Languish.org

For the purpose of this poll, consider nerdiness anything from watching Monty Python movies, gaming to dressing up as an anime character and going mew at unknown people. Small anecdothe first:

So, today while having lunch and chatting with a couple of co-workers that are heavily into imported TV shows (it's something extremely popular over here in the last few years) one of them mentioned that she was following the new Game of Thrones HBO show, but hadn't read the novels. So we start to talk about it, and I fill her with the details she didn't get from just watching the show. At some point she mentions that some friends of her play some kind of Game of Thrones RPG, and asks me if I do. And I can't bring myself to admit it.

This is something that I've been doing since I was a teenager, hiding either partially or totally the depth of my nerdiness, out of, mostly, shame or fear of embarrassment. When I started playing RPGs I hid it from my parents. Only my closer friends in high school knew about it. When my buddies dressed up for carnival I never joined them. When I started working I never mentioned it to co-workers. Gradually I've phased out all the nerdier t-shirts I used to have. Only my equally nerdy buddies know it perfectly well, and when I meet new groups of people if they don't know it first I don't usually bring it up.

So, what about you? Is it only me the one who is behaving like a weirdo or is nerdiness still percieved as some sort of social stigma?

Is there a difference between being a nerd and being a geek?  I'm unambiguously geeky, but I've never done stereotypically nerdy things, like watching Star Wars intentionally or reading a comic.

I don't know. Nerdiness as you describe it here is such part of mainstream culture now it seems to me.

I really dislike folks who can't restrain their nerd shit. Keep it in the closet folks.

I don't want to walk into a Gamestop to pick up a manly sports game and see two grown men hitting each other with lightsabers. Fucking Nerds.

Meh, I am what I am. I don't hide anything.

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:04:39 AM
I don't know. Nerdiness as you describe it here is such part of mainstream culture now it seems to me.

Yeah, and it seems to be getting more so every year.

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:04:39 AM
I don't know. Nerdiness as you describe it here is such part of mainstream culture now it seems to me.

Even the "going mew at people" part?  :P

My history/sports nerdiness is pretty up front.

Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2011, 10:06:51 AM

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:04:39 AM
I don't know. Nerdiness as you describe it here is such part of mainstream culture now it seems to me.

Even the "going mew at people" part?  :P

Anime freaks need to diaf

- Open about: mainstream games, history, baseball, metal + classical music
- Open to a few: RPGing, animes/mangas, comics, horror/splatter movies, Star Wars, Star Trek, computer wargames
- Open to no one I know in real life: making maps, world building, making private mods for games (e.g. graphics/unis/logos for OOTP, some scenario building etc.), watching sfdebris reviews etc.

But I mean big bang theory is popular on tv, as is stuff like mythbusters. Comic book adaptations are all over the big screen...

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:08:20 AM

Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2011, 10:06:51 AM

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:04:39 AM
I don't know. Nerdiness as you describe it here is such part of mainstream culture now it seems to me.

Even the "going mew at people" part?  :P

Anime freaks need to diaf

squee

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 10:09:46 AM
But I mean big bang theory is popular on tv, as is stuff like mythbusters. Comic book adaptations are all over the big screen...

About Big Bang Theory, yeah, the series is popular and mainstream, but what the characters themselves do is many times mocked. Then again they're over the top stereotypes.

I have noticed my tolerance declining rapidly as I get older.

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:04:31 AM
Is there a difference between being a nerd and being a geek?  I'm unambiguously geeky, but I've never done stereotypically nerdy things, like watching Star Wars intentionally or reading a comic.

Is Vin Diesel a nerd? Because according to Larch's definition, he certainly would since he is a D&D addict and even wrote D&D fanfics. Ask any chick whether Vin Diesel is a geek, though.

I object to a definition of "nerd" tied to a trade. A nerd is a socially inept dweeb acting like an inferior and treated as such by others, whether he plays chess or is a master karateka. The activities or pursuits associated to it is due to correlation, not causation.

To me, there is nothing to be proud to be labeled a nerd, period. It's by definition derogatory; if you are labeled a nerd, you are doing something wrong and should get your shit together. Geek is just an attempt to put a positive spin to it to make it easier to live with, but they remain nerds by any other name.

I'm out. Well I think I'm out. I work with 50 or so, other Software & hardware engineers, it's nerd club around here.

At work, I am 'out' to some people, namely people who I know by their profession are the same as me.  Examples: DBAs, software developers, etc.

I am not out to all of the accounting and finance people, though.  As far as they know my only hobbies are gardening and other sundry yardwork, boating, fishing, and shooting.

Quote from: Ed Anger on May 09, 2011, 10:11:43 AM
I have noticed my tolerance declining rapidly as I get older.

You're becoming less tolerant? Jesus. when you gonna start sending letter bombs? :D

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:14:49 AM

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:04:31 AM
Is there a difference between being a nerd and being a geek?  I'm unambiguously geeky, but I've never done stereotypically nerdy things, like watching Star Wars intentionally or reading a comic.

Is Vin Diesel a nerd? Because according to Larch's definition, he certainly would since he is a D&D addict and even wrote D&D fanfics. Ask any chick whether Vin Diesel is a geek, though.

I object to a definition of "nerd" tied to a trade. A nerd is a socially inept dweeb acting like an inferior in presence of others, whether he plays chess or is a master karateka. The activities or pursuits associated to it is due to correlation, not causation.

To me, there is nothing to be proud to be labeled a nerd, period. It's by definition derogatory; if you are labeled a nerd, you are doing something wrong and should get your shit together. Geek is just an attempt to put a positive spin to it to make it easier to live with, but they remain nerds by any other name.

If Dr. Phil were a drill sergeant, he would be like Drakken.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:14:49 AM

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:04:31 AM
Is there a difference between being a nerd and being a geek?  I'm unambiguously geeky, but I've never done stereotypically nerdy things, like watching Star Wars intentionally or reading a comic.

Is Vin Diesel a nerd? Because according to Larch's definition, he certainly would since he is a D&D addict and even wrote D&D fanfics. Ask any chick whether Vin Diesel is a geek, though.

I object to a definition of "nerd" tied to a trade. A nerd is a socially inept dweeb acting like an inferior and treated as such by others, whether he plays chess or is a master karateka. The activities or pursuits associated to it is due to correlation, not causation.

To me, there is nothing to be proud to be labeled a nerd, period. It's by definition derogatory; if you are labeled a nerd, you are doing something wrong and should get your shit together. Geek is just an attempt to put a positive spin to it to make it easier to live with, but they remain nerds by any other name.

Just like gay is a derogatory term, right?

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:31:41 AM
Just like gay is a derogatory term, right?

Strawman. Are you really equating social awkwardness and/or ineptitude with sexual identity, as if it was something people were born with? :huh:

Gays are born gay, nerds remain nerds because they choose to. There is something linked to sexual behavior in nerdiness, though: the longer you remain one, your chances of dying alone, virgin and childless increase exponentially.

