Hess Buried At Sea

[derspiess]

I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery

Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker 

[Jacob]

But yeah, in Denmark, you rent your plot for however long (in some multiple of decades), and whoever has the leasehold (and it can be passed on down the family) can renew it whenever it's appropriate. So there are still plenty of old family graves around.

However, if at some point no one cares enough to pay the not too onerous fee then eventually the grave will be repurposed (given enough time for the remains in it to decompose anyhow). So as long as your family maintains the grave and so on it's yours*. I've never heard of anything happening like what happened with Hess; I think that's a pretty unique circumstance.

What happens in the US to old graves of people nobody remembers and cares about? Are they ever turned over so new people can be buried there, are they left to decay on their own or are they maintained (and who pays for them)?

*It seems there's an exception if you're somehow noteworthy and famous. In that case I'm guessing the cemetery (usually attached to a church) or maybe the state maintains the grave. But maybe there are private individuals who're maintaining the responsibility instead.

[Jacob]

I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery

Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker 

So what happens when it's full up?

I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?

[Razgovory]

I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery

Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker 

So what happens when it's full up?

I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?

Build a new cemetery.  We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live.  No idea who maintains it.  It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church.  There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.

[Jacob]

Build a new cemetery.  We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live.  No idea who maintains it.  It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church.  There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.

Makes sense if you're only worrying about a few hundred years worth of graves, but once you've been burying people for thousands of years you'll likely not want to figure out ways to pay for maintaining all the graves even if you have the room.

I'm mildly surprised by this cultural difference.

Oh... or is there maybe some sort of equivalent of a "homeowners association" for the graveyards, so even though you own the land there's a maintenance fee or something?

[Malthus]

Build a new cemetery.  We have at least one cemetery that is filled where I live.  No idea who maintains it.  It's a Catholic cemetery so possibly the church.  There's a veterans cemetery but I think that one is maintained by the Feds.

Makes sense if you're only worrying about a few hundred years worth of graves, but once you've been burying people for thousands of years you'll likely not want to figure out ways to pay for maintaining all the graves even if you have the room.

I'm mildly surprised by this cultural difference.

Oh... or is there maybe some sort of equivalent of a "homeowners association" for the graveyards, so even though you own the land there's a maintenance fee or something?

Here, some graveyards are in effect run by religious institutions, who foot the bill. I grew up near a "full up" graveyard run by a Jewish institution - they paid to have it maintained. Dunno if that would last hundreds of years - of course the point being, it hasn't had to, yet. 

[Jacob]

Yeah I guess it turns out to be more or less the same in the long run. Somebody's going to have to be interested in and willing to pay for maintaining the site, whether it's as some sort of society or group, or as a individuals and their descendants.

[derspiess]

What happens in the US to old graves of people nobody remembers and cares about? Are they ever turned over so new people can be buried there,

I've never heard of this happening.  Sometimes they're moved so the property can be developed, but I don't know about re-using the same plots for new burials.

are they left to decay on their own

Many are, yes.  There are quite a few old abandoned cemeteries on private property that are overgrown with brush, trees, etc. to the point where you'd never know what's there.

or are they maintained (and who pays for them)

That varies widely.  For old cemeteries that are filled to capacity, the property owner for the cemetery grounds might not want to keep maintaining them without any income to cover the expense.  I think in that case they either just let it deteriorate or turn the property over to the city/county. 

A fraternal organization I belong to (Odd Fellows) owns a few cemeteries in this area.  Some of them are still generating revenue from sales of plots, but one in particular has become a big net liability even though we have some space left.  We've pretty much decided to sign the property over to the city of Cincinnati, since by state (?) law they will have to accept the transfer and then assume responsibility for maintenance.

[Jacob]

Thanks for the info derSpiess. That makes sense.

I guess in the long run (like centuries) the State will eventually stop maintaining some of the various cemeteries it seems likely to accumulate over time, but you're probably pretty safe in a National Historic Landmark.

[derspiess]

I've already got myself a spot here that will be mine forever & ever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Grove_Cemetery

Wonder if I can trade someone to get a plot close to Gen. Hooker 

So what happens when it's full up?

I assume there's plenty of land, so new cemeteries will be made for newly dead people. But what happens at the cemetery itself? Who pays for maintaining the graves? I guess since it's a Natural Historic Landmark, maybe the tax payers pick up some of the tab? But what happens at cemeteries that don't have that distinction once they're full? Do they have other sources of revenue, beyond selling plots?

This particular place still has space left (it's pretty huge) plus they have a funeral home on site that generates revenue and the chapel is pretty popular for weddings, oddly enough. 

http://www.springgrove.org/

[Admiral Yi]

The obvious longhaired leftie I was and with this sticker on the car we could pass quickly.

What's the deal with the sticker dude?

[dps]

A fraternal organization I belong to (Odd Fellows) owns a few cemeteries in this area.  Some of them are still generating revenue from sales of plots, but one in particular has become a big net liability even though we have some space left. 

There's an Odd Fellow cemetary in my home town, too. I think that it's just about full.  There's some undeveloped land around it, so I suppose that they could expand it if they wanted to, but I kind of doubt that they want to. 

There are 2 large, commercially run cemetaries in the area, and they're huge--I doubt that they'll run out of room anytime this century.

[Jacob]

The obvious longhaired leftie I was and with this sticker on the car we could pass quickly.

What's the deal with the sticker dude?

In the 80s and early 90s there were a certain amount of overlap between violent neo-fascist groups and hooligan supporters of various soccer clubs in Europe. That offended a number of non-fascist soccer supporters, including some who were just as thuggish as the violent neo-fascists.

The sticker says that this guy is a fan of St. Pauli and that while he may not personally be into having street fights with neo-fascist thugs he probably approves of those who do.

[Ed Anger]

Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be buried at sea when he died?

Five sailors died digging his grave.

[Razgovory]

In the 80s and early 90s there were a certain amount of overlap between violent neo-fascist groups and hooligan supporters of various soccer clubs in Europe. That offended a number of non-fascist soccer supporters, including some who were just as thuggish as the violent neo-fascists.

The sticker says that this guy is a fan of St. Pauli and that while he may not personally be into having street fights with neo-fascist thugs he probably approves of those who do.

I think that Serb Militia, Arkan's Tigers started off as a bunch of Football hooligans.  Unpleasant bunch.