months or so - but I simply could not make it pay. One sad night I sat down with my account-books and a calculator and realized I was making, after expenses, something like $2 an hour.

Maybe if I had stuck it out for years I could eventually have made a living at it, I dunno. I had enough of being poor, eating Ramen noodles every night, and working my ass off for nothing, and decided to change course - my uni degree was of course worthless for getting a job, and it being the 90s there were no jobs available in academia for anthropologists unless you were a well-connected Black lesbian parapalegic, but my uni marks were excellent and I was very motivated (by justified fear of poverty) to do as well as I could at the LSAT - I sat down and studied that fucker for a solid month before writing it - and that enabled me to get into a top law school here (U of T).

Mostly, I put this down to the taste I had of being essentially a failure in my first business venture, and consequently very poor. I did not enjoy poverty. My studeo had rats in it, I wore stuff from Salvation Army, my parents announced that they would not fund me. I enjoyed even less knowing that many craftspeople remained basically poor even when "successful". Being poor in one's early 20s is reasonably okay, but I dreaded the thought of being poor in my 40s and 50s. Moreover, I realized that to achieve even that level of success, I'd have to concentrate more on making stuff that would sell, rather than stuff I enjoyed making.

I already knew one successful formula for pottery sales - making things aimed at the professional market, like I had made when an employee. But I did not want to make that stuff.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Malthus on November 08, 2011, 09:49:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 08, 2011, 03:33:32 AM
I dunno how you guys did the busboy thing. I lasted 3 weeks. My shirts were perpetually soaked in grease, pay sucks and customers are assholes. Fuck that noise.

I agree - I'd rather by far pick beets than do the busboy thing.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 08, 2011, 01:45:44 PM
Wait, hands of leather?  Aside from being a line from a Garth Brooks song, I don't want anything to do with that.  My hands are soft like silk.  Which is odd, because most restaurant staff have hands made largely of burn scars.  I guess I'm just careful.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 09, 2011, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 08, 2011, 01:45:44 PM
Wait, hands of leather?  Aside from being a line from a Garth Brooks song, I don't want anything to do with that. My hands are soft like silk.  Which is odd, because most restaurant staff have hands made largely of burn scars.  I guess I'm just careful.
:yeahright:
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2011, 08:54:44 PM
He's a pussy, what do you want?
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 11, 2011, 02:53:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 06:55:40 PM
I cannot do menial work anymore.
For a living, I mean.

Did you know the word "Sergeant" comes from the old French word for "Servant"?


Yes.
So?
Samurai means "those who serve".

I serve my country, the United States of America, with honor.

I say "menial work for a living".
As in working in a factory or farm for a living.
I got no problem doing military menial work, like improving defenses or chaneling the enemy into a kill zone.
Of course, we live in the age of manouver warfare....
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Siege on November 11, 2011, 02:56:35 AM
My first job was....[insert the stupiedest thing you cn come up wiht]
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2011, 07:18:58 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2011, 11:45:27 AM
Where is CdM?  This thread is total Seedy bait.  Commie Asians eating rare animals.

The Javan Rhino last week, and the West African Black Rhino this week.  Gone.

Can't save animals that are worth more dead than alive, unfortunately.  That's why tourism, education and awareness won't work.  What you do is make it so prohibitively dangerous for poachers, that the costs outweigh the benefits.  Costs like death.

But, even African nations that are genuinely making efforts to preserve their species are outmanned and outgunned.  Poachers are taking down elephants with RPGs and mowing down herds with mounted .50s, for fuck's sake.

Kenyan forestry rangers patrolling with bolt action rifles, no.  Search and destroy operations with poachers getting poached for their hands and scalps by reinforced companies of former French Foreign Legion mercs, yes.

That's the only kind of conservation I'll subscribe to.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 11, 2011, 07:45:42 AM
The politically incorrect guide to Capitalism said this wouldn't happen. :(
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Razgovory on November 11, 2011, 07:47:53 AM
Quote from: Siege on November 11, 2011, 02:53:09 AM

Yes.
So?
Samurai means "those who serve".

I serve my country, the United States of America, with honor.

I say "menial work for a living".
As in working in a factory or farm for a living.
I got no problem doing military menial work, like improving defenses or chaneling the enemy into a kill zone.
Of course, we live in the age of manouver warfare....

The context is not "those who serve their country", it is "those who serve a knight".  Like a spear polisher.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Tonitrus on November 11, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
I thought some places, like South Africa, is dealing with elephant overpopulation?

Not that I favor shooting elephants with RPGs mind you.  Africa would probably be better off if much of the human population were replaced with elephants.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: The Brain on November 11, 2011, 02:44:53 PM
I got hands like Krupp steel.
Title: Re: No more Rhinos in Vietnam.
Post by: Ideologue on November 11, 2011, 06:27:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2011, 07:18:58 AM

Kenyan forestry rangers patrolling with bolt action rifles, no.  Search and destroy operations with poachers getting poached for their hands and scalps by reinforced companies of former French Foreign Legion mercs, yes.

That's the only kind of conservation I'll subscribe to.

I missed you, you know.