This "nerd pride" bullshit is getting on my nerves. What's so attractive in remaining social outcasts debating on comics or Star Wars all day long, what's the mystique in it?

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:37:04 AM
Gays are born gay, nerds remain nerds because they choose to.

I'm not sure that either of those can be considered proven.  Note that I'm not saying that being gay is a choice, just that simply because something isn't a choice doesn't mean you are necessarily born that way.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:37:04 AMsocial awkwardness [sic] as if it was something people were born with?

uh..? :unsure:

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 10:41:18 AM
I'm not sure that either of those can be considered proven.  Note that I'm not saying that being gay is a choice, just that simply because something isn't a choice doesn't mean you are necessarily born that way.

I am conscious that development of homosexuality can be a highly complex mixture of nature and nurture anchored from childhood, but still by all intents and purposes being gay is not a matter of personal choice. Wishing not to be gay and remaining in the closet won't stop from being gay, it's a sexual identity.

With most people.
If I just meet a new 'cool' person then I keep it quiet at first and steadily let it trickle out but with family I'm 'flaming' (hey, they've seen my warhammer) and with friends they generally know I'm a geek. I don't reveal the full depths of it of course. That would be social suicide.

@drakken- example: the autistic have only themselves to blame :yes: ?

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:37:04 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:31:41 AM
Just like gay is a derogatory term, right?

Strawman. Are you really equating social awkwardness and/or ineptitude with sexual identity, as if it was something people were born with? :huh:

Gays are born gay, nerds remain nerds because they choose to. There is something linked to sexual behavior in nerdiness, though: the longer you remain one, your chances of dying alone, virgin and childless increase exponentially.

This "nerd pride" bullshit is getting on my nerves. What's so attractive in remaining social outcasts debating on comics or Star Wars all day long, what's the mystique in it?

Of course it's getting on your nerves. Nerds always get on Jocks nerves. I'm sorry that all my social activity aren't trying to get laid with as many girls as possible.

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 10:41:18 AM
I'm not sure that either of those can be considered proven.  Note that I'm not saying that being gay is a choice, just that simply because something isn't a choice doesn't mean you are necessarily born that way.

FWIW I've never met a gay person who didn't claim to be born gay.  I suppose it's possible that some or all of them are lying, but seems pretty unlikely as I'm not sure why one would choose an orientation that would bring them ridicule, discrimination, and in some cases physical harm. :hmm:

Am I the only one getting a feeling that whenever Drakken goes uber-macho on us, he's seriously over-compensating for something?

Quote from: LaCroix on May 09, 2011, 10:47:26 AM
@drakken- example: the autistic have only themselves to blame :yes: ?

:lmfao:

Again, strawman. Are you equating nerdiness to an illness or a status based on defaults in development, either physical or mental?

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:49:30 AM
Am I the only one getting a feeling that whenever Drakken goes uber-macho on us, he's seriously over-compensating for something?

So, I don't agree on "nerd" being a good thing or a positive attribute. So what?

Present me arguments on why being a nerd is a quality or a positive thing for an individual being so, and we'll debate.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:37:04 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:31:41 AM
Just like gay is a derogatory term, right?

Strawman. Are you really equating social awkwardness and/or ineptitude with sexual identity, as if it was something people were born with? :huh:

Gays are born gay, nerds remain nerds because they choose to. There is something linked to sexual behavior in nerdiness, though: the longer you remain one, your chances of dying alone, virgin and childless increase exponentially.

This "nerd pride" bullshit is getting on my nerves. What's so attractive in remaining social outcasts debating on comics or Star Wars all day long, what's the mystique in it?

You are posting on a chat board whose members consist of outcasts from a Swedish history-based gaming site. And you are one of them. :D

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:48:35 AM
Of course it's getting on your nerves. Nerds always get on Jocks nerves. I'm sorry that all my social activity aren't trying to get laid with as many girls as possible.

Ah, the old "either/or" "nerd/jock" binary definition. Not out of high school, yet?

Being a former nerd myself, I have grounds to argue that nerd is a wholly negative attitude of self-defeat.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:54:04 AM

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:37:04 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:31:41 AM
Just like gay is a derogatory term, right?

Strawman. Are you really equating social awkwardness and/or ineptitude with sexual identity, as if it was something people were born with? :huh:

Gays are born gay, nerds remain nerds because they choose to. There is something linked to sexual behavior in nerdiness, though: the longer you remain one, your chances of dying alone, virgin and childless increase exponentially.

This "nerd pride" bullshit is getting on my nerves. What's so attractive in remaining social outcasts debating on comics or Star Wars all day long, what's the mystique in it?

You are posting on a chat board whose members consist of outcasts from a Swedish history-based gaming site. And you are one of them. :D

He is a mod there, to boot.  :P

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:50:31 AM:lmfao:

Again, strawman. Are you equating nerdiness to an illness or a status based on defaults in development, either physical or mental?

:lmfao:

no? reread what i said, and what it was in reference to

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:54:04 AM
You are posting on a chat board whose members consist of outcasts from a Swedish history-based gaming site. And you are one of them. :D

Doesn't equate that all here are nerds, correlation doesn't equal causation. Again, the fallacy of equating the pursue of activities defined as "nerdy" as being a nerd.

Here is the Webster's definition of a nerd. What comes on first?

Quote
Definition of NERD

Quote: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits <computer nerds>

Anyway, this is my fucking poll and I don't want it derailed with the nth debate about semantics. For the purpose of the poll what I mean are the activities themselves, I don't want to enter into anybody's personalities.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:51:14 AM

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:49:30 AM
Am I the only one getting a feeling that whenever Drakken goes uber-macho on us, he's seriously over-compensating for something?

So, I don't agree on "nerd" being a good thing or a positive attribute. So what?

Present me arguments on why being a nerd is a quality or a positive thing for an individual being so, and we'll debate.

It's not so much what you're saying as it is how you're saying it.  Your act seems to be too tough to not be false.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:56:21 AMHere is the Webster's definition of a nerd. What comes on first?

Quote
Definition of NERD

Quote: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits <computer nerds>

this really isn't helping your earlier claim that the "socially awkward" choose their fates, and thus deserve what they have coming to them

Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2011, 10:57:43 AM
Anyway, this is my fucking poll and I don't want it derailed

You probably picked the wrong forum to post it on, then. :blush:

I always thought of "nerd" as connoting a bookish academic sort and "geek" as being somebody into sci fi, fantasy, comics, etc. Considering Larch and Drakken's definitions differ from that, and from each other, it's not clear that there's any particular distinction between the two that has reached a critical mass. The words are in flux and can both be used as synonyms for a socially awkward person, but anything beyond that is likely to be misconstrued.

Edit- apparently Webster agrees with me though. :yeah:

Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2011, 10:59:25 AM

Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2011, 10:57:43 AM
Anyway, this is my fucking poll and I don't want it derailed

You probably picked the wrong forum to post it on, then. :blush:

I don't mind if it's derailed in a good way. A pointless debate about semantics is not what I'd consider a good way.  :lol:

does drakken know psychology, or only pseudo-seductologies?  :(

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:56:21 AM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:54:04 AM
You are posting on a chat board whose members consist of outcasts from a Swedish history-based gaming site. And you are one of them. :D

Doesn't equate that all here are nerds, correlation doesn't equal causation. Again, the fallacy of equating the pursue of activities defined as "nerdy" as being a nerd.

Here is the Webster's definition of a nerd.

Quote
Definition of NERD

Quote: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits <computer nerds>

Yeah, but I think it is you who have it backwards - you are equating certain pursuits with being "unattractive and socially inept" - such as debating about comic books or star wars or whatever. You've swallowed the stereotype.

Me, I'm totally open about my interests - many of which are stereotypically those of the classic "nerd" of legend - but I do not feel myself to be unattractive and socially inept. For one, I've never lacked for female companionship.  ;)

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:58:13 AM
It's not so much what you're saying as it is how you're saying it.  Your act seems to be too tough to not be false.

It's like Ed Anger said: the older I get, the more intolerant I become. It's less "toughness" than utter contempt for those people who remain nerds well passed their adulthood threshold and present it as a badge of pride and honor, rather than grow out of it.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:56:21 AM

Definition of NERD

Quote: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits <computer nerds>

[/quote]

I would say slavish devotion to intellectual and academic pursuits is something to be both proud of and strive for. The social outcast thing really only matters when you're between 6-26. Once you start working, people will wish they had been nerds.

That said, I lack the devotion and stamina to be a real nerd. Like most other things I do, my nerdiness is half-assed.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:54:17 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 09, 2011, 10:48:35 AM
Of course it's getting on your nerves. Nerds always get on Jocks nerves. I'm sorry that all my social activity aren't trying to get laid with as many girls as possible.

Ah, the old "either/or" "nerd/jock" binary definition. Not out of high school, yet?

Being a former nerd myself, I have grounds to argue that nerd is a wholly negative attitude of self-defeat.

Let's assume that all of us here are nerds. This is a social activity. Because we somehow partake in a social activity we are not nerds anymore?

I disagree with the premise that you stopped being a nerd because you somehow found social aptitude.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 11:02:07 AM

Yeah, but I think it is you who have it backwards - you are equating certain pursuits with being "unattractive and socially inept" - such as debating about comic books or star wars or whatever. You've swallowed the stereotype.

On the contrary, my friend. I dissociate the pursue of unattractive activities with nerdiness, hence my Vin Diesel example in my first post.

The defining thing for "nerd" is being a social inept and a dweeb, whether he is a rocket scientist or not.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 09, 2011, 11:00:19 AM
I always thought of "nerd" as connoting a bookish academic sort and "geek" as being somebody into sci fi, fantasy, comics, etc. Considering Larch and Drakken's definitions differ from that, and from each other, it's not clear that there's any particular distinction between the two that has reached a critical mass. The words are in flux and can both be used as synonyms for a socially awkward person, but anything beyond that is likely to be misconstrued.

Edit- apparently Webster agrees with me though. :yeah:

Who cares what short black dude thinks

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 11:04:18 AM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 11:02:07 AM

Yeah, but I think it is you who have it backwards - you are equating certain pursuits with being "unattractive and socially inept" - such as debating about comic books or star wars or whatever. You've swallowed the stereotype.

On the contrary, my friend. I dissociate the pursue of unattractive activities with nerdiness, hence my Vin Diesel example in my first post.

If all "nerd" means to you is "being unattractive and socially inept", then your position sorta seems circular, no?

Yes, being socially inept is a bad thing. So is being unattractive. I doubt anyone would disagree ... but if this has nothing to do with pursuit of certain activities, what is the point?

The way I've always heard it:
Geekishness is being into sci-fi, history, and other rather nerdy persuits. It can be exclusive to one thing or cover the whole spectrum of geekdom.
To be a nerd is to be absolutely obsessed with these things and quite the social retard.
Intelligence levels don't enter into it, though of course geeks and nerds to tend to be on the smarter side of average- probally because their persuits of choice lead to reading more rather than those who are into more normal things, not any inherant superiority.

In my teens I was more self-conscious about it since the nerdy clique was very small at my school and I took a lot of shit for my gaming ways.

Today? It wouldn't cross my mind to hestitate in talking about my interests if questioned on the subject, but it's not like "hey, I'm a 30 year old nerd who likes to spend his evenings playing Fallout: New Vegas" is a great conversation starter at the bar. Or at least, I have never met any female gamers that I KNOW of.  :D

Still, a lot of people of my age and up don't really "get" gaming as such so it's still a topic which causes some raised eyebrows and baffled questions.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 11:07:46 AM
If all "nerd" means to you is "being unattractive and socially inept", then your position sorta seems circular, no?

How it is circular?

Socially inept and unattractive = nerd. Socially apt and at least average attractiveness = not nerd. Having "nerdy activities" comes for nothing into it, at all.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 11:02:48 AM

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:58:13 AM
It's not so much what you're saying as it is how you're saying it.  Your act seems to be too tough to not be false.

It's like Ed Anger said: the older I get, the more intolerant I become. It's less "toughness" than utter contempt for those people who remain years well passed their adulthood threshold and present as a badge of pride and honor, rather than grow out of it.

I guess my mental picture of you was incompatible with the image you're currently projecting, hence my skepticism.  I'm not convinced yet, though, and I'm not sure you're convinced either.

You think being unattractive is a choice?  :huh:

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 11:11:54 AM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 11:07:46 AM
If all "nerd" means to you is "being unattractive and socially inept", then your position sorta seems circular, no?

How it is circular?

Socially inept and unattractive = nerd. Socially apt and at least average attractiveness = not nerd. Having "nerdy activities" comes for nothing into it, at all.

Because somehow, somewhere, the stereotype that nerds are those "into" certain activites figures into it - and everyone knows it. Even you.  ;)

Hence your quote upthread:

QuoteThis "nerd pride" bullshit is getting on my nerves. What's so attractive in remaining social outcasts debating on comics or Star Wars all day long, what's the mystique in it?

Also, the whole basis of this thread.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 09, 2011, 11:13:14 AM
You think being unattractive is a choice?  :huh:

Unless you are deformed as Quasimodo, being unkempt, ungroomed, and styleless is a choice. If you are physically ugly as a mook, dress sharp and compensate.

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 11:11:54 AMHaving "nerdy activities" comes for nothing into it, at all.

How funny! Those activities are precisely what I'm talking about and what the object of the poll is. So knock it off or open your own thread to discuss it there.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 09, 2011, 11:13:14 AM
You think being unattractive is a choice?  :huh:

Careful. You are inviting a "sediction community" manifesto.  :P

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 11:16:30 AM

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 09, 2011, 11:13:14 AM
You think being unattractive is a choice?  :huh:

Careful. You are inviting a "sediction community" manifesto.  :P

:rolleyes:

They way I learned it is simpler than any defintion. Nerds are those who are smart and capable in am academic enviroment but lack the social skills to be "cool". If you like nerdy things and you're not a true nerd (I.e. Have gotten laid), youre just a guy who likes [nerd thing].

That being said, I'm not a nerd, but I dabble in the arts of nerddom. Video games, fantasy books, etc. 

Quote from: Zeus on May 09, 2011, 11:17:53 AMThat being said, I'm not a nerd, but I dabble in the arts of nerddom. Video games, fantasy books, etc.

Going back to the gay paralel, that sounds like "I'm not homosexual, I only enjoy being fucked in the butt by other fellas".  :P

Quote from: Caliga on May 09, 2011, 10:49:01 AM

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 10:41:18 AM
I'm not sure that either of those can be considered proven.  Note that I'm not saying that being gay is a choice, just that simply because something isn't a choice doesn't mean you are necessarily born that way.

FWIW I've never met a gay person who didn't claim to be born gay.  I suppose it's possible that some or all of them are lying, but seems pretty unlikely as I'm not sure why one would choose an orientation that would bring them ridicule, discrimination, and in some cases physical harm. :hmm:

I didn't say that it was a choice--I merely was pointing out that there are other possibilities than either being born that way or chosing to be that way.

I'm somewhat inept socially, but I don't think that I consciously choose to be socially inept.  OTOH, I don't think that I was born that way, either. 

Its a choice?
I can't help what I'm interested in. I just find history fascinating and cars thoroughly meh (and heaven knows I've tried to get into cars).

Hi I am Ape and I am a 32 year old nerd.

I play P&P RPG at least once every month and have done so since I was eight years old, I paint tin figures and have two large glass cabinets full of them open to display in my apartment. I am the vice chairman for the Sverok district of lower Norrland (Sverok being an acrynom and translates to Swedens role- and conflict players). I do not hide my hobbies and I am not ashamed of them, if someone is mocking my hobbies or anyone that do them I tell them to go fuck themselves. I do not dress up as an elf, jedi or whatever.

My girlfriend supports me in my hobbies, though she does not play any P&P RPG she do play them on the computer (had to buy her an own copy of Dragon Age:Origins so I could have my computer to myself).

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:51:14 AM

So, I don't agree on "nerd" being a good thing or a positive attribute. So what?

Present me arguments on why being a nerd is a quality or a positive thing for an individual being so, and we'll debate.

They are free to pursue what interests them unhampered by social acceptance or the need to fit in?

I can see why this would be ostracism-worthy in the seduction community, but to those of a more intellectual bent it is clear why someone might choose this path.

Hmmm, it's not a simple question.

For some things, my nerdiness evaporated with time and now I laugh about my fondness for stupid shit, and can laugh about it with others, too;
for other things, my heart still misses a beat when I think of them, and not even my wife knows the depths of some of my nerdy obsessions.
It depends on the shifts in social acceptability of an obsession: in my circle of friends/acquaintances there's still people who see comics as a lower, almost ground-level form of brainless entertainment, the same can be said for science fiction and fantasy literature; when this people see the part of my library devoted to comic books, they raise an eyebrow: I don't even start a discussion about it  ;)

The only person I was ever truly honest about my nerdiness was my best friend, a guy that shared with me lots of my obsessions (Star Wars, D&D, LOTR, Magic: THe Gathering, obscure music, comics, computer games and many others), who I lost some years ago (not literally, I hope he's still alive!) and who I sorely miss.  :( :cry:

Ok, and now for some really tough confessions:

- I can recite all the dialogue of Young Frankenstein
- There was a time when I dreamt of having a son to teach him to play D&D with his friends
- I eagerly await the bi-yearly LEGO catalogue to see the upcoming Technic boxes
- In two boxes in the attic I still have all my old Magic cards; sorted by expansion, then colour, then mana cost, then rarity, then alphabetical order. And yes, when I closed the boxes I put several silica gel bags, to prevent the forming of mold on the cards  :blush:

L.

Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2011, 11:37:29 AM

It depends on the shifts in social acceptability of an obsession: in my circle of friends/acquaintances there's still people who see comics as a lower, almost ground-level form of brainless entertainment, the same can be said for science fiction and fantasy literature; when this people see the part of my library devoted to comic books, they raise an eyebrow: I don't even start a discussion about it  ;)

Yeah. See, I understand why people do this since most people aren't very open minded even if it's in vogue to claim you are, but I will never be able to accept it. Why the fuck should anyone frown on what kind of books I like reading? I think reading gossip magazines is fucking stupid, but if someone wants to do it I won't give them shit about it and I certainly won't think less of them for it.

I suppose I am out. I don't go around and tell everyone that I paint little military men but I happily talk about it if it comes up.

I'm semi-closeted, only close friends know the whole picture.

Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2011, 11:37:29 AM
- In two boxes in the attic I still have all my old Magic cards; sorted by expansion, then colour, then mana cost, then rarity, then alphabetical order. And yes, when I closed the boxes I put several silica gel bags, to prevent the forming of mold on the cards  :blush:

Dear God man!

Most people think I'm pretty "nerdy" but often they don't realize the full extent, as they only know me as a Film nerd, a D&D nerd, a Comic book nerd, or a music nerd, actally I'm all those things as well as a SF/fantasy nerd.... I'm nerdy about all the things I'm into.

Quote from: The Brain on May 09, 2011, 11:50:28 AM
I paint little military men

The hard part is getting them drunk enough, right?  ;)

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:14:49 AM
To me, there is nothing to be proud to be labeled a nerd, period. It's by definition derogatory; if you are labeled a nerd, you are doing something wrong and should get your shit together. Geek is just an attempt to put a positive spin to it to make it easier to live with, but they remain nerds by any other name.

I think your definition of the term is a bit behind the times.  Nerd isn't by definition derogatory in the society at large; books are aimed at "nerds," there are "nerd" websites, etc - none of this would be true if people were ashamed to self-identify as nerds.

Quote from: grumbler on May 09, 2011, 12:43:49 PM

Quote from: Drakken on May 09, 2011, 10:14:49 AM
To me, there is nothing to be proud to be labeled a nerd, period. It's by definition derogatory; if you are labeled a nerd, you are doing something wrong and should get your shit together. Geek is just an attempt to put a positive spin to it to make it easier to live with, but they remain nerds by any other name.

I think your definition of the term is a bit behind the times.  Nerd isn't by definition derogatory in the society at large; books are aimed at "nerds," there are "nerd" websites, etc - none of this would be true if people were ashamed to self-identify as nerds.

Not to the same extent as it used to be, but I think mostly the definition has shifted a bit in that you're no longer a nerd simply for having an interest in computers.

Quote from: grumbler on May 09, 2011, 12:43:49 PM
I think your definition of the term is a bit behind the times.  Nerd isn't by definition derogatory in the society at large; books are aimed at "nerds," there are "nerd" websites, etc - none of this would be true if people were ashamed to self-identify as nerds.

I'd see it like emo. Or goth back when I was a kid.
Its an insult for most people but actual emos/goths are happy to identify themselves as such.

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Not to the same extent as it used to be, but I think mostly the definition has shifted a bit in that you're no longer a nerd simply for having an interest in computers.

The problem here is that computer use is now ubiquitous among the kids. Being a nerd for liking computers and computer games is about as useful a label as being a nerd for liking movies - it is more remarkable if you don't.

Interesting question.

Now that I wear glasses full-time, I think most people are more likely to approach me with a default nerd assumption, or at least not be terribly surprised if I reveal my nerdish leanings to them.

That being said, my nerdish tendencies don't really fall into many of the stereotypical domains.  I love history (and humanities / social sciences generally), languages, strategy games, and sometimes read sci-fi and fantasy books.  But I don't play D&D, am not terribly interested in computers, don't read comics, etc.  So I am not sure where that places me in the nerd continuum.

How open am I about my nerdish tendencies?  The topic almost never comes up with most people I meet or am even friends with, and I don't go out of my way to mention that I recently read an Asimov book or something (mostly because virtually nobody gives a shit).  On the other hand, I wouldn't lie about it either.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 12:52:27 PM

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Not to the same extent as it used to be, but I think mostly the definition has shifted a bit in that you're no longer a nerd simply for having an interest in computers.

The problem here is that computer use is now ubiquitous among the kids. Being a nerd for liking computers and computer games is about as useful a label as being a nerd for liking movies - it is more remarkable if you don't.

Sure. But that's my point. It's not that being a nerd has suddenly become cool (even if to some extent it certainly has, as nerds have started being depicted as successful entrepreneurs and businessmen) it's that the definition of a nerd has changed.

I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

I don't disagree. As the nerd has become more common (or at least more visible) his persona has been given dimension in the narrative.

Still, the notion that nerdity is now fully accepted as just another quirk is plainly wrong. I still somtimes get negative-ish reactions when mentioning Fantasy books or PC gaming.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Not sure about that.  Certainly the nerd construct has the most potency in high schools.  But I definitely think it exists outside of it as well.  It does diminish over time, but I think people in their twenties are still very much aware of it.  Heck, many people in their 30's wouldn't hesititate to apply the "nerd" label to, say, someone who was 39, single and played video games all day.

And many depictions of "nerds" certainly exist in TV and movies, as well - by no means all of which are consumed solely by high school kids.

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 01:09:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

I don't disagree. As the nerd has become more common (or at least more visible) his persona has been given dimension in the narrative.

Still, the notion that nerdity is now fully accepted as just another quirk is plainly wrong. I still somtimes get negative-ish reactions when mentioning Fantasy books or PC gaming.

True say.  There is by no means is there complete acceptance.  But I think there is more leeway nowadays for having nerdish hobbies than there was at one time.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:22:12 PM

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 01:09:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

I don't disagree. As the nerd has become more common (or at least more visible) his persona has been given dimension in the narrative.

Still, the notion that nerdity is now fully accepted as just another quirk is plainly wrong. I still somtimes get negative-ish reactions when mentioning Fantasy books or PC gaming.

True say.  There is by no means is there complete acceptance.  But I think there is more leeway nowadays for having nerdish hobbies than there was at one time.

Definitely. In my experience, peers in my age group typically respond to my intense interest in gaming as something to chuckle about, but while not many of them share my intensity they understand the concept. Usually, however, when encountering the topic with people just a few years older the common response is " :huh: " or " :rolleyes: ".

I used to try to keep those things secret.  Since I don't interact with people these day, it doesn't really matter.

At the post office where I work does it seems that every male person between the age of 20 and 40 is a nerd in some way or another, movie nerds, gaming nerds computers nerds, you name it we got it...

So I have been out as a nerd for years, not that all know the level of my nerddom (playing a WW1 board game, with 4000 counters is properly a bit to much for most people to stomach)... 

My take on it is that a lot of the "nerdy" activities I engaged in as a kid are now seen as being much more socially acceptable - for kids.

I'm slightly embarassed to say that I play computer games, not because they're geeky, but because they are "childish".

I don't really see an interest in history as being particularily geeky though.  I'll certainly admit that I spend a big chunk of my vacations going to museums and battlefields, and have a nice little history library at home.

Do I talk about it?  Not really.  Much like sexuality - it rarely comes up in casual conversation.  If someone else starts talking about, I dunno, WoW, I'll admit that I play, but that's about it.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:16:57 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Not sure about that.  Certainly the nerd construct has the most potency in high schools.  But I definitely think it exists outside of it as well.  It does diminish over time, but I think people in their twenties are still very much aware of it.  Heck, many people in their 30's wouldn't hesititate to apply the "nerd" label to, say, someone who was 39, single and played video games all day.

And many depictions of "nerds" certainly exist in TV and movies, as well - by no means all of which are consumed solely by high school kids.

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Certainly, there are plenty of depictions of the nerd stereotype in movies and the like - but then, even people who have been out of high school for years will still have a nostalgic attachment to its tropes. In real life, concern over your interests tends to be muted compared with concern about what you do for a living and whether your spouse is attractive or whether you have kids or not ... the guy who does nothing but live in his mom's basement and play computer games isn't remarkable because of his interests, but because of his low social status - the fact he lacks such things as a job, spouse or family. Same as the guy who does nothing but smoke pot all day (sometimes the same guy, of course).

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:50:58 PM

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Geeze Malthus, pretty harsh on Seedy.

Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2011, 01:57:05 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:50:58 PM

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Geeze Malthus, pretty harsh on Seedy.

Hey, he has a fancy car and several hookers moldering in his basement. He's doing okay.  ;)

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:50:58 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:16:57 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Not sure about that.  Certainly the nerd construct has the most potency in high schools.  But I definitely think it exists outside of it as well.  It does diminish over time, but I think people in their twenties are still very much aware of it.  Heck, many people in their 30's wouldn't hesititate to apply the "nerd" label to, say, someone who was 39, single and played video games all day.

And many depictions of "nerds" certainly exist in TV and movies, as well - by no means all of which are consumed solely by high school kids.

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Certainly, there are plenty of depictions of the nerd stereotype in movies and the like - but then, even people who have been out of high school for years will still have a nostalgic attachment to its tropes. In real life, concern over your interests tends to be muted compared with concern about what you do for a living and whether your spouse is attractive or whether you have kids or not ... the guy who does nothing but live in his mom's basement and play computer games isn't remarkable because of his interests, but because of his low social status - the fact he lacks such things as a job, spouse or family. Same as the guy who does nothing but smoke pot all day (sometimes the same guy, of course).

But then, if the stereotype has little relevance outside high school, why do people well out of high school use the "nerd" label at all?  Why not simply say "failure" or something?  People in this very thread are talking quite readily about it as it applies to themselves and others in daily life.  Nobody would say our hypothetical 39 year old failure had "cooties" (another school age construct that really does have zero relevance in the adult world), but I bet there would be many who would call him a nerd.  It's because the "nerd' construct does in fact continue to have relevance.

Mind you, I don't disagree that the "nerd" label and its associated stereotypes do lose some of that relevance over time.   However, I know from first-hand observation that the peers of a gauche, computer-obsessed guy in his late twenties (even if he has a decent job) wouldn't find it odd or immature to call him "a nerd", "so nerdy", "a bit of a nerd" etc.  And I don't think that's just out of a nostalgic yearning to be back in high school.

Now, I wonder if this is, in fact, something of a nerdy discussion...   ;)

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 12:41:01 PM

Quote from: The Brain on May 09, 2011, 11:50:28 AM
I paint little military men

The hard part is getting them drunk enough, right?  ;)

Oh they come willingly.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 02:06:07 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:50:58 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:16:57 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Not sure about that.  Certainly the nerd construct has the most potency in high schools.  But I definitely think it exists outside of it as well.  It does diminish over time, but I think people in their twenties are still very much aware of it.  Heck, many people in their 30's wouldn't hesititate to apply the "nerd" label to, say, someone who was 39, single and played video games all day.

And many depictions of "nerds" certainly exist in TV and movies, as well - by no means all of which are consumed solely by high school kids.

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Certainly, there are plenty of depictions of the nerd stereotype in movies and the like - but then, even people who have been out of high school for years will still have a nostalgic attachment to its tropes. In real life, concern over your interests tends to be muted compared with concern about what you do for a living and whether your spouse is attractive or whether you have kids or not ... the guy who does nothing but live in his mom's basement and play computer games isn't remarkable because of his interests, but because of his low social status - the fact he lacks such things as a job, spouse or family. Same as the guy who does nothing but smoke pot all day (sometimes the same guy, of course).

But then, if the stereotype has little relevance outside high school, why do people well out of high school use the "nerd" label at all?  Why not simply say "failure" or something?  People in this very thread are talking quite readily about it as it applies to themselves and others in daily life.  Nobody would say our hypothetical 39 year old failure had "cooties" (another school age construct that really does have zero relevance in the adult world), but I bet there would be many who would call him a nerd.  It's because the "nerd' construct does in fact continue to have relevance.

Mind you, I don't disagree that the "nerd" label and its associated stereotypes do lose some of that relevance over time.   However, I know from first-hand observation that the peers of a gauche, computer-obsessed guy in his late twenties (even if he has a decent job) wouldn't find it odd or immature to call him "a nerd", "so nerdy", "a bit of a nerd" etc.  And I don't think that's just out of a nostalgic yearning to be back in high school.

Now, I wonder if this is, in fact, something of a nerdy discussion...   ;)

I agree - people still discuss the stereotype outside of high school, because it is useful: it describes a whole wide range of interests.

What I'm saying is that the stigma associated with being interested in those interests decreases radically over time - because the actual markers of social status become wholly different. Who cares if you collect minature figurines or whatever as an adult, if you have a good job and an enviable personal life?

That's why you have the strange phenom of people describing themselves as "sorta nerdy" in their interests. It is because it usefully invokes a stereotype everyone is familiar with, but really isn't significantly self-depreciating for people who are not high school kids. Bill Gates is "sorta nerdy". No-one is thinking of dunking his head in a toilet for laffs (well, no-one aside from those who bought the previous version of Windows  ;) )

I agree with what Malthus says there.
To be a bit of a geek at school is totally social suicide. A bit of geekyness in adult life though is rather chic. If you've a good job any degree of nerdyness can get a pass.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 02:14:50 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 02:06:07 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:50:58 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:16:57 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
I dunno.  The depiction of a socially inept, stereotypical, one-dimensional "nerd" seems a lot less common than it did, say, 20 years ago.

Would a movie like Revenge of the Nerds be made today?  It seems unlikely. 

From anecdotal observations, it seems "nerds" in today's media would more likely be depcited as sympathetic figures, and "cool-in-their-own-way."

The whole notion of "nerd-dom" is mostly a creation of the culture of high-school kids. It has little relevance to the adult world, as adults tend to measure and be measured by social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth.

In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Not sure about that.  Certainly the nerd construct has the most potency in high schools.  But I definitely think it exists outside of it as well.  It does diminish over time, but I think people in their twenties are still very much aware of it.  Heck, many people in their 30's wouldn't hesititate to apply the "nerd" label to, say, someone who was 39, single and played video games all day.

And many depictions of "nerds" certainly exist in TV and movies, as well - by no means all of which are consumed solely by high school kids.

Well, yeah, but a 39 year old who is single and does nothing but play computer games is likely to rank low in terms of "...social status, marital and family situation, and comparative wealth".

Certainly, there are plenty of depictions of the nerd stereotype in movies and the like - but then, even people who have been out of high school for years will still have a nostalgic attachment to its tropes. In real life, concern over your interests tends to be muted compared with concern about what you do for a living and whether your spouse is attractive or whether you have kids or not ... the guy who does nothing but live in his mom's basement and play computer games isn't remarkable because of his interests, but because of his low social status - the fact he lacks such things as a job, spouse or family. Same as the guy who does nothing but smoke pot all day (sometimes the same guy, of course).

But then, if the stereotype has little relevance outside high school, why do people well out of high school use the "nerd" label at all?  Why not simply say "failure" or something?  People in this very thread are talking quite readily about it as it applies to themselves and others in daily life.  Nobody would say our hypothetical 39 year old failure had "cooties" (another school age construct that really does have zero relevance in the adult world), but I bet there would be many who would call him a nerd.  It's because the "nerd' construct does in fact continue to have relevance.

Mind you, I don't disagree that the "nerd" label and its associated stereotypes do lose some of that relevance over time.   However, I know from first-hand observation that the peers of a gauche, computer-obsessed guy in his late twenties (even if he has a decent job) wouldn't find it odd or immature to call him "a nerd", "so nerdy", "a bit of a nerd" etc.  And I don't think that's just out of a nostalgic yearning to be back in high school.

Now, I wonder if this is, in fact, something of a nerdy discussion...   ;)

I agree - people still discuss the stereotype outside of high school, because it is useful: it describes a whole wide range of interests.

What I'm saying is that the stigma associated with being interested in those interests decreases radically over time - because the actual markers of social status become wholly different. Who cares if you collect minature figurines or whatever as an adult, if you have a good job and an enviable personal life?

That's why you have the strange phenom of people describing themselves as "sorta nerdy" in their interests. It is because it usefully invokes a stereotype everyone is familiar with, but really isn't significantly self-depreciating for people who are not high school kids. Bill Gates is "sorta nerdy". No-one is thinking of dunking his head in a toilet for laffs (well, no-one aside from those who bought the previous version of Windows  ;) )

Isn't that the point of this thread - some people not wanting to admit our most nerdy hobbies and past-times to our friends and colleagues?  I agree that that stigma does decrease as one gets older (however it is still present).  Of course living in a mansion and sleeping with beautiful people will justify almost every ineptitude. 

As per my previous posts, I'd also posit that the stigma of having nerdy hobbies is less than it once was even within the younger generations.

I'm out (nerd/geek/whatever) but not flamboyant about it. BTW, for me a nerd has little to no social skills, a geek does. That's just my take on it.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 01:08:56 PM
In order to know whether there is such a creature as a "nerd", you'd have to know whether this concept still exists among high-school kids. Which I don't, not knowing any.

Yes, but it has become more of a general thing;  music nerds, science nerds, literary nerds, robotics nerds, etc.  It really means someone who is better at social interactions when engaged on the topic of interest than on general topics.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 09, 2011, 02:22:37 PM
Isn't that the point of this thread - some people not wanting to admit our most nerdy hobbies and past-times to our friends and colleagues?  I agree that that stigma does decrease as one gets older (however it is still present).  Of course living in a mansion and sleeping with beautiful people will justify almost every ineptitude. 

As per my previous posts, I'd also posit that the stigma of having nerdy hobbies is less than it once was even within the younger generations.

Well, yes, but one would predict that the majority of adults will be "out" about it/don't really care.

A contrasting phenominon is being a "druggie". In high school, that was tres cool. Chicks dug you, if you had good connections; it improved your coolness factor and social status. 

As an adult, it works more the other way - if you do illegal drugs, you keep it to yourself, only mentioning it to like-minded enthusiasts. The stereotype of the adult druggie is not a complementary one. It decreases your status.

Quote from: lustindarkness on May 09, 2011, 02:28:09 PM
I'm out (nerd/geek/whatever) but not flamboyant about it. BTW, for me a nerd has little to no social skills, a geek does. That's just my take on it.

Yeah, agree.  Also, to me, a geek is usually someone who is smart.  A nerd isn't necessarily smart (unless a nerd is also a geek).  I've known a few dumb nerds, actually.

 :hmm:  I've never felt much identification with the nerd concept.  I think people have tended to view me more as a weirdo than a nerd.  I've got the obsessional focus on non-mainstream topics part, and mixed social skills, but none of the classic nerd pastimes/interests (never had any interest in e.g. board games, card games, roleplaying, Star anything, fantasy, sci-fi, or even computer games beyond EUII and SimCity).  But also no mainstream pastimes/interests to compensate (never had any real interest in e.g. playing sports, watching sports, cars, popular TV and movies, popular music, video games, gambling).  Oh except drinking, that's been crucial.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 03:01:54 PM
A contrasting phenominon is being a "druggie". In high school, that was tres cool. Chicks dug you, if you had good connections; it improved your coolness factor and social status. 

As an adult, it works more the other way - if you do illegal drugs, you keep it to yourself, only mentioning it to like-minded enthusiasts. The stereotype of the adult druggie is not a complementary one. It decreases your status.

Yeah, the druggie thing is definitely true.  I've personally always looked down on them as I watched some of my close friends from middle school drop out in HS to smoke pot and subsequently become losers later in life.  They are a somewhat extreme case, but they certainly didn't have any trouble getting laid at the time.  Now as we get close to 30 and the lives of two of them still revolve around pot, they're no longer quite the catch they once were.   ;)

Quote from: HVC on May 09, 2011, 10:27:23 AM

Quote from: Ed Anger on May 09, 2011, 10:11:43 AM
I have noticed my tolerance declining rapidly as I get older.

You're becoming less tolerant? Jesus. when you gonna start sending letter bombs? :D

Never.  :lol:

I just can't stand people that won't grow the hell up.

I work in IT support - about the nerdiest group possible in government.  But no, I won't admit my nerdiness.  First, I am one of the very few who is not an IT person.  I'm supposed to be the "normal" guy.  Secondly, my nerd ways are totally different from theirs.  They are into the latest electronics, buying ipad2 before it is officially sold in HK, and above all, English Premiership football.  I am into computer games. 

In school and university, it was very normal for me to openly talk about games, and almost every male I knew would respond somewhat positively.  I made the mistake of assuming the same when I first joined government.  I mentioned it once or twice, and all I got were frowns, silence and disbelief. 

Another thing I have learned is that the world is actually very small, and words travel fast.  Especially my HR.  I've been confronted by them on more than one occasion about my...odd ways.  I don't need to give them more ammunition. 

Quote from: Monoriu on May 09, 2011, 04:09:23 PM
In school and university, it was very normal for me to openly talk about games, and almost every male I knew would respond somewhat positively.  I made the mistake of assuming the same when I first joined government.  I mentioned it once or twice, and all I got were frowns, silence and disbelief. 

Hmmmmm :hmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrKeEEBgcxk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrKeEEBgcxk)

I'm mostly in the closet except with close friends because I see no reason trying to explain my extra-curricular activities to those who don't understand and/or care about them. I know a Geek when I see one, and to those people I may open up a bit more. Otherwise, I talk only about my more mundane areas of interest, or I don't discuss my hobbies at all.

This includes my family, by the way. I've been known as the "nerd" of the family since I was very young, and I learned then not to bother trying to talk about my hobbies to anyone I'm related to. (Their definition of nerd, by the way, was "one who reads a lot". I'm rather proud of that demarcation now, but it's still not something I trumpet at work or to acquaintances.)

Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2011, 05:35:14 PM
I'm mostly in the closet except with close friends because I see no reason trying to explain my extra-curricular activities to those who don't understand and/or care about them. I know a Geek when I see one, and to those people I may open up a bit more. Otherwise, I talk only about my more mundane areas of interest, or I don't discuss my hobbies at all.

This includes my family, by the way. I've been known as the "nerd" of the family since I was very young, and I learned then not to bother trying to talk about my hobbies to anyone I'm related to. (Their definition of nerd, by the way, was "one who reads a lot". I'm rather proud of that demarcation now, but it's still not something I trumpet at work or to acquaintances.)

When I was fired 9 years ago from the job I had held for 14 years, the reason my employer gave was that I didn't relate well enough with my co-workers.  I had actually been warned about that several times, and at one point I was told that I shouldn't allow my co-workers to see me reading a newspaper, because most of them didn't, and it made it harder for them to relate to me.

That would make me stabby.

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:24:09 PM

Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2011, 05:35:14 PM
I'm mostly in the closet except with close friends because I see no reason trying to explain my extra-curricular activities to those who don't understand and/or care about them. I know a Geek when I see one, and to those people I may open up a bit more. Otherwise, I talk only about my more mundane areas of interest, or I don't discuss my hobbies at all.

This includes my family, by the way. I've been known as the "nerd" of the family since I was very young, and I learned then not to bother trying to talk about my hobbies to anyone I'm related to. (Their definition of nerd, by the way, was "one who reads a lot". I'm rather proud of that demarcation now, but it's still not something I trumpet at work or to acquaintances.)

When I was fired 9 years ago from the job I had held for 14 years, the reason my employer gave was that I didn't relate well enough with my co-workers.  I had actually been warned about that several times, and at one point I was told that I shouldn't allow my co-workers to see me reading a newspaper, because most of them didn't, and it made it harder for them to relate to me.

WTF?  It sounds like you couldn't relate to them, or at least the people who fired you, because you weren't a dumbass.  Unless there was more to this than that, like for whatever reason nobody in your department liked working with you, and they just sugarcoated it.

West. Virginia.

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:24:09 PM
When I was fired 9 years ago from the job I had held for 14 years, the reason my employer gave was that I didn't relate well enough with my co-workers.  I had actually been warned about that several times, and at one point I was told that I shouldn't allow my co-workers to see me reading a newspaper, because most of them didn't, and it made it harder for them to relate to me.

I have considered not putting my college degree on my resume for this very reason. It marks me out as "different" in the secretarial pool, and has come up several times in discussions about how I'm not fitting in well in my current job. I sure as hell never mention that I'm taking graduate classes, nor do I show the books I'm reading (right now, it's a re-reading of Pride and Prejudice because Riley is reading it).

When you're working a relatively menial job, one does not trumpet one's educational accomplishments.  :sleep:

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 06:46:07 PM

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:24:09 PM

Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2011, 05:35:14 PM
I'm mostly in the closet except with close friends because I see no reason trying to explain my extra-curricular activities to those who don't understand and/or care about them. I know a Geek when I see one, and to those people I may open up a bit more. Otherwise, I talk only about my more mundane areas of interest, or I don't discuss my hobbies at all.

This includes my family, by the way. I've been known as the "nerd" of the family since I was very young, and I learned then not to bother trying to talk about my hobbies to anyone I'm related to. (Their definition of nerd, by the way, was "one who reads a lot". I'm rather proud of that demarcation now, but it's still not something I trumpet at work or to acquaintances.)

When I was fired 9 years ago from the job I had held for 14 years, the reason my employer gave was that I didn't relate well enough with my co-workers.  I had actually been warned about that several times, and at one point I was told that I shouldn't allow my co-workers to see me reading a newspaper, because most of them didn't, and it made it harder for them to relate to me.

WTF?  It sounds like you couldn't relate to them, or at least the people who fired you, because you weren't a dumbass.  Unless there was more to this than that, like for whatever reason nobody in your department liked working with you, and they just sugarcoated it.

I think it was more my employer being out of touch than anything.  I think he really thought than none of my co-workers were, for lack of a better way to put it, sharp enough to care about following the news, and that reading the paper would set me apart.  In point of fact, most of my co-workers liked that I read the paper, 'cause I would leave it in the breakroom after I finished with it, so they could read it without having to pay for it.

Quote from: DGuller on May 09, 2011, 10:49:30 AM
Am I the only one getting a feeling that whenever Drakken goes uber-macho on us, he's seriously over-compensating for something?

No.

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:46:02 AM

Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2011, 11:37:29 AM

It depends on the shifts in social acceptability of an obsession: in my circle of friends/acquaintances there's still people who see comics as a lower, almost ground-level form of brainless entertainment, the same can be said for science fiction and fantasy literature; when this people see the part of my library devoted to comic books, they raise an eyebrow: I don't even start a discussion about it  ;)

Yeah. See, I understand why people do this since most people aren't very open minded even if it's in vogue to claim you are, but I will never be able to accept it.

:yeahright:

To answer the poll question, I guess I'm not out per se.
I mean my friends know that I dabble in comics, play video/computer games, but the people I work with change often (a lot of out of state people for shoots, with just a few other locals I see from job to job) it doesn't often come up too much. Though have become good friends with some be ause of shared interest in comics and sci fi.

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:05:49 AM
Meh, I am what I am. I don't hide anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8C43r4zm0

I am what I am, I am my own special creation

Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2011, 10:13:16 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:05:49 AM
Meh, I am what I am. I don't hide anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8C43r4zm0

I am what I am, I am my own special creation

My personal fave rendition, in glorious Hi-NRG:
http://youtu.be/Az6Wx-CDXiM

Life's not worth a damn,
Until you can say: hey, world, I am,
What I am!


:bowler:

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 09, 2011, 09:21:20 PM

Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:46:02 AM

Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2011, 11:37:29 AM

It depends on the shifts in social acceptability of an obsession: in my circle of friends/acquaintances there's still people who see comics as a lower, almost ground-level form of brainless entertainment, the same can be said for science fiction and fantasy literature; when this people see the part of my library devoted to comic books, they raise an eyebrow: I don't even start a discussion about it  ;)

Yeah. See, I understand why people do this since most people aren't very open minded even if it's in vogue to claim you are, but I will never be able to accept it.

:yeahright:

See? You're not very open minded.  :hug:

Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:24:09 PM
When I was fired 9 years ago from the job I had held for 14 years, the reason my employer gave was that I didn't relate well enough with my co-workers.  I had actually been warned about that several times, and at one point I was told that I shouldn't allow my co-workers to see me reading a newspaper, because most of them didn't, and it made it harder for them to relate to me.

That smells like bullshit to me.  That's the type of thing you say as a substitute for "I just don't like you, and I'm the kind of douchebag boss who only promotes and retains people I like because I'm a loser and have no friends outside of work and therefore need to surround myself with my 'friends' at work so I feel less pathetic."  :)

Quote from: Caliga on May 10, 2011, 07:11:09 AM
That smells like bullshit to me.  That's the type of thing you say as a substitute for "I just don't like you, and I'm the kind of douchebag boss who only promotes and retains people I like because I'm a loser and have no friends outside of work and therefore need to surround myself with my 'friends' at work so I feel less pathetic."  :)

You've met my boss?? :w00t:

:D

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 10, 2011, 12:06:19 AM

Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2011, 10:13:16 PM

Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 10:05:49 AM
Meh, I am what I am. I don't hide anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8C43r4zm0

I am what I am, I am my own special creation

My personal fave rendition, in glorious Hi-NRG:
http://youtu.be/Az6Wx-CDXiM

Life's not worth a damn,
Until you can say: hey, world, I am,
What I am!


:bowler:

:lol: