Why the hell would Neo-Nazis visit his grave? I knew they were stupid, but that's just retarded.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15255836,00.html
QuoteRudolf Hess is to be buried at sea 24 years after being laid to rest in a German cemetery. His graveside has been a pilgrimage site for right-wing extremists, but his family deny they were pressured to move the grave.
The remains of Adolf Hitler's deputy in the Nazi party during Germany's Third Reich have been exhumed and are to be buried at sea, it was revealed Thursday.
An official with the Protestant church in the town of Wunsiedel in the southern German state of Bavaria confirmed a report in the Süddeutsche Zeitung that Hess' body was exhumed - and the grave destroyed - early on Wednesday.
This coincided with the 67th anniversary of an attempt by a German officer to assassinate Hitler. Hess' remains are to be cremated and the ashes cast into the sea, but where and when this is to happen has not been announced.
Hess was laid to rest in Wunsiedel following his death in a Berlin prison in 1987. His burial there was delayed for seven months in an effort to avoid the event becoming a magnet for neo-Nazis. Since then, the grave site had been a site of pilgrimage for right-wing extremists, particularly around the anniversary of his death on August 17.
Expired lease
The lease on the grave site was coming up for renewal, but the local church council decided not to extend it. According to the newspaper report, Hess' family had initially objected but eventually agreed to the move.
Rudolf Hess is remembered for having flown and parachuted into Scotland in an apparent bid to bring an early end to World War II by negotiating a peace agreement.
He was found guilty of crimes against peace and conspiracy to plan an aggressive war at the Nuremberg trials in 1946, and sentenced to life in prison. Hess committed suicide in his prison cell at the age of 93.
RIP, idol of Slargos. :(
he lies next to his fellow channeller of hate OBL. B.I.H.
I actually felt sorry for Hess, he was so stupid and crazy he probably had little idea what he was doing (which, after Hitler came to power, wasn't much). He was kept in prison, while many with culpability as great or greater were let go. He probably should have been put in a mental ward. I saw him as sort of a Renfield type character. Also, I think he may be distantly related to me. :ph34r:
When I was in college I found a book that described a conspiracy theory that claimed that Hess was actually killed and someone sent a duplicate to fly to Britain. I only scanned the book, and forgot about it until I starting posting on Pdox where someone brought this up and actually believed this theory. I think it was the most bizarre conspiracy theory I've ever heard of. I was incredulous that anyone could possibly believe something so stupid.
No idea why Nazis still venerate the guy, but they aren't the most level headed types anyway.
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
Lease on a grave? Can't a man ever be free of the threat of eviction? :lol:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 21, 2011, 10:01:22 PM
Lease on a grave? Can't a man ever be free of the threat of eviction? :lol:
I think it's common in Europe, where people can't stand the idea of someone only a bit of land. I'm surprised they haven't evicted all those dead GIs from the military cemeteries.
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
When the Americans did what? Cremate Hess and throw him in the sea? I thought that was something you could do only once.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
When the Americans did what? Cremate Hess and throw him in the sea? I thought that was something you could do only once.
bin Laden.
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
When the Americans did what? Cremate Hess and throw him in the sea? I thought that was something you could do only once.
bin Laden.
That was just the story for public consumption. They took his body to the White House where Obama ate his heart and gained his power.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:24:16 PM
That was just the story for public consumption. They took his body to the White House where Obama ate his heart and gained his power.
What power? :unsure:
I can't discuss this with a Chinese National on the board. You know how it is.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 11:08:44 PM
I can't discuss this with a Chinese National on the board. You know how it is.
How about a Canadian National?
or a British National?
Mono's versatile like that.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 21, 2011, 10:01:22 PM
Lease on a grave? Can't a man ever be free of the threat of eviction? :lol:
I think it's common in Europe, where people can't stand the idea of someone only a bit of land.
No kidding. They sprinkled the Jews all over the place, subject to prevailing winds.
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
When the Americans did what? Cremate Hess and throw him in the sea? I thought that was something you could do only once.
bin Laden.
Completely different. The Americans went in and executed Bin Laden without bringing him to trial.
Hess was tried, found guilty and imprisoned. He offed himself.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:24:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
Wasn't this mega-illegal or something when the Americans did it?
When the Americans did what? Cremate Hess and throw him in the sea? I thought that was something you could do only once.
bin Laden.
That was just the story for public consumption. They took his body to the White House where Obama ate his heart and gained his power.
I thought he threw away the body but saved his skull for use as an inkwell.
After all, there is preceident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ahmad
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2011, 08:38:46 PM
Why the hell would Neo-Nazis visit his grave? I knew they were stupid, but that's just retarded.
It's something for them to cling to. Hess was the last surviving member of Hitler's staff, so for decades while he was locked away in Spandau prison he was in their minds a part of the Reich that lived on. And I guess that personality cult continued after his death.
Yeah, he technically did betray Hitler and the Reich, but in his mind he was doing a service to both by making his bizarre flight. I'm guessing the conspiracy theories & the decades that passed following the war made it easier for neo-nazis to 'rehabilitate' him as one of their own.
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 10:07:36 AM
so for decades while he was locked away in Spandau prison
Martinus has been locked up in Spandau Ballet prison.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.80smusiclyrics.com%2Fartists%2Fimages%2Fspandauballet.jpg&hash=39b16ad9f3415d0bc3d03be5b27e20d288b159cc)
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 10:07:36 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2011, 08:38:46 PM
Why the hell would Neo-Nazis visit his grave? I knew they were stupid, but that's just retarded.
It's something for them to cling to. Hess was the last surviving member of Hitler's staff, so for decades while he was locked away in Spandau prison he was in their minds a part of the Reich that lived on. And I guess that personality cult continued after his death.
Yeah, he technically did betray Hitler and the Reich, but in his mind he was doing a service to both by making his bizarre flight. I'm guessing the conspiracy theories & the decades that passed following the war made it easier for neo-nazis to 'rehabilitate' him as one of their own.
Great. They fetishize a guy
even other Nazis thought was a retard. :D
Quote from: Josephus on July 22, 2011, 08:31:21 AM
Completely different. The Americans went in and executed Bin Laden without bringing him to trial.
He was shot trying to escape!
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2011, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 22, 2011, 08:31:21 AM
Completely different. The Americans went in and executed Bin Laden without bringing him to trial.
He was shot trying to escape!
I thought he was just on the verge of launching another 9-11 just seconds before the US marines, led by Jack Bauer, shot him.
Should've done everyone a bigger favor, and shot Leon Hess.
Quote from: Josephus on July 22, 2011, 10:30:54 AM
I thought he was just on the verge of launching another 9-11 just seconds before the US marines, led by Jack Bauer, shot him.
The US Marines?! WTF?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 22, 2011, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 10:07:36 AM
so for decades while he was locked away in Spandau prison
Martinus has been locked up in Spandau Ballet prison.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.80smusiclyrics.com%2Fartists%2Fimages%2Fspandauballet.jpg&hash=39b16ad9f3415d0bc3d03be5b27e20d288b159cc)
LOLZ
Not the worst thing to remove his grave. In 1994 I drove back home from Prague passing Wunsiedel the very weekend the nazis wanted to march there. Didn't get at first why the border controls took so long and every car was checked. The obvious longhaired leftie I was and with this sticker on the car (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpunk-shop.eu%2Fimg%2F10651.jpg&hash=b63afc3a5cb6b81c9a2f8928b80490d75660af39) we could pass quickly. The next few roadhouses along the autobahn up north were all packed with not so friendly looking skinheads, so the need to pee had to be sucked up till Kassel. <_< That night on TV they showed that a bunch of them went to Luxemburg instead for their march, where the police just handcuffed and piled them up to send them home. One policeman's comment to one of the baldies was something like "Stop whining tough guy." A sight for sore eyes. :lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:08:00 PMI think it's common in Europe, where people can't stand the idea of someone only a bit of land.
In the US, do you keep your plot of land in the cemetery in perpetuity?
In Europe there's a time limt on it, otherwise they'll run out of land to bury people. I'd assumed it was the same in the US, but your comment suggests that it's not the case?
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 12:39:46 PM
In Europe there's a time limt on it, otherwise they'll run out of land to bury people. I'd assumed it was the same in the US, but your comment suggests that it's not the case?
How does it work in Canada? You can still see the cemetaries of the Puritans and Virginia planters but, on the other hand, sometimes urban cemetaries are moved outside the city limits as the land becomes too valuable.
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2011, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 12:39:46 PM
In Europe there's a time limt on it, otherwise they'll run out of land to bury people. I'd assumed it was the same in the US, but your comment suggests that it's not the case?
How does it work in Canada? You can still see the cemetaries of the Puritans and Virginia planters but, on the other hand, sometimes urban cemetaries are moved outside the city limits as the land becomes too valuable.
I don't know for sure, but I'm ninety per cent sure you buy your plot in perpetutiy. Of course we've been burying people for a few centuries less than Euros have, and we're not too concerned about ancient Indian burial grounds
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2011, 12:42:32 PMHow does it work in Canada? You can still see the cemetaries of the Puritans and Virginia planters but, on the other hand, sometimes urban cemetaries are moved outside the city limits as the land becomes too valuable.
I don't know. I've never been involved in a funeral in Canada enough to find out.
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2011, 10:08:00 PMI think it's common in Europe, where people can't stand the idea of someone only a bit of land.
In the US, do you keep your plot of land in the cemetery in perpetuity?
In Europe there's a time limt on it, otherwise they'll run out of land to bury people. I'd assumed it was the same in the US, but your comment suggests that it's not the case?
I've never seen a rental cemetery. All the cemeteries I've seen have permanent residents. Admittedly most cemeteries aren't very old in Jefferson City, there aren't any graves older then the 19th century. I'm pretty sure my great grand father is still in the same place he was 50 years ago.
I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery
Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker :hmm:
But yeah, in Denmark, you rent your plot for however long (in some multiple of decades), and whoever has the leasehold (and it can be passed on down the family) can renew it whenever it's appropriate. So there are still plenty of old family graves around.
However, if at some point no one cares enough to pay the not too onerous fee then eventually the grave will be repurposed (given enough time for the remains in it to decompose anyhow). So as long as your family maintains the grave and so on it's yours*. I've never heard of anything happening like what happened with Hess; I think that's a pretty unique circumstance.
What happens in the US to old graves of people nobody remembers and cares about? Are they ever turned over so new people can be buried there, are they left to decay on their own or are they maintained (and who pays for them)?
*It seems there's an exception if you're somehow noteworthy and famous. In that case I'm guessing the cemetery (usually attached to a church) or maybe the state maintains the grave. But maybe there are private individuals who're maintaining the responsibility instead.
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery
Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker :hmm:
So what happens when it's full up?
I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery
Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker :hmm:
So what happens when it's full up?
I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?
Build a new cemetery. We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live. No idea who maintains it. It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church. There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2011, 01:03:57 PMBuild a new cemetery. We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live. No idea who maintains it. It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church. There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.
Makes sense if you're only worrying about a few hundred years worth of graves, but once you've been burying people for thousands of years you'll likely not want to figure out ways to pay for maintaining all the graves even if you have the room.
I'm mildly surprised by this cultural difference.
Oh... or is there maybe some sort of equivalent of a "homeowners association" for the graveyards, so even though you own the land there's a maintenance fee or something?
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2011, 01:03:57 PMBuild a new cemetery. We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live. No idea who maintains it. It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church. There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.
Makes sense if you're only worrying about a few hundred years worth of graves, but once you've been burying people for thousands of years you'll likely not want to figure out ways to pay for maintaining all the graves even if you have the room.
I'm mildly surprised by this cultural difference.
Oh... or is there maybe some sort of equivalent of a "homeowners association" for the graveyards, so even though you own the land there's a maintenance fee or something?
Here, some graveyards are in effect run by religious institutions, who foot the bill. I grew up near a "full up" graveyard run by a Jewish institution - they paid to have it maintained. Dunno if that would last hundreds of years - of course the point being, it hasn't had to, yet. ;)
Yeah I guess it turns out to be more or less the same in the long run. Somebody's going to have to be interested in and willing to pay for maintaining the site, whether it's as some sort of society or group, or as a individuals and their descendants.
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 12:57:34 PM
What happens in the US to old graves of people nobody remembers and cares about? Are they ever turned over so new people can be buried there,
I've never heard of this happening. Sometimes they're moved so the property can be developed, but I don't know about re-using the same plots for new burials.
Quoteare they left to decay on their own
Many are, yes. There are quite a few old abandoned cemeteries on private property that are overgrown with brush, trees, etc. to the point where you'd never know what's there.
Quoteor are they maintained (and who pays for them)
That varies widely. For old cemeteries that are filled to capacity, the property owner for the cemetery grounds might not want to keep maintaining them without any income to cover the expense. I think in that case they either just let it deteriorate or turn the property over to the city/county.
A fraternal organization I belong to (Odd Fellows) owns a few cemeteries in this area. Some of them are still generating revenue from sales of plots, but one in particular has become a big net liability even though we have some space left. We've pretty much decided to sign the property over to the city of Cincinnati, since by state (?) law they will have to accept the transfer and then assume responsibility for maintenance.
Thanks for the info derSpiess. That makes sense.
I guess in the long run (like centuries) the State will eventually stop maintaining some of the various cemeteries it seems likely to accumulate over time, but you're probably pretty safe in a National Historic Landmark.
