A depressing read. :(
Way to long to post though.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/201003/jobless-america-future
Depressing, but essential. Thank you.
When jobs disappear, they rarely come back.
And, since there's no paradigm-changing technology on the horizon a la teh intrawebs, get used to the numbers.
Your blue collars jobs are being taken by Chinamen, Indians, and East Europeans. Live with it. Too bad they are not taking your political culture as well, but hey.
Hey, thanks for the reminder that I need to go pick up my guns. :)
Well I certainly picked a terrific time period to graduate from college.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 16, 2010, 06:47:59 AM
When jobs disappear, they rarely come back.
It's actually interesting because in the most frequently used lingo jobs are "created" but then they are "lost". I wonder why can't we just go and find them once they are lost, instead of creating new ones. Seems awfully wasteful to me.
My assumption is that the jobs that are permanently lost don't come back because they are found to be useless and/or not productive in terms of generating revenue... unless you count jobs that are lost to places like India. :)
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2010, 07:25:25 AM
Your blue collars jobs are being taken by Chinamen, Indians, and East Europeans. Live with it. Too bad they are not taking your political culture as well, but hey.
The problem is that the offshore outsourcing is hitting also high skill white collar jobs, because companies and firms care only about short term bottom line. One of the examples is the legal profession - it becomes more and more common to outsource low-end "drudgery" tasks (e.g. due diligence or document review) to India or South Africa and the like. While this may serve as a short-term income boost (since a qualified lawyer reviewing these documents in India or South Africa may be cheaper than a junior trainee who used to perform such jobs in London or New york), in the long term this will stifle the influx of fresh blood into the profession, since trainees will have nothing to train on.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 16, 2010, 06:47:59 AM
When jobs disappear, they rarely come back.
And, since there's no paradigm-changing technology on the horizon a la teh intrawebs, get used to the numbers.
I think we are heading towards a "Malthusian" labour dystopia, where new jobs are created in numbers much smaller than the population growth would require, thus reversing the old social order by making the privileged work and sustain both themselves (at the above-average quality of life) and the underprivileged who will remain unemployed and live off welfare at the biological sustenance level (to prevent them from starting a revolt).
Increasingly I feel annoyed that I was born a decade or so too late.
As I approach graduation I feel increasingly worried, there seems to be no entry level positions anywhere.
Quote from: Tyr on February 16, 2010, 09:03:20 AM
Increasingly I feel annoyed that I was born a decade or so too late.
As I approach graduation I feel increasingly worried, there seems to be no entry level positions anywhere.
It's funny because I feel the opposite. I feel I missed something by not growing up in the internet, gay rights etc. era. All these things entered my life when I was in my early twenties.
Quote from: Martinus on February 16, 2010, 08:45:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 16, 2010, 06:47:59 AM
When jobs disappear, they rarely come back.
It's actually interesting because in the most frequently used lingo jobs are "created" but then they are "lost". I wonder why can't we just go and find them once they are lost, instead of creating new ones. Seems awfully wasteful to me.
Some of them are found, in places like China and India.
At any rate, I'm looking forward to the rolling back of the social 'progress' of the last 40 years.
This is weird. The talk around here is that Quebec is heading into a shortage of employees, not jobs. Especially specialized jobs.
I need to find one that pays more.
Quote from: Martinus on February 16, 2010, 08:57:01 AM
The problem is that the offshore outsourcing is hitting also high skill white collar jobs, because companies and firms care only about short term bottom line. One of the examples is the legal profession - it becomes more and more common to outsource low-end "drudgery" tasks (e.g. due diligence or document review) to India or South Africa and the like. While this may serve as a short-term income boost (since a qualified lawyer reviewing these documents in India or South Africa may be cheaper than a junior trainee who used to perform such jobs in London or New york), in the long term this will stifle the influx of fresh blood into the profession, since trainees will have nothing to train on.
And then the firms as a whole will either offshore or they'll import qualified senior lawyers when the time comes. What's wrong with that?
Quote from: Martinus on February 16, 2010, 08:57:01 AM
The problem is that the offshore outsourcing is hitting also high skill white collar jobs, because companies and firms care only about short term bottom line.
It's everyone and everywhere. That's what capitalism is all about, at least the dominant interpretation nowadays. This movement will go on increasing thanks to globalization and the creation of middle-classes in emerging countries. And let's face it, western countries are looking more and more like retirement homes full of aging citizens when the 3rd world is mostly young.
The future belongs to brown pipple :bleeding:
G.
Quote from: Caliga on February 16, 2010, 08:37:50 AM
Hey, thanks for the reminder that I need to go pick up my guns. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F3051%2Fcowboy3.gif&hash=8827809ba9847a144b1f9b86c86570d7b76c0959)
Quote from: Grallon on February 16, 2010, 09:18:12 AM
The future belongs to brown pipple :bleeding:
Maybe that's for the best.
QuoteIt's funny because I feel the opposite. I feel I missed something by not growing up in the internet, gay rights etc. era. All these things entered my life when I was in my early twenties.
Which would you rather be- flaming and in poverty or a discrete man lover and gainfully employed. :P
Quote from: Grallon on February 16, 2010, 09:18:12 AM
It's everyone and everywhere. That's what capitalism is all about, at least the dominant interpretation nowadays. This movement will go on increasing thanks to globalization and the creation of middle-classes in emerging countries. And let's face it, western countries are looking more and more like retirement homes full of aging citizens when the 3rd world is mostly young.
The future belongs to brown pipple :bleeding:G.
Meh.
The 3rd world isn't really doing much though is it?
The big economic threat is China and their demographics are crazier than even the worst of Eastern Europe's kidless decade.
India though...now India is interesting. Developing and with a surplus of kids.
That's why China is more dangerous than India.
From the Article:
QuoteIf it persists much longer, this era of high joblessness will likely change the life course and character of a generation of young adults—and quite possibly those of the children behind them as well. It will leave an indelible imprint on many blue-collar white men—and on white culture. It could change the nature of modern marriage, and also cripple marriage as an institution in many communities. It may already be plunging many inner cities into a kind of despair and dysfunction not seen for decades. Ultimately, it is likely to warp our politics, our culture, and the character of our society for years.
I already miss the hope and functional government of the Kwame Kilpatrick era. :(
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 16, 2010, 08:40:33 AM
Well I certainly picked a terrific time period to graduate from college.
But we're the ones with drive who actually are employed 20 somethings.
We ain't hiring you young people.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 09:43:41 AMBut we're the ones with drive who actually are employed 20 somethings.
Didn't you have to travel halfway around the world for a job? And probably one that doesn't pay particularly well either.
I take heart in that the experts are mostly united in this. I have faith in their prescience - good times for workers are ahead.
Quote from: Zanza on February 16, 2010, 10:25:39 AM
Didn't you have to travel halfway around the world for a job? And probably one that doesn't pay particularly well either.
I thought Tim did that because he wanted to... not because he had no other option. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on February 16, 2010, 08:57:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2010, 07:25:25 AM
Your blue collars jobs are being taken by Chinamen, Indians, and East Europeans. Live with it. Too bad they are not taking your political culture as well, but hey.
The problem is that the offshore outsourcing is hitting also high skill white collar jobs, because companies and firms care only about short term bottom line. One of the examples is the legal profession - it becomes more and more common to outsource low-end "drudgery" tasks (e.g. due diligence or document review) to India or South Africa and the like. While this may serve as a short-term income boost (since a qualified lawyer reviewing these documents in India or South Africa may be cheaper than a junior trainee who used to perform such jobs in London or New york), in the long term this will stifle the influx of fresh blood into the profession, since trainees will have nothing to train on.
There are limits to how much lawyering can be outsourced. The vast majority of it is jurisdiction-specific.
Quote from: Caliga on February 16, 2010, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 16, 2010, 10:25:39 AM
Didn't you have to travel halfway around the world for a job? And probably one that doesn't pay particularly well either.
I thought Tim did that because he wanted to... not because he had no other option. :huh:
He did it to taint an entire other continent.
Quote from: Malthus on February 16, 2010, 10:39:21 AM
There are limits to how much lawyering can be outsourced. The vast majority of it is jurisdiction-specific.
Hooray for an independent judicial branch that enforces protectionism!
...kind of sucks if you want to move around in the US, mind you; you'll be taking another bar unless you're lucky.
Quote from: ulmont on February 16, 2010, 10:44:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 16, 2010, 10:39:21 AM
There are limits to how much lawyering can be outsourced. The vast majority of it is jurisdiction-specific.
Hooray for an independent judicial branch that enforces protectionism!
...kind of sucks if you want to move around in the US, mind you; you'll be taking another bar unless you're lucky.
There is certainly plenty of protectionism inherent in local-level (state or provincial) licensing requirements, but even without that, you would still need a knowledge of local laws, and ability to make appearances before local tribunals and courts - in person; plus contacts with local regulators and the like.
Not that it would be impossible for a non-local to acquire knowledge of local regs - I certainly know the regs in specialized areas of law in all Canadian provinces and have a working knowledge of similar laws in the major US states and in some European countries - but the whole "package" would be difficult to orchestrate from outside the jurisdiction.
Certainly some tasks could be done outside the jurisdiction, but most will require local knowledge & connections.
Quote from: Caliga on February 16, 2010, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 16, 2010, 10:25:39 AM
Didn't you have to travel halfway around the world for a job? And probably one that doesn't pay particularly well either.
I thought Tim did that because he wanted to... not because he had no other option. :huh:
Maybe. But then, as the OP article said, education is one of the fields that isn't hit that hard by the crisis.
Quote from: PDH on February 16, 2010, 10:39:38 AM
He did it to taint an entire other continent.
He needn't worry as Kim Jong Il has Asia covered. :)
Quote from: ulmont on February 16, 2010, 10:44:15 AM
Hooray for an independent judicial branch that enforces protectionism!
...kind of sucks if you want to move around in the US, mind you; you'll be taking another bar unless you're lucky.
Well, there's always the multi-state bar; you've still got to take an exam, but at least it isn't the whole shebang.
Actually, the whole process is getting much more pronounced in the IT world than most people would think, I believe.
Increasingly, I feel, that the skills of Windows server management I have picked up at work will not be so international in practice.
The future of IT would warrant an own thread, but the move into "clouds" can only increase in volume and speed, and the big IT service companies will be by all chance placed in east europe and India. With network speeds as big as they are already, and with server virtualization, there will be less and less point for any company to have their servers around locally, rather than having them administered by a big service company, who already have eastern wage slaves doing that for others, and with good skills.
The question of course, will the eastern countries manage to turn this (as the general outsourcing thingie) into a historical possibility of finally, after a thousand years, growing an own strong middle class, or it will be lost to political instability again.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 16, 2010, 12:08:53 PM
Well, there's always the multi-state bar; you've still got to take an exam, but at least it isn't the whole shebang.
Try that with Florida* or Louisiana and see how far it gets you.
*While Florida uses the MBE, they have no reciprocity and don't even honor MPRE scores from other jurisdictions.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember similar hysteria after the early 90s recession - talk of a jobless recovery, Generation X not being able to find work, first generation to have a lower standard of living, etc.
Things worked out pretty well after that. :)
Oh, and thank goodness for the mobility protocols in Canada, which allow you to move to any province that doesn't rhyme with Trebec and be able to join the bar without writing exams.
Not that we need anymore lawyers, we've got enough.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 16, 2010, 12:19:18 PM
Not that we need anymore lawyers, we've got enough.
No such thing.
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2010, 12:14:56 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember similar hysteria after the early 90s recession - talk of a jobless recovery, Generation X not being able to find work, first generation to have a lower standard of living, etc.
Things worked out pretty well after that. :)
I'm even older and can recall at least another turn on this particular wheel, maybe two :D
The media are either worried about the dependancy ratio (ie a shortage of workers) or no jobs at all for expensive Westerners.
I'm not in the slightest bit worried. Yes, Indian workers have moved into some of the higher value stuff, but at the same time the call-centre crap is starting to return home as India is too expensive (remember it's members of the Indian middle class that man the call centres, not a 100-rupees a day peasant).
I place my faith in Ricardo's theory of comparative advantage to keep us in work. Of course that does not preclude a change in our relative status.
We're domed.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
We're domed.
You may be. I on the other hand still have a full head of hair.
Quote
Using national survey data, she's found that to an unprecedented degree, people who graduated from high school in the 2000s dislike the idea of work for work's sake, and expect jobs and career to be tailored to their interests and lifestyle. Yet they also have much higher material expectations than previous generations, and believe financial success is extremely important. "There's this idea that, 'Yeah, I don't want to work, but I'm still going to get all the stuff I want,'" Twenge told me. "It's a generation in which every kid has been told, 'You can be anything you want. You're special.'"
...
By 1999, according to one survey, 91 percent of teens described themselves as responsible, 74 percent as physically attractive, and 79 percent as very intelligent. (More than 40 percent of teens also expected that they would be earning $75,000 a year or more by age 30; the median salary made by a 30-year-old was $27,000 that year.)
Ah, the sweet, sweet taste of hopes and dreams crushed by the cold fist of reality.
Edit:
Quote
In his remarks at last year's commencement, in May, The New York Times reported, University of Connecticut President Michael Hogan addressed the phenomenon of students' turning down jobs, with no alternatives, because they didn't feel the jobs were good enough. "My first word of advice is this," he told the graduates. "Say yes. In fact, say yes as often as you can.
lol
Quote from: Maximus on February 16, 2010, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
We're domed.
You may be. I on the other hand still have a full head of hair.
So do I! I keep it in a jar on my desk.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 16, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
Quote
In his remarks at last year's commencement, in May, The New York Times reported, University of Connecticut President Michael Hogan addressed the phenomenon of students' turning down jobs, with no alternatives, because they didn't feel the jobs were good enough. "My first word of advice is this," he told the graduates. "Say yes. In fact, say yes as often as you can.
lol
Young People are amusing.
Meh, just join the military and ride this baby out. Maybe they'll even like it and stay in. We could always use a few more flyboys or bullet sponges.
In any case, I got a decent job. I don't love it, but I'm glad I have it. :cool:
My generation: :lmfao:
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
Meh, just join the military and ride this baby out. Maybe they'll even like it and stay in. We could always use a few more flyboys or bullet sponges.
In any case, I got a decent job. I don't love it, but I'm glad I have it. :cool:
My generation: :lmfao:
Many companies and bosses have a serious hard on for hiring vets. I know I do. Fuckers know to come in on time and if they can't, call in.
meanwhile, Ashleigh and River wander in an hour late and act put out if you get on their case about.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2010, 02:32:49 PM
Many companies and bosses have a serious hard on for hiring vets. I know I do. Fuckers know to come in on time and if they can't, call in.
In a past job, I had an HR person who, in the course of my initial interview, kept trying to rationalize that I was a vet because I had been in ROTC. I kept telling her "no" to the point of nearly ending the interview, and she finally dropped it. But I strongly suspect she went back to my application & changed my answer from "no" to "yes" for that question :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2010, 02:32:49 PM
Many companies and bosses have a serious hard on for hiring vets. I know I do.
:yes: :smoke:
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2010, 12:12:21 PM
Actually, the whole process is getting much more pronounced in the IT world than most people would think, I believe.
Increasingly, I feel, that the skills of Windows server management I have picked up at work will not be so international in practice.
The future of IT would warrant an own thread, but the move into "clouds" can only increase in volume and speed, and the big IT service companies will be by all chance placed in east europe and India. With network speeds as big as they are already, and with server virtualization, there will be less and less point for any company to have their servers around locally, rather than having them administered by a big service company, who already have eastern wage slaves doing that for others, and with good skills.
The question of course, will the eastern countries manage to turn this (as the general outsourcing thingie) into a historical possibility of finally, after a thousand years, growing an own strong middle class, or it will be lost to political instability again.
the big question is of course how long the far eastern wage-slaves will be content with being wage-slaves. Quite a bit longer given their numbers, but it won't last forever cause even numbers can't ultimately prevent wage-slaves from agitating towards not-wage-slaveism. And that's something no force on earth can prevent (not even the CCP)
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
Meh, just join the military and ride this baby out. Maybe they'll even like it and stay in. We could always use a few more flyboys or bullet sponges.
In any case, I got a decent job. I don't love it, but I'm glad I have it. :cool:
My generation: :lmfao:
tha tmight be an idea...
have everyone join the army, then conquer the world. By the very nature of the beast all jobs will then be national.
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2010, 12:14:56 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember similar hysteria after the early 90s recession - talk of a jobless recovery, Generation X not being able to find work, first generation to have a lower standard of living, etc.
Things worked out pretty well after that. :)
And the article says those fears were true, that those who graduated during the recession never caught up to those who graduated before or after.
Quote from: ulmont on February 16, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Try that with Florida* or Louisiana and see how far it gets you.
*While Florida uses the MBE, they have no reciprocity and don't even honor MPRE scores from other jurisdictions.
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 16, 2010, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 16, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
Meh, just join the military and ride this baby out. Maybe they'll even like it and stay in. We could always use a few more flyboys or bullet sponges.
In any case, I got a decent job. I don't love it, but I'm glad I have it. :cool:
My generation: :lmfao:
Many companies and bosses have a serious hard on for hiring vets. I know I do. Fuckers know to come in on time and if they can't, call in.
meanwhile, Ashleigh and River wander in an hour late and act put out if you get on their case about.
You're goddamn right about that. I plan on milking my vet cred for all its worth. Fuck yeah.
Apparently, I'm now leaving whole words out of my messages now. :lol:
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
Quote from: ulmont on February 16, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Try that with Florida* or Louisiana and see how far it gets you.
*While Florida uses the MBE, they have no reciprocity and don't even honor MPRE scores from other jurisdictions.
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Florida's the 4th most populated state in the nation.
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2010, 12:54:14 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 16, 2010, 12:19:18 PM
Not that we need anymore lawyers, we've got enough.
No such thing.
Sure there is. The surplus of lawyers has been devastating to our modern society.
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2010, 12:14:56 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember similar hysteria after the early 90s recession - talk of a jobless recovery, Generation X not being able to find work, first generation to have a lower standard of living, etc.
Things worked out pretty well after that. :)
Sort of. Turns out, most of it was built on smoke and mirrors.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Florida's the 4th most populated state in the nation.
Yeah, but it's in the South, and is full of Mexicans.
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 07:10:17 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Florida's the 4th most populated state in the nation.
Yeah, but it's in the South, and is full of Mexicans.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 07:10:17 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Florida's the 4th most populated state in the nation.
Yeah, but it's in the South, and is full of Mexicans.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
I assume he will reply "Cubans? Mexicans? Pah, what's the difference?"
Quote from: Agelastus on February 16, 2010, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 07:10:17 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM
Why would anyone care about those states? :huh:
Florida's the 4th most populated state in the nation.
Yeah, but it's in the South, and is full of Mexicans.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
I assume he will reply "Cubans? Mexicans? Pah, what's the difference?"
I don't disagree, it will however merely reinforce the aforementioned impression.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 07:12:16 PM
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
I'm white, comfortable, devastatingly good-looking, married and I have an IQ of 213. I don't care what people who have none of those qualities think of me.
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 07:12:16 PM
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
I'm white, comfortable, devastatingly good-looking, married and I have an IQ of 213. I don't care what people who have none of those qualities think of me.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi76.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj18%2FFunkMonk2000%2Finternet.jpg&hash=a34d022e732ce4ffd99120bd501d8068bdaa3629)
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 16, 2010, 04:34:51 PM
the big question is of course how long the far eastern wage-slaves will be content with being wage-slaves. Quite a bit longer given their numbers, but it won't last forever cause even numbers can't ultimately prevent wage-slaves from agitating towards not-wage-slaveism. And that's something no force on earth can prevent (not even the CCP)
Wage-slaveism is good for me.
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 07:12:16 PM
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say these things.
I'm white, comfortable, devastatingly good-looking, married and I have an IQ of 213. I don't care what people who have none of those qualities think of me.
:lol:
Of course wage-slavism will not last forever and that is key to raising standards of living here and in the rest of the third world, but even if you double the current wages in the developing countries, you will still be only marginally approaching the west european levels, and only in case of white collar jobs.
This is one the reasons I hate that we have such high taxes in Hungary, btw. We have no natural resources, our agriculture is outclassed by a lot of oversea countries, our only hope is the various service industries.
Not really related, but:
Tamas, you should move to Singapore. You would like it here. Very low taxes, not much of a social system to pay for so everybody can make his own fortune, excellent infrastructure, efficient bureaucracy, well-paid jobs, language of business is English. I think it is closer to your ideal country than the USA.
Quote from: Neil on February 16, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
married and I have an IQ of 213.
Those two attributes are inconsistent.
Quote from: Zanza on February 17, 2010, 05:47:49 AM
Not really related, but:
Tamas, you should move to Singapore. You would like it here. Very low taxes, not much of a social system to pay for so everybody can make his own fortune, excellent infrastructure, efficient bureaucracy, well-paid jobs, language of business is English. I think it is closer to your ideal country than the USA.
Tamas, don't listen to Zanza. Singapore doesn't embrace civil liberties with as much enthusiasm as the USA. Come visit America before you make up your mind. I'll take you to the shooting range. ;)
Quote from: Zanza on February 17, 2010, 05:47:49 AM
Not really related, but:
Tamas, you should move to Singapore. You would like it here. Very low taxes, not much of a social system to pay for so everybody can make his own fortune, excellent infrastructure, efficient bureaucracy, well-paid jobs, language of business is English. I think it is closer to your ideal country than the USA.
Also, fascism.
Quote from: citizen k on February 17, 2010, 05:52:07 AMI'll take you to the shooting range. ;)
And I'll give you a good headstart. :alberta:
QuoteI'm white, comfortable, devastatingly good-looking, married and I have an IQ of 213. I don't care what people who have none of those qualities think of me.
Come now, Korean chairs are lovely.
:lol:
Zanza: "here"? Arent you in: Germany?
Quote from: Tamas on February 17, 2010, 06:18:41 AM
:lol:
Zanza: "here"? Arent you in: Germany?
No, I am in: Singapore. That's why I wrote "here". :smarty: I currently work here on a project for a couple of months.
Quote from: Zanza on February 17, 2010, 06:30:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 17, 2010, 06:18:41 AM
:lol:
Zanza: "here"? Arent you in: Germany?
No, I am in: Singapore. That's why I wrote "here". :smarty: I currently work here on a project for a couple of months.
Well if you can fetch me a windows admin job there, dont hold yourself back ^_^
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
Also the part of the interview where you make them take off their shoes is probably off-putting.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 17, 2010, 07:00:04 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
Also the part of the interview where you make them take off their shoes is probably off-putting.
:lol:
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
You're not meant to put age on a CV though are you? :unsure:
Quote from: Tyr on February 17, 2010, 07:07:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
You're not meant to put age on a CV though are you? :unsure:
Why not? :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 17, 2010, 07:07:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate having to hire new people. They put me off with their cvs (too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.) and then any who make through the initial sieve end up sucking during the interview.
You're not meant to put age on a CV though are you? :unsure:
Why not? :huh:
Prejudiced fucks like yourself. And what do you mean 'shitty university'? You went to a shitty university. What's your problem?
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
Why not? :huh:
You're just not meant to. Some legal stuff about agism. Or so I hear, I'm far from an expert on such matters.
Quote from: Tyr on February 17, 2010, 07:17:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
Why not? :huh:
You're just not meant to. Some legal stuff about agism. Or so I hear, I'm far from an expert on such matters.
What if a company wants to hire someone and develop this person professionally with a long term goal? Shouldn't they be able to specifically hire someone young?
Then they can ask your age over an interview. Or you know, look at how much experience said person have.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 17, 2010, 07:30:50 AM
Then they can ask your age over an interview. Or you know, look at how much experience said person have.
That's the other thing, it's not as if age can't be deduced most of the time browsing through the prospective employee's previous experience, graduation year or things like that.
Yeah, that's true but still officially it seems to be illegal for them to discriminate based on age (in a lot of countries at least).
You can't legally put on your job advert 'No blacks' but if a black guy shows up to the interview you can reject him anyway, say something about him just not being right for the job. For age I'd guess its the same, they can't say they're looking for a 21 year old to train up and have forever but when a 35 year old shows up to the interview (or they see on his CV he was working back in 2000) they can reject him anyway.
It seems to not be illegal to put your age on your CV yourself so...I dunno. Would it be an advantage?
Well, I guess that it's a product of different bussiness cultures. Over here it's almost required to put things in CVs that in other places are big no-nos, like pictures, civil status, etc.
Quote from: ulmont on February 16, 2010, 12:12:35 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 16, 2010, 12:08:53 PM
Well, there's always the multi-state bar; you've still got to take an exam, but at least it isn't the whole shebang.
Try that with Florida* or Louisiana and see how far it gets you.
*While Florida uses the MBE, they have no reciprocity and don't even honor MPRE scores from other jurisdictions.
Same with NJ; the lack of reciprocity is why I want to take my bar in PA.
Quote from: Martinus on February 17, 2010, 06:55:04 AM
I hate people. They put me off(too old, too young, too greedy, too academic, went to a shitty and/or conservative university etc.).
Edited for accuracy. Nothing changed, only removed.
I can put name, gender, age, pic etc on my CV. Though I wouldn't put a pic on it, anyone who would want one for my kind of jobs wouldn't strike me as being very awesome.
Quote from: The Larch on February 17, 2010, 07:43:32 AM
Well, I guess that it's a product of different bussiness cultures. Over here it's almost required to put things in CVs that in other places are big no-nos, like pictures, civil status, etc.
Yes here company's would get in trouble for asking for some of that information.
Same. Don't even ask about age, gender, marital status, or ethnicity (unless as part of an equal opportunity program) or you're potentially in trouble.
Quote from: Neil on February 17, 2010, 07:11:16 AM
And what do you mean 'shitty university'? You went to a shitty university. What's your problem?
Indeed.
Quote from: garbon on February 17, 2010, 04:45:06 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 17, 2010, 07:43:32 AM
Well, I guess that it's a product of different bussiness cultures. Over here it's almost required to put things in CVs that in other places are big no-nos, like pictures, civil status, etc.
Yes here company's would get in trouble for asking for some of that information.
Well, I don't think that most of that information is actually required by the prospective employers, but it's customary for candidates to include them. I guess that some could be omitted with no big fuss made about it, although in some situations some stuff is specifically required, like pictures for some positions. When I applied for my first internship after uni, we were told to, in case of doubt, include everything in our CVs.
Quote from: Barrister on February 17, 2010, 05:00:25 PM
Same. Don't even ask about age, gender, marital status, or ethnicity (unless as part of an equal opportunity program) or you're potentially in trouble.
Can't gender or ethnicity be guessed from the name of the candidate?
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2010, 04:12:19 AM
Can't gender or ethnicity be guessed from the name of the candidate?
Increasingly not.
Quote from: citizen k on February 19, 2010, 04:21:49 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2010, 04:12:19 AM
Can't gender or ethnicity be guessed from the name of the candidate?
Increasingly not.
You anglos and your weird unisex names. :P
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2010, 04:11:00 AM
Well, I don't think that most of that information is actually required by the prospective employers, but it's customary for candidates to include them. I guess that some could be omitted with no big fuss made about it, although in some situations some stuff is specifically required, like pictures for some positions. When I applied for my first internship after uni, we were told to, in case of doubt, include everything in our CVs.
Oh I understand. When I was given examples of how to do CVs for the continent, I was shocked to see people putting on photos and the fact that they were single and unmarried. Which I can see the later making sense if you are applying for a job that'll cause you to relocate.
Even if they don't put their age, its pretty easy to figure out how old or young they are based on their education, years of completion and the length of their work history.