So I thought I give you a quick rundown on the parties, so you can understand sunday news better.
MSZP: they are the governing socialist. Has been so for 8 years. During that 8 years, they have managed to completely destroy themselves with blatant corruption and incompetence. Their rank and file as well as their leadership is choke full of ex communist functionaries (the party itself is the legal heir of MSZMP, the one and only party of the commie years).
They only had one reformer during these 8 years, Ferenc Gyurcsány, and even his own party failed to support him. For this election, they promise tax cuts while maintaining the welfare system, and eradication of corruption, a New Way of doing things.
Fidesz: the biggest opposition party, they will win by a landslide the only open question is wether they will achive a 75% majority or not. They are a sort of right-ish populist party which needed Easter Europe to surface (anti-communist ideologies, loud refusal of "socialism" while praising state ownership and in general big state involvement in people's life). Their earlier strategy included laying down to the far-right, but that skeleton is so out of the closet in a form of a separate party, that they have started spitting on them. Too late. They gave birth to an organized nazi movement which will eventually ruin them, Horthy-style. For this election, they promise tax cuts while maintaining the welfare system, and eradication of corruption, a New Way of doing things.
Jobbik: the nazi party with his own milita-like (unarmed) organization to boot. Anti-jew, anti-gay, anti-gypsy, anti-rest-of-the-world, anti-corporation, populist scum assholes I could not despise more. They will probably become 2nd largest party after Fidesz, due to the general public being fed up with the politics of the others and not caring much for the anti-semite rhetoric. (30s style) the "gypsy issue" is a big selling point of theirs because the fucked welfare system fuels cultural clashes and all the other parties have been acting like this issue does not exist, while it does define the everyday life of the poorest rural parts of the country. For this election, they promise tax cuts while maintaining the welfare system, and eradication of corruption, a New Way of doing things.
LMP: their name means "politics can be different" a ragtag band of far-left and darkgreen intellectuals, the only thing differentiating them from Jobbik is the lack of nazi remarks. the only reason they have a chance of getting into parlaiment is their name. For this election, they promise tax cuts while maintaining the welfare system, and eradication of corruption, a New Way of doing things.
MDF: once, this was THE conservative party. While Fidesz grew rapidly to overcome their market, the two parts of the party fought bitterly inside. One half was the nationalistic bigots, they ended up first in Fidesz, then many of them in Jobbik. the other smaller half won because they had no other party to go to. They seemed to be a more progressive bunch, going for economic conservatism (in the proper sense ie. they want less state control in things).
As a culmination of that, during the last EU elections they backed Lajos Bokros, who is my national laisez faire hero, a renowned expert of the IMF. Altough they did manage to get him into the EU Parlaiment, Bokros was a demonized figure in the 90s because he was Socialist Finance Minister when he did a major cut in welfare to avoid bankrupcy. The support of such a guy caused a major rift in the party which threatened to destroy them. To strengthen themselves, the battered leadership made an alliance with the otherwise completely destroyed liberals. that caused even more infighting (if possible) and even the senior liberal politicans opposed the deal, so the only reason this party still exists is Bokros.
For this election, they promise the implementation of Bokros' detailed economic plans he has been publishing and pushing for years now. It calls for a more "neoliberal" state.
I would vote MDF but I think all is left of them is opportunistic fuckers who in the long run would make more harm to liberals than good. I will just cross over the ballot and thus hand in an incorrect vote. Fuck this lot.
Hungary can not into space. :(
We're just waiting for Hungary to become a dictatorship again in order to invade it. It's been like 90 years since our last conquest :D
That being said, Jobbik is eons better than our own nationalist parties, most of which stink of latent communism and moronic leaders. They have some unfortunate messages (well, only the anti-jew annoys me, the other ones, including anti-romanian, are quite refreshing) but as a whole the movement is serious business. I hope it steals as many votes as possible from Fidesz.
I will play Brahms today in celebration of Gypsyocracy.
QuoteFor this election, they promise tax cuts while maintaining the welfare system, and eradication of corruption, a New Way of doing things.
That all sounds awfully familiar... :(
Today's scandal is a leaked audio recording (leaked on kurucinfo.net the major hungarian nazi newsite of our times) of a leading Fidesz official, from an internal meeting where he proudly explains how they have built a computerized database of basically every voter-age citizen of the city of Pécs (cultural capital of the EU, 2010, btw). No, not just their voters, everyone. They have been keeping records of who showed dislike of them etc. And he outlines how there is/should be (can't recall) work to be done to make this into a country-wide centralized network of local databases.
Now, beside this being creepy, it is strengthened by two facts: first, when Fidesz ruled (1998-2002) there was heavy handling of any public figure going strongly against them. Tax authority harassment, plebs frenzied against them, you name it. So the party certainly has its history. And to think this very party, this very leadership was the liberal youth in 89 :(
Secondly, there is nothing of value known about what Fidesz plans to do. Their leader, Orbán, speaks some sense when in front of international diplomats/journalists or economic people, for example serious cut-back on the insanely huge public administration (for which they would need 75%). But also they spout out the most blatan populist bullshit so if you listen to these you end up with the picture of a party which wants to seriously cut back government income while seriously raising government spending and control...
Which party is promising to reduce tariffs on beet fertilizer?
I'll probably vote Fidesz, though MDF would seem a good choice if they didn't seem so marginalized.
So, where can I register to vote! ;)
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
Cool, Fahdiz created his own political party in Hungary. So that's what happened to him.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
:lmfao: I'd have a hard time choosing what hungarian town I'd govern after the conquest of Hungary. I'd have to take over that Fidesz database, find Tamas' hometown and fill it with gipsies... :nelson:
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 08, 2010, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
:lmfao: I'd have a hard time choosing what hungarian town I'd govern after the conquest of Hungary. I'd have to take over that Fidesz database, find Tamas' hometown and fill it with gipsies... :nelson:
In a Hungary-Romania war you could kiss your Transylvanian hinterland good bye as the hungarians and especially the szekelys would turn into guerrilas. :contract: not to mention the dubious morale of your hungarian conscripts.
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 11:17:28 AM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 08, 2010, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
:lmfao: I'd have a hard time choosing what hungarian town I'd govern after the conquest of Hungary. I'd have to take over that Fidesz database, find Tamas' hometown and fill it with gipsies... :nelson:
In a Hungary-Romania war you could kiss your Transylvanian hinterland good bye as the hungarians and especially the szekelys would turn into guerrilas. :contract: not to mention the dubious morale of your hungarian conscripts.
Actually in such a war I'd be on nobody's side... just form a group that would try and create an independent political formation in the Carpathians... besides, I've lived all my life among szekelys, they are good guys and would enjoy independence more than the dictatorship of Romania/Hungary...
Oh by the way, the funny thing about kurucinfo.net, the nazi webpage being outraged over the Big Brotherish data-handling of Fidesz is that the modus operandi for them has been to publish photo, name, address, phone number of any "enemies of the people". Like the attorneys who represent the state against lunatic nazis and such.
Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria...can't tell 'em apart, they're all in the Axis Minors force pool to me.
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 11:17:28 AM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 08, 2010, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
:lmfao: I'd have a hard time choosing what hungarian town I'd govern after the conquest of Hungary. I'd have to take over that Fidesz database, find Tamas' hometown and fill it with gipsies... :nelson:
In a Hungary-Romania war you could kiss your Transylvanian hinterland good bye as the hungarians and especially the szekelys would turn into guerrilas. :contract: not to mention the dubious morale of your hungarian conscripts.
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 11:17:28 AM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 08, 2010, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
I'd vote for the party that wants to invade Romania. And supports beet subsides.
:lmfao: I'd have a hard time choosing what hungarian town I'd govern after the conquest of Hungary. I'd have to take over that Fidesz database, find Tamas' hometown and fill it with gipsies... :nelson:
In a Hungary-Romania war you could kiss your Transylvanian hinterland good bye as the hungarians and especially the szekelys would turn into guerrilas. :contract: not to mention the dubious morale of your hungarian conscripts.
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
Yes because we weren't that big on fighting for the ruskies, unlike the slavs.
No libertarian party for you to vote for?
Quote from: Zanza on April 09, 2010, 12:37:42 AM
No libertarian party for you to vote for?
No :(
I have changed my mind by the way. Due to the rules, the less number of total votes cast accross the board, the better it is for the small parties. And since the smaller parties getting in are the far-left and the far-right, I have decided to cast my vote on MDF. Sure, the one man worth a dime there is Bokros, but he is totally awesome, and the only one keeping the paty alive so his influence should reign over the party's policy.
Are there any parties in Hungary that do not sound like a nightmare?
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:36:05 AM
Are there any parties in Hungary that do not sound like a nightmare?
at the moment, no, not really.
Altough I am voting for MDF I am not sure I want them to reach Parlaiment. I think a decisive question of the next 4 years is: will a "neoliberal" party rise out of the ashes?
Altough, here is how I see it: if Fidesz get's 75% majority, they MIGHT reform the country, and the'll MIGHT do it fast enough to see some positive effects before their 4 years run out. In that case, they can win again and keep Jobbik down.
If Fidesz fails or does not even start the reforms, the country will just loiter around knee-deep in shit and people will get disillusioned in Fidesz. And as things stand, they will probably flock to Jobbik.
If Fidesz gets a simple majority, well, I can't see things getting much better then. MSZP and Jobbik will have no reason to support meaningful reforms, because it is much easier to scoop up votes by just opposing anything the government does. Fidesz showed this all too well for them. In which case of course the country will be just loitering around knee-deep in shit despite any efforts from the government. Which will make people disillusioned in Fidesz, and they will probably flock to Jobbik.
Neoliberalism. :bleeding:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
I thought that dubious distinction belonged to the Czechs...
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:59:06 AM
Neoliberalism. :bleeding:
Well screw you. I meant something different than the classical socio-liberalism of Europe which will NOT change this country. They were on government together with the socialists for 8 years and all they managed was destroy themselves because they failed to be in being different from the socialists in any meaningful way.
And as I said, the only currently non-socialist party right now is MDF, so the last thing we need is yet another iteration of the economic left, pro-gay marriage or not.
I am sick and tired of this leftie lack of cojones. And the "right" is the exact same except for being able to mask their cowardice and incompetence by xenophobic remarks and parading nationalistic stuff around. The situation was perfect in 1990 to apply a shock therapy since it was a shock economically for most of the population, but the leaders have been stalling issues ever since.
Quote from: Alatriste on April 09, 2010, 02:01:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
I thought that dubious distinction belonged to the Czechs...
Nah, the Hungarians completely defunded their military and were hopelessly backwards even by Eastern European standards. The Czechs belonged to the northern part of the non-soviet Warsaw Pact which was considered better. Romania seemed to be the one that was the most likely not to fight.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2010, 03:59:03 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on April 09, 2010, 02:01:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
I thought that dubious distinction belonged to the Czechs...
Nah, the Hungarians completely defunded their military and were hopelessly backwards even by Eastern European standards. The Czechs belonged to the northern part of the non-soviet Warsaw Pact which was considered better. Romania seemed to be the one that was the most likely not to fight.
Fact is the smallest war would ruin us both... so why do it? Besides, it's better to write songs about each other's faults than actually killing yourself in a stupid conflict...
Quote from: Alatriste on April 09, 2010, 02:01:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
During the Cold war Hungary's military was consider the least threatening of all Warsaw Pact nations.
I thought that dubious distinction belonged to the Czechs...
Bulgarians.
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 04:42:54 AM
loud refusal of "socialism" while praising state ownership
Hehe sound like politicians alright.
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 11:49:44 PM
Yes because we weren't that big on fighting for the ruskies, unlike the slavs.
I went to a Hungarian history museum when I was in Budapest.
The main message I got was the Hungarians hate Russians...alot...
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:59:06 AM
Neoliberalism. :bleeding:
<_<
You have gone all left wing nutso on us haven't you?
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2010, 11:49:44 PM
Yes because we weren't that big on fighting for the ruskies, unlike the slavs.
I went to a Hungarian history museum when I was in Budapest.
The main message I got was the Hungarians hate Russians...alot...
"Terror Háza"? "House of terror"? Thats mostly dedicated to the victims of communism and to a lesser degree to victims of nazism. It was a sort of pilgrimage place for the radical right when their movement was in its infacy and they were heavily supported by Fidesz.
Which reminds me one of the key similarities between our times and the 30s: Fidesz turned to the far right to gain a solid core following to back their supposedly moderate policy, being confident of being able to control them. This was a key aspect of the early phase of Horthy's rule. He, -and the intellectuals around him most certainly- were not nazis or far right, but with the various social problems (magnified by the great depression) they needed the ever-growing far-right's support, so Horthy bended over for them. When the time came to break with them once and for all, in '44, he had to find that hey had infected all levels of leadership, so his bail from the war was probably the most pathetic attempt of statemanship during the entire conflict (basically he declared in radio that we are immediately out of the fighting [Romania style], but the overwhelming majority of the officers just ignored him, stalling the whole thing long enough for the germans to act and install the nazi government)
Fidesz is already at the point where its lovechild with the radical lunatics has grown to a dangerous size and is swooping up many voters. (this would be Jobbik of course).
Quote from: Tamas on April 09, 2010, 10:27:40 AM
"Terror Háza"? "House of terror"? Thats mostly dedicated to the victims of communism and to a lesser degree to victims of nazism. It was a sort of pilgrimage place for the radical right when their movement was in its infacy and they were heavily supported by Fidesz.
No no it was the big Hungarian history museum with all of Hungarian history in there. Government thing...but the bitterness just oozed out whenever the Russians would come in and break shit like in 1849 and after WWII. I mean they TRIED to be all objective about it of course.
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2010, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:59:06 AM
Neoliberalism. :bleeding:
<_<
You have gone all left wing nutso on us haven't you?
I'm a proud social-democrat. That's hardly "left wing nutso".
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 11:05:41 AM
I'm a proud social-democrat. That's hardly "left wing nutso".
:bleeding:
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 11:05:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2010, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:59:06 AM
Neoliberalism. :bleeding:
<_<
You have gone all left wing nutso on us haven't you?
I'm a proud social-democrat. That's hardly "left wing nutso".
:bleeding:
Quote from: Tamas on April 09, 2010, 10:27:40 AM
"Terror Háza"? "House of terror"? Thats mostly dedicated to the victims of communism and to a lesser degree to victims of nazism. It was a sort of pilgrimage place for the radical right when their movement was in its infacy and they were heavily supported by Fidesz.
That was an... interesting place. :huh:
Sounds hot.
Jobbik should make some noise about the lost crownlands of St. Stephen.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 09, 2010, 01:26:40 PM
Jobbik should make some noise about the lost crownlands of St. Stephen.
:lol:
What do you think they are doing? For them, Trianon is the #1 cause of all hardship they have ever faced in their life, closely followed by gypsies and jews.
Well, then it's settled then, right?
In any case, Jobbik should be concerned about the reality that Hungarians do not win wars, and that any arbitration of the Treaty of Trianon without force is impossible.
I guess they can persecute jews and gypsies, though.
QuotePécs (cultural capital of the EU, 2010, btw)
Istanbul is! :mad:
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 09, 2010, 01:26:40 PM
Jobbik should make some noise about the lost crownlands of St. Stephen.
The monarchy of St. Stephen doesn't exist. The Republic of Hungary has no claim to them.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 09, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
QuotePécs (cultural capital of the EU, 2010, btw)
Istanbul is! :mad:
both, actually
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2010, 02:33:37 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 09, 2010, 01:26:40 PM
Jobbik should make some noise about the lost crownlands of St. Stephen.
The monarchy of St. Stephen doesn't exist. The Republic of Hungary has no claim to them.
Oh right, yes. The Holy Crown Teaching (not sure about the translation of the last word) is also a major point of hungarian nazi lunaticism. St. Stephen's crown "was given by the Pope, it is the only such crown, so it is above all other monarch titles, and every treaty signed in the name of Hungary not endorsed by the Holy Crown is null and void". Yeah I know the theory has holes. These fuckers has this strange myth going on where they dress shamanistic, drum on shaman drums (which is for them the über all of all musical instruments, being divine and all), but pray to the christian god, and especially Virgin Mary, who was our patron supposedly ("that places Hungary right below Jesus")
So the thing with Jobbik is that altough such lunatics are a very small minority of the country, they run rampant in the active part of the party (not to mention their militia the Magyar Guard), and for me it is impossible to tell just how much actual power they hold over the organization. But that organization is going to get around 17% of votes according to the polls, becoming 2nd biggest party. Personally I would not be surprised by 25%. Their popularity among the young, english speaking, internet-using, quite liberal-ish life living people I know is rampant, so I fear their popularity among the bigotted unwashed masses.
Quote from: Tamas on April 09, 2010, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2010, 02:33:37 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 09, 2010, 01:26:40 PM
Jobbik should make some noise about the lost crownlands of St. Stephen.
The monarchy of St. Stephen doesn't exist. The Republic of Hungary has no claim to them.
Oh right, yes. The Holy Crown Teaching (not sure about the translation of the last word) is also a major point of hungarian nazi lunaticism. St. Stephen's crown "was given by the Pope, it is the only such crown, so it is above all other monarch titles, and every treaty signed in the name of Hungary not endorsed by the Holy Crown is null and void". Yeah I know the theory has holes. These fuckers has this strange myth going on where they dress shamanistic, drum on shaman drums (which is for them the über all of all musical instruments, being divine and all), but pray to the christian god, and especially Virgin Mary, who was our patron supposedly ("that places Hungary right below Jesus")
So the thing with Jobbik is that altough such lunatics are a very small minority of the country, they run rampant in the active part of the party (not to mention their militia the Magyar Guard), and for me it is impossible to tell just how much actual power they hold over the organization. But that organization is going to get around 17% of votes according to the polls, becoming 2nd biggest party. Personally I would not be surprised by 25%. Their popularity among the young, english speaking, internet-using, quite liberal-ish life living people I know is rampant, so I fear their popularity among the bigotted unwashed masses.
Neah, not crazier than "we're actually the ancestors of indo-europeans, our language is the original latin and in this area man first created civilization" theory...
Quote from: Alatriste on April 09, 2010, 02:01:49 AM
I thought that dubious distinction belonged to the Czechs...
The Czechs made some decent-quality hardware, at least. I always assumed Romania had the worst army.
I would rank them, from best to worst:
*USSR
*East Germany
*Poland
*Czechoslovakia
*Hungary
*Bulgaria
*Romania
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 11:05:41 AM
I'm a proud social-democrat. That's hardly "left wing nutso".
The fact that you're proud about it confirms that you are a nutso.
Social-democrats are just commies trying to pretend they aren't. :contract:
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
Quote from: Tamas on April 10, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
Am I the only one a little bit surprised about a 75% majority win?
Anyways, go... LMP.
Is there a percentage that needs to be hit before a party elects a MP?
Quote from: Tamas on April 10, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
Seem to me social democrats in most countries (can't speak to Hungary) do it pretty well.
They're getting dumped on in this thread because of Marty taint.
Quote from: clandestino on April 10, 2010, 11:16:52 AM
Is there a percentage that needs to be hit before a party elects a MP?
Yes, 5% of total votes cast must be held by the party.
As for results, we are nearing Polish levels in moronic planning: mostly in cities with universities, lots of people vote in a different city than their permanent residence address. For the first time this election, these werent distributed among the various voting districts of the city in question, but rather sent to a sinlge district.
This resulted in HUGE lines in several cities, there are STILL people waiting to vote (the whole thing should have ended two hours ago). Because of this, campaign-silence is still in effect so results and exit polls cannot be made public because "they could influence the people yet to vote"
:bleeding:
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: clandestino on April 10, 2010, 11:16:52 AM
Is there a percentage that needs to be hit before a party elects a MP?
Yes, 5% of total votes cast must be held by the party.
As for results, we are nearing Polish levels in moronic planning: mostly in cities with universities, lots of people vote in a different city than their permanent residence address. For the first time this election, these werent distributed among the various voting districts of the city in question, but rather sent to a sinlge district.
This resulted in HUGE lines in several cities, there are STILL people waiting to vote (the whole thing should have ended two hours ago). Because of this, campaign-silence is still in effect so results and exit polls cannot be made public because "they could influence the people yet to vote"
:bleeding:
Also happened right here... it was the perfect chance to shout "fraud". They never learn, do they?
Edit: did I hear this right? Fidesz 55%, the socialists 20% and Jobbik 17?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 10, 2010, 11:27:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 10, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
Seem to me social democrats in most countries (can't speak to Hungary) do it pretty well.
They're getting dumped on in this thread because of Marty taint.
In Sweden they are led by A WOMAN. I rest my case.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 11, 2010, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: clandestino on April 10, 2010, 11:16:52 AM
Is there a percentage that needs to be hit before a party elects a MP?
Yes, 5% of total votes cast must be held by the party.
As for results, we are nearing Polish levels in moronic planning: mostly in cities with universities, lots of people vote in a different city than their permanent residence address. For the first time this election, these werent distributed among the various voting districts of the city in question, but rather sent to a sinlge district.
This resulted in HUGE lines in several cities, there are STILL people waiting to vote (the whole thing should have ended two hours ago). Because of this, campaign-silence is still in effect so results and exit polls cannot be made public because "they could influence the people yet to vote"
:bleeding:
Also happened right here... it was the perfect chance to shout "fraud". They never learn, do they?
Edit: did I hear this right? Fidesz 55%, the socialists 20% and Jobbik 17?
Thats a very unofficial data, supposedly at 34% of votes processed.
Plus that info has LMP on 6.7% which is frankly horrible. If laisezz faire MDF can't get in, but "we heavily tax petrol usage while making industry grow exponentially so people get jobs" party does, then our voters are morons.
Beet wagons don't need fuel.
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 02:31:26 PM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on April 11, 2010, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: clandestino on April 10, 2010, 11:16:52 AM
Is there a percentage that needs to be hit before a party elects a MP?
Yes, 5% of total votes cast must be held by the party.
As for results, we are nearing Polish levels in moronic planning: mostly in cities with universities, lots of people vote in a different city than their permanent residence address. For the first time this election, these werent distributed among the various voting districts of the city in question, but rather sent to a sinlge district.
This resulted in HUGE lines in several cities, there are STILL people waiting to vote (the whole thing should have ended two hours ago). Because of this, campaign-silence is still in effect so results and exit polls cannot be made public because "they could influence the people yet to vote"
:bleeding:
Also happened right here... it was the perfect chance to shout "fraud". They never learn, do they?
Edit: did I hear this right? Fidesz 55%, the socialists 20% and Jobbik 17?
Thats a very unofficial data, supposedly at 34% of votes processed.
Plus that info has LMP on 6.7% which is frankly horrible. If laisezz faire MDF can't get in, but "we heavily tax petrol usage while making industry grow exponentially so people get jobs" party does, then our voters are morons.
Relax, Tamas. I've been voting since 2000 and I never saw my chosen party reaching 5% of the votes...
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 02:31:26 PM
Plus that info has LMP on 6.7% which is frankly horrible. If laisezz faire MDF can't get in, but "we heavily tax petrol usage while making industry grow exponentially so people get jobs" party does, then our voters are morons.
Isn't it expected? I mean if the socialists here were to take a beating, a part of their voters would vote on the far left.
Or reversely if other two right wing parties already have such a strong presence, it can be quite difficult to reach those 5%.
Or are you surprised because of recent polls?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 10, 2010, 11:27:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 10, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
Seem to me social democrats in most countries (can't speak to Hungary) do it pretty well.
They're getting dumped on in this thread because of Marty taint.
I thought it has less to do with Marty taint, and more to do with this being loons like Solmyr or Tamas who do that. :P
So official final result of the first round:
Fidesz: 52.76%
MSZP: 19.30%
Jobbik: 16.97%
LMP: 7.43%
MDF: 2.65%
In effect, Fidesz has already secured enough seats to govern alone (oh btw, on paper they are in alliance with christian democrats, but those are absolute puppets designed to cater for the illiterate rightwingers, so there is no point to talk of them as two separate entities, no one does).
And unless their voters decide the match has been won and stay home, they WILL get 75% in the second round.
All things considered I am glad I was not right regarding Jobbik's support, altough 17% is still awfully much for a party which can't say 3 sentences without the word "jew" appearing in at least one of them.
MDF's president(ess) resigned, I predict MDF to desintegrate.
LMP - well I just cant wrap my mind around them, apart from being a catering party for protest voters who despised the two big parties and were bothered by Jobbik's antisemitism. (yes, about 7% of hungarians are bothered by anti-semitic rhetoric)
I must say that despite my worries and personal disgust of Fidesz (the fuckers went from radical liberals to conservative populists in 20 years), I find myself hoping for their 2/3rd majority. It would be like the country playing russian roulette, but this deadlock must be broken.
I think we should all be happy for Fahdiz. Yeah, he's not going to rule a nice country, but ruling any country is better then most of us will ever do.
Quote from: Tamas on April 11, 2010, 05:06:08 PM
So official final result of the first round:
Fidesz: 52.76%
MSZP: 19.30%
Jobbik: 16.97%
LMP: 7.43%
MDF: 2.65%
In effect, Fidesz has already secured enough seats to govern alone (oh btw, on paper they are in alliance with christian democrats, but those are absolute puppets designed to cater for the illiterate rightwingers, so there is no point to talk of them as two separate entities, no one does).
And unless their voters decide the match has been won and stay home, they WILL get 75% in the second round.
All things considered I am glad I was not right regarding Jobbik's support, altough 17% is still awfully much for a party which can't say 3 sentences without the word "jew" appearing in at least one of them.
MDF's president(ess) resigned, I predict MDF to desintegrate.
LMP - well I just cant wrap my mind around them, apart from being a catering party for protest voters who despised the two big parties and were bothered by Jobbik's antisemitism. (yes, about 7% of hungarians are bothered by anti-semitic rhetoric)
I must say that despite my worries and personal disgust of Fidesz (the fuckers went from radical liberals to conservative populists in 20 years), I find myself hoping for their 2/3rd majority. It would be like the country playing russian roulette, but this deadlock must be broken.
So what you're saying is that we don't have to occupy Budapest in order to oust the government? :cry: But we were so ready for it...
Quote from: Tamas on April 10, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
Social-democrats are cowardly socialists. If you want to redistribute wealth, do it properly. If not, stop this wishy-washy shit.
So unless you are radical in your policies you are a coward? Compromise is what a democracy is about, not radicalism.
Is the MSZP the old communist party? Also the Jobbick chick isn't that bad looking.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 11, 2010, 07:06:07 PM
Is the MSZP the old communist party? Also the Jobbick chick isn't that bad looking.
Yes the are, altough they changed to social-liberalism a long time ago.
How many 'shocking' victories will far-right fringe parties win before mainstream Euro parties realize it might be wise to start thinking about doing something about immigration?
Quote from: derspiess on April 12, 2010, 04:29:30 PM
How many 'shocking' victories will far-right fringe parties win before mainstream Euro parties realize it might be wise to start thinking about doing something about immigration?
How many "shocking" victories of far-right fringe parties can you actually name? :huh:
EDIT: And immigration? It's Hungary ffs :huh:
I like that derspiess isn't afraid to support jew haters.
Quote from: garbon on April 12, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
I like that derspiess isn't afraid to support jew haters.
Yeah, way to read my post correctly, sweets :rolleyes:
My jew-loving credentials are solid. I don't support the far-right in Euroland or anywhere else; I'm just blaming the mainstream left (and some right) parties for being such cowards on immigration issues, which pushes people to vote for the BNP, parties of Le Pen & Darth Haider, and other nutjobs.
Quote from: garbon on April 12, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
I like that derspiess isn't afraid to support jew haters.
There's no reason to keep jews in Europe. We need them in Israel for the second coming.
Quote from: Sahib on April 12, 2010, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 12, 2010, 04:29:30 PM
How many 'shocking' victories will far-right fringe parties win before mainstream Euro parties realize it might be wise to start thinking about doing something about immigration?
How many "shocking" victories of far-right fringe parties can you actually name? :huh:
EDIT: And immigration? It's Hungary ffs :huh:
Do people actually immigrate to Hungary?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2010, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Sahib on April 12, 2010, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 12, 2010, 04:29:30 PM
How many 'shocking' victories will far-right fringe parties win before mainstream Euro parties realize it might be wise to start thinking about doing something about immigration?
How many "shocking" victories of far-right fringe parties can you actually name? :huh:
EDIT: And immigration? It's Hungary ffs :huh:
Do people actually immigrate to Hungary?
You mean you haven't heard of the Islamic Caliphate of Budapest? :mellow:
Quote from: derspiess on April 12, 2010, 04:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 12, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
I like that derspiess isn't afraid to support jew haters.
Yeah, way to read my post correctly, sweets :rolleyes:
My jew-loving credentials are solid. I don't support the far-right in Euroland or anywhere else; I'm just blaming the mainstream left (and some right) parties for being such cowards on immigration issues, which pushes people to vote for the BNP, parties of Le Pen & Darth Haider, and other nutjobs.
Yeah, those far-left parties should have had a stronger stance against those immigrating Jews and Gypsies several hundred years ago. They're really paying for it now!
No need to pile on derspiess on this.
The "gypsy issue" was the main thing for Jobbik. Regardless of wether that "issue" exists for real or not, there are race/culture driven conflicts between magyars and the roma. At least that's how most people experience it. And it does not matter much if these issues are in fact more like economical in nature, and not "racial". When both the majority and the minority thinks there is a cultural conflict, well, there is a cultural conflict.
And the only party to approach the issue as such was Jobbik. Sure, they approach it the most disguting way, parading militia on the streets of villages with lots of gypsies.
And I do not miss the other parties employing anti-roma rhetoric. I miss them acknowledging the issue. Saying "people! as long as we treat the gypsies as separate non-hungarian entities there will be no peace or improvement!" would had been more than nothing. Perhaps did not result in much votes but would had given the message that the issue is being seen.
Derspiess is correct though. As long as the european parties refuse to even acknowledge the issues that pop up with immigration in our societies nut job parties is going to continue to grow.
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
What issues are those?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PMWhat issues are those?
Xenophobia, insecurity and bigotry.
Quote from: Cecil on April 13, 2010, 12:25:22 PM
Derspiess is correct though. As long as the european parties refuse to even acknowledge the issues that pop up with immigration in our societies nut job parties is going to continue to grow.
The issue isn't with immigrants. It's with the xenophobic and genocidal tendencies of Eastern Europeans. This isn't something you can change with elections. This will require a third World War and complete submission to American authority once you (predictably) lose.
Quote from: Jacob on April 13, 2010, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PMWhat issues are those?
Xenophobia, insecurity and bigotry.
I wonder what kind of message a left-leaning party could make that could score points...:hmm:
According to porno, all Hungarian women love anal. How does this factor into Jobbik's relatively large win?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
What issues are those?
Crime, education, employment, poverty, cultural issues/refusal to assimilate, sense of entitlement, etc.
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
What issues are those?
Crime, education, employment, poverty, cultural issues/refusal to assimilate, sense of entitlement, etc.
In other words the same issue that American politicians refuse to address when dealing with non-whites?
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
What issues are those?
Crime, education, employment, poverty, cultural issues/refusal to assimilate, sense of entitlement, etc.
Why would any of that be the responsibility of the government? I don't see the line in the constitution that grants Congress the authority to regulate education, poverty, and white entitlement culture.
Quote from: Cecil on April 13, 2010, 01:43:05 PMMore predictable than Hansie.
Can't say the same for you as I have no idea who you are.
Quote from: Fate on April 13, 2010, 03:20:27 PM
Why would any of that be the responsibility of the government? I don't see the line in the constitution that grants Congress the authority to regulate education, poverty, and white entitlement culture.
Sorry, I think I missed the part of the conversation where we were talking about the US.
Quote from: Jacob on April 13, 2010, 03:39:18 PM
Quote from: Cecil on April 13, 2010, 01:43:05 PMMore predictable than Hansie.
Can't say the same for you as I have no idea who you are.
He's that turtle that beat Bugs Bunny two out of three times.
Quote from: Fate on April 13, 2010, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 13, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM
Functionally, gypsies = immigrants. Many of the same issues are in play.
What issues are those?
Crime, education, employment, poverty, cultural issues/refusal to assimilate, sense of entitlement, etc.
Why would any of that be the responsibility of the government? I don't see the line in the constitution that grants Congress the authority to regulate education, poverty, and white entitlement culture.
No, what I (and he, I think) mean is that there is no discussion about these things on a political party level. None. But these are issues. At least, they are PERCEIVED issues by the vast majority of the public. But you only get the xenophob idiot nazi parties talking about it. So they nail every single vote which is not disgusted by their attitude.
Like, when your back is hurt. You keep asking the doctor what to do. He keeps telling your back does not hurt, you are stupid. Or just ignores you. Then after a while a guy comes along and say he has a magic potion that will cure your back. After a while, you will say what the hell and buy that "potion"
Back to topic: there are 57 districts where there will be a second round in two (1.5) weeks time. IIRC, Fidesz has to win 48 of those to secure 75% of the seats.
Considering that they won each of those except for one, chances are slim. The only chance for the opposition parties is that Fidesz voters will think the game has been won and will stay away.
And of course one or two votes short of the 2/3rd majority ain't that much of a big deal since they could buy a vote here and there, especially considering that there are already several MSZP politicans/functionaries are under investigation for various corruption scandals and they have been on government. (the fact that all of these cases started during or near to the election campaign despite having been investigated for years hints at the amount of influence Fidesz has over the attorney's office, by the way)
That scandal about Fidesz' voter database... The Election Comittee sent the issue to the Supreme Court, as required, and the Supreme Judges decided that it is not proven that the audio track is of the person it is claimed to be, so case closed.
Never mind that even the Fidesz official in question does not deny that it is he talking, and Fidesz' defense has been "so what? we havent done anything illegal".
:bleeding:
I just love this modern democracy we have.
So, the 2/3rd majority has been achieved with much ease.
Let's see what happens. Fidesz's leader, Orbán now has a chance to make it into the history books, one way or the other... Or he can just sit on top of the shitpile in comfort.
I hope for true right-centrist reforms of course, altough Fidesz has floated to the left economically more than a decade ago.
And let's hope a true libertarian party will rise so I will have someone to vote on.
Is this a discussion thread or more of a personal blog?
There was discussion about gypsies :contract:
Quote from: Tamas on April 14, 2010, 04:59:08 AM
there will be a second round in two (1.5) weeks time.
:unsure:
It was the "two=1.5" that Yi was raising his eyebrows about. The finer points of Magyar mathematics elude his dumbed-down American mind :P
Quote from: Tamas on April 26, 2010, 02:16:54 AM
Let's see what happens. Fidesz's leader, Orbán now has a chance to make it into the history books, one way or the other... Or he can just sit on top of the shitpile in comfort.
Let me simplify it for you:
Capitalist party elected by morons tries to apply the only economic doctrine known to them: more debt and government spending (to 'stimulate' the debt-laden economy).
Hungary asks EU to extend its loan.
Then asks for even more money, pointing to the need to 'stimulate' the economy.
Speculators take what then can and go away, pockets full after looting the nation.
Fidesz sees that none of its policies actually stimulate anything, because people have no money to consume wildly and because most stimulus is lost in corruption.
Fidesz sees its near bankrupcy and asks for more emergency loans to the EU...
living standards deteriorate in Hungary.
Fidesz is totally unable to comprehend anything, its politicans caring only about lining their own pockets with bribes.
Rinse and repeat until the EU (i.e. Germany) is no longer able to give out free handouts (aka emergency loans) to Hungary.
Country goes bankrupt, GDP plummets, misery everywhere.
Fidesz will say more "liberalization" and "market-driven" reforms are needed.
People like Tamas will believe it.
Continue until Hungary is a wasteland with only Orbán and Tamas living in it, wondering why that happened after so much wonderful liberalization.
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 26, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
Let me simplify it for you:
Capitalist party elected by morons tries to apply the only economic doctrine known to them: more debt and government spending (to 'stimulate' the debt-laden economy).
Because nothing says Capitalism like huge government programs! If only we had some socialists and left wingers around who never go into government debt because of their fondness for small governments with small manageable budgets.
Quote from: Valmy
Because nothing says Capitalism like huge government programs!
Indeed.
Because without government stimulus, the capitalist financial system collapses.
We've seen that. Take the government out of the equation and by now your only thought would be "how can I eat today?"
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 26, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Because without government stimulus, the capitalist financial system collapses.
lulz
I am so going to regret this, but...
so what is your solution Martim?
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 26, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 26, 2010, 02:16:54 AM
Let's see what happens. Fidesz's leader, Orbán now has a chance to make it into the history books, one way or the other... Or he can just sit on top of the shitpile in comfort.
Let me simplify it for you:
Capitalist party elected by morons tries to apply the only economic doctrine known to them: more debt and government spending (to 'stimulate' the debt-laden economy).
Hungary asks EU to extend its loan.
Then asks for even more money, pointing to the need to 'stimulate' the economy.
Speculators take what then can and go away, pockets full after looting the nation.
Fidesz sees that none of its policies actually stimulate anything, because people have no money to consume wildly and because most stimulus is lost in corruption.
Fidesz sees its near bankrupcy and asks for more emergency loans to the EU...
living standards deteriorate in Hungary.
Fidesz is totally unable to comprehend anything, its politicans caring only about lining their own pockets with bribes.
Rinse and repeat until the EU (i.e. Germany) is no longer able to give out free handouts (aka emergency loans) to Hungary.
Country goes bankrupt, GDP plummets, misery everywhere.
Fidesz will say more "liberalization" and "market-driven" reforms are needed.
People like Tamas will believe it.
Continue until Hungary is a wasteland with only Orbán and Tamas living in it, wondering why that happened after so much wonderful liberalization.
STFU you asstard. People from a PIIGS nations dont get to complain about running up their debts ever. The day the countries in the north stop subsidizing your lazy asses is the day I start believing in a higher power because we have certainly been blessed.
martim is like those real communists of old: rich enough not to have to suffer because of the nonsensical system he believes in. No reason to take him serious in other words.
Quote from: Barrister
I am so going to regret this, but...
so what is your solution Martim?
Don't play by the rules of a system that does not work.
As in...
Do not allow independent banks (as they create money; only the Central Bank should have that right).
Avoid inflation by tying your currency to what is actually produced in the nation. Make the Forint reflect the worth of the Hungarian nation (this actually totally eliminates inflation).
Do not have an economy that depends on debt. Spend what you have, not what you think you'll have. Do not rely on foreign loans.
Do not privatize key areas of the econony (especially utilities). These companies should be state-owned and charge fair prices.
Do not create a consumer mindset on your population. Don't teach kids (or adults, for that matter) to want more than they can possibly have.
Show people that cooperation is better than competiton. Make all Hungarians see they're a unit and that the good of one is the good of all (and vice-versa).
Force all that buy stock to own it for at least 5 years, to encourage investors and discourage speculators.
Allow society to shun selfish individuals. Lock up the corrupt in prision.
Don't charge interest.
Pay people what they truly are worth.
Quote from: Cecil
STFU you asstard. People from a PIIGS nations dont get to complain about running up their debts ever.
STFU, pigdog. The PIIGS nations are where they are because they listened to 'advices' on how "wonderful" it was to have liberalized economies.
We had it good when the State controlled things and the economy wasn't liberalized. But as soon as things got liberalized, prices skyrocketed and wages got frozen. And the wonderful stock markets tanked, causing huge losses to the common folk who dared venture in it.
And, believing lying northern capitalists, we linked our growth to more debt. Now we have debts to our ears and nobody lends any more (but they do lend to you because you're big and they're afraid of losing money if YOU go bust. The situation in the US and other northern nations is even worse than ours, but the speculators pick on us because we're smaller).
But you WILL go bust, and sooner than you think. That is the price to pay for having an insane debt-based economic system.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80
No reason to take him serious in other words.
And is there any reason to take seriously the advocates of a system that put the world on the edge of catastrophe, and most nations close to bankrupcy?
Martim, you listed nine points. Six of which merely state what you wouldn't do - which is not at all the same as what you think the answer is.
What you are left with is "co-operation is good" (indeed it is - and then what), allow society to shun selfish individuals ( :huh:), and "pay people what they are worth" (which sounds great - but how do you determine that)?
But reading between the lines - are you really an unreformed Marxist?
Communist die-hards! :nelson:
Seriously though, from what I have gathered in my little bubble here, it was the socialists who got you into this problem. Fidesz seem more likely to stamp out the corruption and make the necessary cuts to save your country, and that's why they have got this record result (over two thirds of the seats, IIRC).
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 26, 2010, 11:36:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister
I am so going to regret this, but...
so what is your solution Martim?
Don't play by the rules of a system that does not work.
As in...
Do not allow independent banks (as they create money; only the Central Bank should have that right).
Avoid inflation by tying your currency to what is actually produced in the nation. Make the Forint reflect the worth of the Hungarian nation (this actually totally eliminates inflation).
Do not have an economy that depends on debt. Spend what you have, not what you think you'll have. Do not rely on foreign loans.
Do not privatize key areas of the econony (especially utilities). These companies should be state-owned and charge fair prices.
Do not create a consumer mindset on your population. Don't teach kids (or adults, for that matter) to want more than they can possibly have.
Show people that cooperation is better than competiton. Make all Hungarians see they're a unit and that the good of one is the good of all (and vice-versa).
Force all that buy stock to own it for at least 5 years, to encourage investors and discourage speculators.
Allow society to shun selfish individuals. Lock up the corrupt in prision.
Don't charge interest.
Pay people what they truly are worth.
Quote from: Cecil
STFU you asstard. People from a PIIGS nations dont get to complain about running up their debts ever.
STFU, pigdog. The PIIGS nations are where they are because they listened to 'advices' on how "wonderful" it was to have liberalized economies.
We had it good when the State controlled things and the economy wasn't liberalized. But as soon as things got liberalized, prices skyrocketed and wages got frozen. And the wonderful stock markets tanked, causing huge losses to the common folk who dared venture in it.
And, believing lying northern capitalists, we linked our growth to more debt. Now we have debts to our ears and nobody lends any more (but they do lend to you because you're big and they're afraid of losing money if YOU go bust. The situation in the US and other northern nations is even worse than ours, but the speculators pick on us because we're smaller).
But you WILL go bust, and sooner than you think. That is the price to pay for having an insane debt-based economic system.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80
No reason to take him serious in other words.
And is there any reason to take seriously the advocates of a system that put the world on the edge of catastrophe, and most nations close to bankrupcy?
No you are in debt because you are lazy ass good for nothing worthless individuals that should all fall into an ocean.
Quote from: Palisadoes on April 26, 2010, 11:51:22 AM
Communist die-hards! :nelson:
Seriously though, from what I have gathered in my little bubble here, it was the socialists who got you into this problem. Fidesz seem more likely to stamp out the corruption and make the necessary cuts to save your country, and that's why they have got this record result (over two thirds of the seats, IIRC).
Yeah. Thats certainly what I hope for, but Fidesz had a simple majority for four years and all they change was that they re-applied Horthy's PR book into good use and established the financial basis of their party.
I am not saying it is fair to expect from a party to destroy itself with reforms, but point is, no one knows what they will do.
That's how they won. The people were fed up with MSZP, and all the other parties were too radical in one way or the other. Fidesz on the other hand kept saying to all the voter sub-groups what they wanted to hear, and did not give a single hard number on what they will do.
So this may turn out to be a good idea, but basically what happened is that the people handed the country over to Orbán saying "whatever dude, just fix it"
Funny thing, both Libertarians and Communist seems to think they live in 1500 AD :)
Quote from: Cecil on April 26, 2010, 12:17:54 PM
No you are in debt because you are lazy ass good for nothing worthless individuals that should all fall into an ocean.
As a member of a state that is forever falling into the ocean, find a new line. That one is old and tired.
Quote from: Tamas on April 26, 2010, 12:44:00 PM
Yeah. Thats certainly what I hope for, but Fidesz had a simple majority for four years and all they change was that they re-applied Horthy's PR book into good use and established the financial basis of their party.
I am not saying it is fair to expect from a party to destroy itself with reforms, but point is, no one knows what they will do.
That's how they won. The people were fed up with MSZP, and all the other parties were too radical in one way or the other. Fidesz on the other hand kept saying to all the voter sub-groups what they wanted to hear, and did not give a single hard number on what they will do.
So this may turn out to be a good idea, but basically what happened is that the people handed the country over to Orbán saying "whatever dude, just fix it"
Apparently the financial markets have reacted well to this result in Hungary too. I imagine this is due to the governing party having a large enough mandate to pass reforms as necessary (i.e. decisive governments can do things harder and faster than indecisive ones).
Wow.
I'm still wondering what type of -ism Martim shares though.
And Cecil, aren't you Irish?:unsure:
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 26, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Indeed.
Because without government stimulus, the capitalist financial system collapses.
We've seen that. Take the government out of the equation and by now your only thought would be "how can I eat today?"
Like the way it did during Clinton's surpluses.