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery
Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker :hmm:
So what happens when it's full up?
I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?
This particular place still has space left (it's pretty huge) plus they have a funeral home on site that generates revenue and the chapel is pretty popular for weddings, oddly enough.
http://www.springgrove.org/
Quote from: syk on July 22, 2011, 12:00:29 PM
The obvious longhaired leftie I was and with this sticker on the car (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpunk-shop.eu%2Fimg%2F10651.jpg&hash=b63afc3a5cb6b81c9a2f8928b80490d75660af39) we could pass quickly.
What's the deal with the sticker dude?
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 01:24:13 PM
A fraternal organization I belong to (Odd Fellows) owns a few cemeteries in this area. Some of them are still generating revenue from sales of plots, but one in particular has become a big net liability even though we have some space left.
There's an Odd Fellow cemetary in my home town, too. I think that it's just about full. There's some undeveloped land around it, so I suppose that they could expand it if they wanted to, but I kind of doubt that they want to.
There are 2 large, commercially run cemetaries in the area, and they're huge--I doubt that they'll run out of room anytime this century.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2011, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: syk on July 22, 2011, 12:00:29 PM
The obvious longhaired leftie I was and with this sticker on the car (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpunk-shop.eu%2Fimg%2F10651.jpg&hash=b63afc3a5cb6b81c9a2f8928b80490d75660af39) we could pass quickly.
What's the deal with the sticker dude?
In the 80s and early 90s there were a certain amount of overlap between violent neo-fascist groups and hooligan supporters of various soccer clubs in Europe. That offended a number of non-fascist soccer supporters, including some who were just as thuggish as the violent neo-fascists.
The sticker says that this guy is a fan of St. Pauli and that while he may not personally be into having street fights with neo-fascist thugs he probably approves of those who do.
Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be buried at sea when he died?
Five sailors died digging his grave.
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 03:15:57 PM
In the 80s and early 90s there were a certain amount of overlap between violent neo-fascist groups and hooligan supporters of various soccer clubs in Europe. That offended a number of non-fascist soccer supporters, including some who were just as thuggish as the violent neo-fascists.
The sticker says that this guy is a fan of St. Pauli and that while he may not personally be into having street fights with neo-fascist thugs he probably approves of those who do.
I think that Serb Militia, Arkan's Tigers started off as a bunch of Football hooligans. Unpleasant bunch.
Football is a disagreeable sport; if only the Serbs had been converted to cricket..............there would have been no genocide :hmm:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 22, 2011, 04:25:41 PM
Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be buried at sea when he died?
Five sailors died digging his grave.
:D
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2011, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 12:57:34 PM
What happens in the US to old graves of people nobody remembers and cares about? Are they ever turned over so new people can be buried there,
I've never heard of this happening. Sometimes they're moved so the property can be developed, but I don't know about re-using the same plots for new burials.
Wasn't there a big scandal in the last couple of years at some cemetery (in Virginia I think) where they reused a lot burial plots? IIRC the owner was arrested for desecrating graves, fraud, etc.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2011, 04:33:56 PM
I think that Serb Militia, Arkan's Tigers started off as a bunch of Football hooligans. Unpleasant bunch.
Correct. They were indeed present at the game that to many marked the start of the civil war in Yugoslavia and attacked the Dinamo Zagreb players. Zvonimir Boban of Dinamo managed to get a few kicks in as well.
When Arkan died, his close friend Sinisa Mihajlovic, a very good player, but appalling human being, applauded a tribute made by SS Lazio fans.
Football and politics are a dangerous brew.
Quote from: Norgy on July 23, 2011, 05:57:46 AM
Football and politics are a dangerous brew.
Of all the squirrelly ass sports...
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2011, 01:03:57 PMBuild a new cemetery. We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live. No idea who maintains it. It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church. There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.
Makes sense if you're only worrying about a few hundred years worth of graves, but once you've been burying people for thousands of years you'll likely not want to figure out ways to pay for maintaining all the graves even if you have the room.
I'm mildly surprised by this cultural difference.
Oh... or is there maybe some sort of equivalent of a "homeowners association" for the graveyards, so even though you own the land there's a maintenance fee or something?
North America is a pretty big place.
That said, embalming people and burying them is inherently evil.
Quote from: Josephus on July 22, 2011, 08:31:21 AM
Completely different. The Americans went in and executed Bin Laden without bringing him to trial.
Yeah the Americans did that to a coupla hundred thousand German soldiers in both World wars, too. Didn't even bring 'em to trial. Just shot them. :mad: