The question came up in another context. For me, at first I thought the answer was "no', but then I remembered that a friend of my dad had confessed to me to murdering a guy during his WW2 service - so, if he wasn't lying, that makes one.
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
Yup. Work related of course. Including an axe murderer. And one who stuck a firecracker up someone's ass after beating him up. Victim bled to death.
i don't know how true or not this is, but my history advisor might have killed someone who she saw beating his girlfriend/wife. i'm going to ask her when i get back home. it's one of those "my friend told me.." cases
I'm sure we'll end up having some arguments about what a "murderer" actually is in this thread, but in perhaps the broadest definition of the word, yes. Both my grandfather and Princesca's great uncle actually personally killed people during WWII--my grandfather was a navigator on a B24 at the beginning of his USAAF service, and participated in bombing raids on German cities. He didn't personally drop any bombs, I don't think, but his actions led to German deaths.
Princesca's great uncle George was in the USMC and personally killed Japanese troops--IIRC he manned a heavy machine gun on Okinawa and has talked about "mowing down Japs". He has a bunch of gold teeth he extracted from dead Japanese, which I think he thinks is really cool but strikes me as really macabre.
Now, if you mean murder in the "civil" context of intentionally causing death to another during peacetime, then no... never known one of those sorts of murderers to the best of my knowledge.
One of Princesca's college boyfriends was the son of a murderer--he actually did hard time for that. I have no idea what the details are and I never met the ex-boyfriend nor his dad.
Not that i know of. Though at the place i work they emmployed a guy who turned out to be a seriel rapist/murder. Apparently cops came here and interviewed people and everything.
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
I assume Malthus meant that he fragged the guy, not killed him in battle.
I never met my relatives from the Bloody Harlan days. :cry:
One of my grandfathers also reportedly killed Germans during the war, directly (and he was shot a couple of times as well). He was a very severe man, though I'm not sure if he was born that way or became that way due to his war experience.
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.
What happened was this.
When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".
I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Quote from: DGuller on December 11, 2009, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
I assume Malthus meant that he fragged the guy, not killed him in battle.
collateral damage :)
One degree of seperation. I know a woman who's father was a college professor and got convicted of killing a bunch of coeds.
Interesting story.
Incedentally the murderers I've known have tended to be dreadfully ordinary. Or at least dreadfully ordinary as far as criminals go.
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 04:08:43 PM
Interesting story.
Incedentally the murderers I've known have tended to be dreadfully ordinary. Or at least dreadfully ordinary as far as criminals go.
:(
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2009, 04:08:16 PM
One degree of seperation. I know a woman who's father was a college professor and got convicted of killing a bunch of coeds.
hott
Quote from: syk on December 11, 2009, 03:56:36 PM
Yup. Work related of course. Including an axe murderer. And one who stuck a firecracker up someone's ass after beating him up. Victim bled to death.
Not a very jolly way to celebrate Victoria Day. :(
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: syk on December 11, 2009, 03:56:36 PM
Yup. Work related of course. Including an axe murderer. And one who stuck a firecracker up someone's ass after beating him up. Victim bled to death.
Not a very jolly way to celebrate Victoria Day. :(
Was New Year's Eve. The victim reportedly was about to rape the murderer's son. The victim was also the murderer's 2nd kill. His first was just beaten down and died "accidently" by breaking his neck in the fall.
I'm fairly sure my grandma's dad participated in some lynchings. Here's a picture of his car in 1924.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ushistory.org%2Fus%2Fimages%2F00003423.jpg&hash=1bb7daa3f48232f34b19616c9b997c5daf1baf45)
There may be a young future US Senator in that pic as well.
He made up for the lynchings with his brave single-handed charge into the Klansmen's square.
I worked, and partied, with this chick for a few month back a couple of years before she skilled the dude; also she was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. I knew the guy too, just barely.
QuoteASTORIA, Ore. -- A jury on Thursday convicted Linda Jean Stangel of second-degree manslaughter for shoving her boyfriend off a 320-foot cliff on the Oregon Coast.
Stangel, 23, of Walker, Minn., put her head down and quietly sobbed after the verdict was read in Clatsop County Circuit Court.
She originally claimed David Wahl, 27, of Tualatin vanished while on a walk at Ecola State Park on Nov. 12, 1995, while she slept in his van.
Stangel later changed her story and confessed to killing Wahl. She said he had tried to scare her with a push on the cliff, and she shoved back, accidentally sending him to his death.
The confession was made to Oregon State Police detectives when they took her back to the park on the Oregon Coast. She later repeated the confession two times.
She then recanted and claimed police forced her to lie.
She was crazy as fuck when I knew her too.
Quote from: sbr on December 11, 2009, 05:16:27 PM
I worked, and partied, with this chick for a few month back a couple of years before she skilled the dude; also she was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. I knew the guy too, just barely.
QuoteASTORIA, Ore. -- A jury on Thursday convicted Linda Jean Stangel of second-degree manslaughter for shoving her boyfriend off a 320-foot cliff on the Oregon Coast.
Stangel, 23, of Walker, Minn., put her head down and quietly sobbed after the verdict was read in Clatsop County Circuit Court.
She originally claimed David Wahl, 27, of Tualatin vanished while on a walk at Ecola State Park on Nov. 12, 1995, while she slept in his van.
Stangel later changed her story and confessed to killing Wahl. She said he had tried to scare her with a push on the cliff, and she shoved back, accidentally sending him to his death.
The confession was made to Oregon State Police detectives when they took her back to the park on the Oregon Coast. She later repeated the confession two times.
She then recanted and claimed police forced her to lie.
She was crazy as fuck when I knew her too.
Now we know what the internet dating posts mean when they say "likes long walks in the park". ;)
Someone in my phys ed class in High School gave birth in the bathroom, and let her baby drown in the toilet during class. Does that count?
Quote from: Queequeg on December 11, 2009, 05:23:49 PM
Someone in my phys ed class in High School gave birth in the bathroom, and let her baby drown in the toilet during class. Does that count?
I assume so - though here in Canada at least, infanticide is treaded legally as different from murder.
I have supervised about 15-20.
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
Is it me or is the Crown awfully soft on murderers?
Yeah, I think so. Though no conviction I also knew the victim. He was terribly annoying. He deserved what he got. :ph34r:
Yes, and became friendly with one. Though he was actually a manslaughterer. Met him through prison-related volunteerism.
Yes, I've known murderers. And they've known my cell phone number.
In the bail business, we called them "clients".
Ditto for me except the bail bonds and cell phone thing. But I've been alone behind closed doors in my office with many violent offenders.
I can't even think of a criminal that I personally know, much less a murderer.
One of my great (or was it great great....I dunno) uncles was in the chindits during the war and so did some pretty damn nasty things that went over and beyond standard war. I only met him a few times though when I was a kid, I remember he had a katana, which was awesome.
Apart from him most of my killing family members died before my time. I don't think any of them could have been counted as full on murderers though.
Quote from: Zanza on December 11, 2009, 07:09:39 PM
I can't even think of a criminal that I personally know, much less a murderer.
Goody Two shoes
Gang members, rapists, thieves...yes...I don't think any of them ever actually succeeded in killing anybody though.
Yeah, I knew a murderer. I think I posted about this before on the old board, but a guy I worked with did a murder-for-hire. I knew him when I was in H.S. and working part-time for the city. There were a couple of the full-time guys who drank a good bit on the job, and eventually they got fired for it. One of the guys was the son of the City Manager who made the decision to let them go (after repeated warnings to them and some of the other employees), so you can see that they had a pretty serious problem. A year or so later, the son and another local drunk (not the same one that lost his job at the same time) were hired to kill a woman by the victim's nephew and his wife, so the she wouldn't inherit any of his grandfather's money. They paid the 2 guys a case of beer to do it. Needless to say, they didn't cover their tracks very well, and when they got caught, immediately ratted out the nephew and his wife. They turned state's evidence, and basically got off with time served.
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.
What happened was this.
When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".
I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Martinus is going to go apeshit when he reads this.
Quote from: Tyr on December 11, 2009, 07:20:15 PM
One of my great (or was it great great....I dunno) uncles was in the chindits during the war and so did some pretty damn nasty things that went over and beyond standard war. I only met him a few times though when I was a kid, I remember he had a katana, which was awesome.
Apart from him most of my killing family members died before my time. I don't think any of them could have been counted as full on murderers though.
Chindits?
he likely thinks it is some sort of gum.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2009, 08:33:12 PM
he likely thinks it is some sort of gum.
Dammit now i want some.
I want to say no, but unsure. I mean the original question.
Quote from: Zanza on December 11, 2009, 07:09:39 PM
I can't even think of a criminal that I personally know, much less a murderer.
Ditto. I came to knowing any criminals was a buddy of mine in Delaware who had gotten a DUI.
A twist to the question: How many registered sex offenders do you know?
I know 1 personally, the brother of one of my friends. No, I won't give a link to his registration on the county website.
Zero.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
A twist to the question: How many registered sex offenders do you know?
I know 1 personally, the brother of one of my friends. No, I won't give a link to his registration on the county website.
None
All the criminals I know are more respectable like drug pushers and muggers.
One of my wife's friends husband was convicted and serverd time for manslaughter related to a drunk driving incident in which someone was killed.
I guess that technically qualifies as "murder"?
None that I know of. Though I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one guy I knew in college turns out to be a serial killer and has dozens of bodies stored in an underground freezer in his backyard.
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2009, 09:11:26 PM
One of my wife's friends husband was convicted and serverd time for manslaughter related to a drunk driving incident in which someone was killed.
I guess that technically qualifies as "murder"?
Not really,
mens rea is lacking.
No sex offenders but I remembered another murderer I knew.
http://www.tdn.com/news/state-and-regional/article_e0fffa3c-9e8c-5391-bb4b-4593e1c86511.html
This guy and I grew up in the same town; we weren't friends but knew each other. He was a pretty well know youth soccer player so I probably "knew" him more than he knew me. We had a class together in high school when he was arrested (not at school). He just disappeared from school, then the rumors started to spread. We knew he killed someone at the ice cream store.
QuoteSALEM — Led by a convicted murderer, members of the Latino inmate club at the Oregon State Correctional Institution are handing out Easter baskets to children visiting loved ones at the Salem prison.
"Everything about it is positive," said club president Pepe Rivas, 34, serving a life term for a murder committed when he was 17.
"To have this occur after the lives that a lot of us have lived is just an incredibly powerful feeling. It's the right feeling."
Rivas and other inmate members put together 95 Easter baskets, filled with chocolate bunnies, jelly beans and more.
The baskets bring smiles to children in the prison visiting room at the medium-security prison.
"There was a need for it," Rivas said.
"We strongly support it," said Levi Bunnell, public information officer at OSCI. "It goes right along with our new Oregon Accountability Model, ultimately trying to reduce recidivism, create less victims and thereby saving the state a whole lot of money. ... One piece of that is keeping inmates close with their families."
About $300 for the project came from sales of inmate artwork. Another $300 came from outside contributions.
For Rivas, who has no children, the project fits with his desire to lead a positive life behind bars. "As far as inmates go, he's a model inmate," Bunnell said. "He doesn't have any disciplinary problems. He's considered, in a good way, to have a leadership-type role."
"When I was in my teens, I was pretty materialistic, selfish, arrogant and angry," he said.
A 1987 murder during a robbery at a Baskin-Robbins ice cream store in Tualatin sent him to prison for life.
Rivas was arrested after his roommate and co-defendant turned himself in.
In prison, Rivas came to grips with what he had done and what he had put his family through.
"I saw the damage I had done to them and the pain I had brought to them," he said.
Rivas works as a prison electrician.
Rivas and other members of the club already are looking ahead to their next project. "We're already brainstorming on what we want to do next," he said.
Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
How about suicides? I can think of one. I was pretty good buddies with the guy in jr. high (he was older). My very first wargaming partner. We played France 1940 while listening to...ABBA! Later he kind of flipped out. Was a hard core stoner, dressed every day in a tie dye shirt, aviator glasses and a little stash bag hanging from his belt. Joined the Marines out of high school and next thing we heard he had blown his brains out.
What about Grallon? Under the right circumstances, he would qualify as a sex offender.
I know a few people capable of it. None of them are stupid enough to tell me about having done so, though.
Yeah, a girl I knew pretty well in high school killed her mom while she (her mom) was asleep. I was actually in her house the day afterward; the chick was acting pretty weird, but at the time I didn't give it much thought, and certainly didn't take it as an indication that there was a dead body in the next room. Freaked me out pretty badly.
Wow, Korea has some hidden depths I wouldn't have guessed.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 11, 2009, 10:57:42 PM
Wow, Korea has some hidden depths I wouldn't have guessed.
Tim has the zinger.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 11, 2009, 10:57:42 PM
Wow, Korea has some hidden depths I wouldn't have guessed.
Oh ha ha ha. <_<
Ide threatened to murder me once.
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Sad story. :(
But, if he confessed it so many times I'm surprised no one ever reported him for it. In fact that may have been what he was looking for by confessing over and over like that. :unsure:
sex offenders - check. work related.
suicides - check. work related and in private. maternal grandfather shot himself.
A guy in my high school class hanged himself a few days before graduation. His little sister found him. Pretty sad.
Does knowing a guy who ordered a hit count?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2009, 09:37:52 PM
How about suicides?
Yeah, but I don't really want to talk about it.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 12, 2009, 02:18:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Sad story. :(
But, if he confessed it so many times I'm surprised no one ever reported him for it. In fact that may have been what he was looking for by confessing over and over like that. :unsure:
What's so sad about this story, exactly? Other than the fact that noone cared enough to bring a gaybashing murderer to justice, of course.
Quotehe'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted
Do we know for a fact that he didn't survive?
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.
What happened was this.
When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".
I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Isn't there a legal (not to mention, moral) obligation in Canada to report crimes, at least the more serious ones? Or do you think that murdering a gay guy because he hit on you is alright and you felt sorry for the murderer?
Quote from: Neil on December 11, 2009, 08:10:31 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.
What happened was this.
When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".
I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Martinus is going to go apeshit when he reads this.
Your prediction is motherfucking correct.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 11, 2009, 09:37:52 PM
How about suicides? I can think of one. I was pretty good buddies with the guy in jr. high (he was older). My very first wargaming partner. We played France 1940 while listening to...ABBA! Later he kind of flipped out. Was a hard core stoner, dressed every day in a tie dye shirt, aviator glasses and a little stash bag hanging from his belt. Joined the Marines out of high school and next thing we heard he had blown his brains out.
I knew two guys who committed suicide. One was one of my best childhood friends - although in his case I'd say it was more a case of "delirious self-killing" than suicide, if it makes sense.
Martinus, I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about this. The guy wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed to cover up the assault.
Quote from: DGuller on December 12, 2009, 05:14:28 AM
Martinus, I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about this. The guy wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed to cover up the assault.
I don't have patience for "gay panic" bullshit. I'm incensed by the fact that while most people, in theory, accept that gay panic defense is bullshit, in practice, they become sympathetic or at least understanding when it is being cited - like, implicitly, Malthus and Tim have done in the way they retold/reacted to the story.
The guy is a cold-blooded murder. He murdered an innocent, unconscious person because he was "disgusted" with being an object of sexual advances from another man. I don't have an ounce of pity for that bastard, yet Timmy finds it "sad" that the guy is still feeling remorse. Well, he shouldn't be feeling remorse - he should be feeling a needle from a lethal injection.
I will continue being "so up in arms" every time I encounter anyone coming from a "Yes, but" (either explicitly or implicitly) position when it comes to a "gay panic" situation.
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:31:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.
A fora? I know you're an immigrant but can't you at least try to learn English?
Anyway, would a court convict the guy on an unsubstantiated confession (non-rhetorical)? Reasonable doubt is all over the place.
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2009, 05:35:02 AM
A fora? I know you're an immigrant but can't you at least try to learn English?
I'd gladly throw you off a ship. :)
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2009, 05:35:02 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:31:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.
A fora? I know you're an immigrant but can't you at least try to learn English?
Anyway, would a court convict the guy on an unsubstantiated confession (non-rhetorical)? Reasonable doubt is all over the place.
So a person shouldn't report a crime to the police unless he or she has a complete proof sufficient for conviction?
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:51:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2009, 05:35:02 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:31:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.
A fora? I know you're an immigrant but can't you at least try to learn English?
Anyway, would a court convict the guy on an unsubstantiated confession (non-rhetorical)? Reasonable doubt is all over the place.
So a person shouldn't report a crime to the police unless he or she has a complete proof sufficient for conviction?
I don't think you're being shrill enough. Please take a shrill pill.
I only know a pistol suicide. But, he was also the only child raping paedophile I know. I'm just annoyed he didn't kill himself earlier and in a more slow and painful manner.
Two of the suicides I prevented:
1) Girl, ~20 years old. Lost her job, boyfriend left her, her dog was run over by a car. She just lay down on the street to be run over herself. Someone called an ambulance and she was shipped to the psych ward. Was still busy with the paperwork she caused when I had a bad feeling and checked her room. She was dangling from the ceiling, hung on her pants. She had one leg tied to some water supply thingy and the other around her neck. Quite the movie situation, given her blue face and the "hurr hurr" sounds. Held her up until help was there. Emergency procedure, tube down her throat, O2 and off to intensive care.
She came back 2 weeks later and killed herself first time she could leave the ward unsupervided. Hung herself in the woods.
2) Overweight rocker type man in his 40s. Claimed he was a pedophile, never did anything to anyone so far though and was dead frightened he would hurt someone with his deviant urges. Obviously he didn't get the help he was hoping for. Found him while he was busy cutting open both his wrists with broken single use razors. Wrong way of course. Must have taken a while as both wounds were deep enough to completely put a small finger in there. Happened on Christmas Eve. Nasty bloodloss, too. Tried to stop the bleeding with towels until help arrived, again the afforementioned emergency team. Shipped him off to emergency care as well. Took a while to clean up the mess. I have no clue what became of him.
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Two of the suicides I prevented:
Tell us about the suicides you didn't prevent.
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Two of the suicides I prevented:
1) Girl, ~20 years old. Lost her job, boyfriend left her, her dog was run over by a car. She just lay down on the street to be run over herself. Someone called an ambulance and she was shipped to the psych ward. Was still busy with the paperwork she caused when I had a bad feeling and checked her room. She was dangling from the ceiling, hung on her pants. She had one leg tied to some water supply thingy and the other around her neck. Quite the movie situation, given her blue face and the "hurr hurr" sounds. Held her up until help was there. Emergency procedure, tube down her throat, O2 and off to intensive care.
She came back 2 weeks later and killed herself first time she could leave the ward unsupervided. Hung herself in the woods.
Was she ever treated for depression?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 12, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Two of the suicides I prevented:
Tell us about the suicides you didn't prevent.
Maybe in 30 years I'll tell a 10th grader.
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 01:16:54 PM
Maybe in 30 years I'll tell a 10th grader.
Save the assisted suicides for them.
Quote from: DGuller on December 12, 2009, 01:09:25 PM
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Two of the suicides I prevented:
1) Girl, ~20 years old. Lost her job, boyfriend left her, her dog was run over by a car. She just lay down on the street to be run over herself. Someone called an ambulance and she was shipped to the psych ward. Was still busy with the paperwork she caused when I had a bad feeling and checked her room. She was dangling from the ceiling, hung on her pants. She had one leg tied to some water supply thingy and the other around her neck. Quite the movie situation, given her blue face and the "hurr hurr" sounds. Held her up until help was there. Emergency procedure, tube down her throat, O2 and off to intensive care.
She came back 2 weeks later and killed herself first time she could leave the ward unsupervided. Hung herself in the woods.
Was she ever treated for depression?
Afaik only in the time between the attempted suicide and her death. Too short a time for the antidepressants to even kick in.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 12, 2009, 01:17:30 PM
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 01:16:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 12, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: syk on December 12, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Two of the suicides I prevented:
Tell us about the suicides you didn't prevent.
Maybe in 30 years I'll tell a 10th grader.
Bor-ring.
To tell the truth, since my exams nobody ever died during my shifts but one woman. And she didn't kill herself, she died from a lung tumor the size of a man's fist. Gave up on CPR after 45 mins. Was a sunny day and she died with a smile on her face.
I knew a registered sex offender as a friend of a friend, talked to him at a few parties. He, unsuprisingly, didn't bring it up, and I only realized it months later when I searched one of those websites out of curiosity.
Oh and I guess I had another friend-of-friends sex offender acquaintance in college who was busted with a child porn cache.
Only one suicide, thank god, a distant acquaintance, but I did see him staggering drunk at a party the night before he OD'd on pills.
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 04:51:47 AM
Or do you think that murdering a gay guy because he hit on you is alright and you felt sorry for the murderer?
This.
Murderer: Rusty Channon - killed a guy with his truck by pinning him to garage door and crushing him. I grew up with him, and in fact, he once had a huge crush on my little sister. I think he was 20 or 21 when he killed the guy. He was paroled a few years ago.
Suicides: My cousin, whom you all know about, committed suicide by cop a couple of years ago. A very dear friend of mine stuck a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger two weeks before my 15th birthday. I'd stopped her killing herself several times before and talked to a school counselor about getting her help. Apparently, she convinced them she was fine, and they left her alone.
Pedophiles: My sister's boyfriend was convicted of molesting my niece seven years ago. My niece was five. Yes, my sister is still dating him. He got help, after all, so he's fine now. :mellow:
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
Pedophiles: My sister's boyfriend was convicted of molesting my niece seven years ago. My niece was five. Yes, my sister is still dating him. He got help, after all, so he's fine now. :mellow:
WHAT THE FUCK
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 12, 2009, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
Pedophiles: My sister's boyfriend was convicted of molesting my niece seven years ago. My niece was five. Yes, my sister is still dating him. He got help, after all, so he's fine now. :mellow:
WHAT THE FUCK
Yeah, kind of our reaction, too.
Both him and your sister need a good beating. Might knock some sense into them.
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2009, 05:54:49 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:51:36 AM
So a person shouldn't report a crime to the police unless he or she has a complete proof sufficient for conviction?
I don't think you're being shrill enough. Please take a shrill pill.
:lmfao:
Fuck you, Brain, if that keyboard doesn't work anymore after I just sprayed water all over it from my nose when reading this post! :ultra:
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2009, 07:16:35 PM
Fuck you, Brain,
I do need a good fuck. It's been a while.
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:18:56 AM
I don't have patience for "gay panic" bullshit. I'm incensed by the fact that while most people, in theory, accept that gay panic defense is bullshit, in practice, they become sympathetic or at least understanding when it is being cited - like, implicitly, Malthus and Tim have done in the way they retold/reacted to the story.
The guy is a cold-blooded murder. He murdered an innocent, unconscious person because he was "disgusted" with being an object of sexual advances from another man. I don't have an ounce of pity for that bastard, yet Timmy finds it "sad" that the guy is still feeling remorse. Well, he shouldn't be feeling remorse - he should be feeling a needle from a lethal injection.
I will continue being "so up in arms" every time I encounter anyone coming from a "Yes, but" (either explicitly or implicitly) position when it comes to a "gay panic" situation.
Whaa whaa whaaa
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
Don't forget that the murder happened 40 years earlier, and the person being told the story is 16 years old.
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:23:03 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 12, 2009, 05:21:05 AM
Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.
Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?
If somebody confesses he murdered somebody during World War II? I would probably think 'well who didn't?'
Seriously if an old member of your family confessed he killed somebody during WWII you would call the cops and send the dude to prison?
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2009, 08:46:11 PM
Seriously if an old member of your family confessed he killed somebody during WWII you would call the cops and send the dude to prison?
Martinus was raised to do whatever the commisars would do. :)
I knew a former classmate who killed himself when we were 20. The ostensible cause was that he received a $500 parking ticket from the police. The headline in one paper was something like "Man, 20, kills himself after receiving parking ticket." Kind of sad to have your last tragic deed produce snickers among strangers like that.
To this day I'm not 100% sure what the actual cause was, although I suspect he may have been a homosexual. His parents were extremely conservative Asian immigrants.
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2009, 08:46:11 PMSeriously if an old member of your family confessed he killed somebody during WWII you would call the cops and send the dude to prison?
You are changing parameters of the question here - when "a guy I barely know" has become an "old member of your family"?
If it was an old member of my family, then I wouldn't probably rat on him or her (but it wouldn't be automatic - the fact that he is a family member would be weighed against the gravity of the crime, remorse, etc.). If it was some more or less stranger dude saying that, say, he murdered a Jew during WWII to get his money, I would probably call the cops.
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
Murderer: Rusty Channon - killed a guy with his truck by pinning him to garage door and crushing him. I grew up with him, and in fact, he once had a huge crush on my little sister. I think he was 20 or 21 when he killed the guy. He was paroled a few years ago.
Suicides: My cousin, whom you all know about, committed suicide by cop a couple of years ago. A very dear friend of mine stuck a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger two weeks before my 15th birthday. I'd stopped her killing herself several times before and talked to a school counselor about getting her help. Apparently, she convinced them she was fine, and they left her alone.
Pedophiles: My sister's boyfriend was convicted of molesting my niece seven years ago. My niece was five. Yes, my sister is still dating him. He got help, after all, so he's fine now. :mellow:
Merri, as I said before, your family is fun. :lol:
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
I'd bring a life preserver.
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
Any survivors of the real-life flame war would be eaten by katmai and Jaron.
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2009, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 12, 2009, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 12, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
Pedophiles: My sister's boyfriend was convicted of molesting my niece seven years ago. My niece was five. Yes, my sister is still dating him. He got help, after all, so he's fine now. :mellow:
WHAT THE FUCK
Yeah, kind of our reaction, too.
DCYF or whatever the state org of Ohio that handles children is okay with that?
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
Exciting and new adventures!
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
There's already a game like that.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2F2nkj1x0.jpg&hash=eaabd4180ccb5c5549131a793c0a0203428515b7)
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
:w00t:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 13, 2009, 09:33:17 AM
DCYF or whatever the state org of Ohio that handles children is okay with that?
He was on probation for five years, during which time he wasn't allowed contact with the girls. (Which was fine, because my dad was alive during that time, and he would have shot both the boyfriend and my sister if he'd known that the girls were anywhere near the guy.) After his five years of probation and weekly therapy sessions were over, he was registered as a sex offender and allowed contact with the girls again.
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 04:51:47 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 11, 2009, 03:53:57 PM
Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.
For me it depends on what you mean by "personally". I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.
No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.
What happened was this.
When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".
I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.
Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.
Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.
Isn't there a legal (not to mention, moral) obligation in Canada to report crimes, at least the more serious ones? Or do you think that murdering a gay guy because he hit on you is alright and you felt sorry for the murderer?
I was in grade 10 at the time. My main reaction was to wonder why the hell he was telling me this stuff.
It never occurred to me to go to the cops. For one, at the time I was a grade 10 stoner and he was a respected elderly professor. For another, what exactly could I tell them - that this guy told me of some disturbing stuff he'd done, murdering a man in world war 2? There would be exacly zero proof of any crime except some kid's second-hand account, and that of something that happened a very long time ago. Even if I'd reported it, I hardly imagine anything would have been accomplished.
If it makes you feel any better, the reason why he killed the guy made no difference whatsoever to my not reporting him.
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2009, 05:18:56 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 12, 2009, 05:14:28 AM
Martinus, I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about this. The guy wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed to cover up the assault.
I don't have patience for "gay panic" bullshit. I'm incensed by the fact that while most people, in theory, accept that gay panic defense is bullshit, in practice, they become sympathetic or at least understanding when it is being cited - like, implicitly, Malthus and Tim have done in the way they retold/reacted to the story.
The guy is a cold-blooded murder. He murdered an innocent, unconscious person because he was "disgusted" with being an object of sexual advances from another man. I don't have an ounce of pity for that bastard, yet Timmy finds it "sad" that the guy is still feeling remorse. Well, he shouldn't be feeling remorse - he should be feeling a needle from a lethal injection.
I will continue being "so up in arms" every time I encounter anyone coming from a "Yes, but" (either explicitly or implicitly) position when it comes to a "gay panic" situation.
I'm in no way sympathetic. What difference does it make why the two got into a fight? I'd feel exaclty the same if the future prof hit the other guy over a girlfriend.
Just ignore him, that's what I did, he'll believe what he wants to believe and there's not much we can do about it.
The sympathy is because he clearly is not a man who would ordinarily be capable of murder, but overreacted (it was a very different time), and accidently killed a fellow human being. He was probably very young, panicked, and tossed the body overboard.
He hardly needs to be classified with Manson.
Way I understood it was that it there was, at first, no serious intention to kill - the guy made a pass (allegedly) and the future prof punched him. The punch knocked the other guy into a bulkhead (I suppose on a cramped ship, that's easy to do) and stunned him.
The murder part was in tossing him overboard. He did that purely to save himself from punishment for the fight. That's akin I suppose to a guy who shoots a clerk after robbing a store, so the clerk can't identify him. It's a cowardly and dispicable thing to have done, and it isn't surprising the fellow felt a lot of guilt over it, even forty years later.
Marty is angry about the wrong thing. He's up in arms about the reason for the punch, which is quite irrelevant - the actual murder was not the punch, it was tossing the guy overboard. The punch could have been thrown for any reason - a fight over a woman, or cards, or what-have-you. The future prof tossed the other fellow overborad not because he was gay, but to cover up his own crime in fighting with him.
Quote from: Malthus on December 13, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
Marty is angry about the wrong thing.
I haven't been here long but that doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence. :D
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2009, 09:25:49 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
Any survivors of the real-life flame war would be eaten by katmai and Jaron.
Uh Syt is the cannibal here.
Quote from: katmai on December 13, 2009, 07:47:25 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2009, 09:25:49 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
Any survivors of the real-life flame war would be eaten by katmai and Jaron.
Uh Syt is the cannibal here.
Ok Syt would eat everybody and use you and Jaron as rafts.
Quote from: sbr on December 13, 2009, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 13, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
Marty is angry about the wrong thing.
I haven't been here long but that doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence. :D
Who the fuck are you? Another sock?
Quote from: Martinus on December 14, 2009, 02:54:29 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 13, 2009, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 13, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
Marty is angry about the wrong thing.
I haven't been here long but that doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence. :D
Who the fuck are you? Another sock?
Sweet Jebus you really don't pay attention do you?
Not really, no.
I don't think I do.
I do know a couple of suicides.
Don't know any murderers or sex offenders. Mother of one of my best friends commited suicide recently (she had first studied to become a psychologist and then to become a psychiatrist but presumably never found what she was looking for).
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 03:41:48 PM
The question came up in another context. For me, at first I thought the answer was "no', but then I remembered that a friend of my dad had confessed to me to murdering a guy during his WW2 service - so, if he wasn't lying, that makes one.
Unsure...
I've know guys affiliated with the Hell's Angels, but they weren't "full patch", so it's not official that they killed anyone at this point. Beating people up and putting them in a coma, check.
Stealing and beating old ladies, check.
Dealing drugs on large scale, check.
Enforcing drug sale territory, check.
Prostitution, check.
But murder, I don't think so. Not that it would necessarly change my opinion of the guys. It really depend on whom was killed.
Quote from: viper37 on December 14, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 11, 2009, 03:41:48 PM
The question came up in another context. For me, at first I thought the answer was "no', but then I remembered that a friend of my dad had confessed to me to murdering a guy during his WW2 service - so, if he wasn't lying, that makes one.
Unsure...
I've know guys affiliated with the Hell's Angels, but they weren't "full patch", so it's not official that they killed anyone at this point. Beating people up and putting them in a coma, check.
Stealing and beating old ladies, check.
Dealing drugs on large scale, check.
Enforcing drug sale territory, check.
Prostitution, check.
But murder, I don't think so. Not that it would necessarly change my opinion of the guys. It really depend on whom was killed.
I've always found the tv documentaries on the Hell's Angels up in Quebec fascinating.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 14, 2009, 04:26:43 PM
I've always found the tv documentaries on the Hell's Angels up in Quebec fascinating.
Yeah, for some reason you let the Italians do it for you, while we take matter into our own hands :P
Been reading through the thread... Of course, I knew people who commited suicide. Someone I knew very well, after an accident that left him with diminished mental capacities (fell from a horse and was run over).
And I known a guy, he used to date my aunt, he got stoned and he drank, and he took his truck, and he got chased by cops, and he sped... and he killed 2 people in a car accident and seriously wounded a kid in the car (whose mother and sister got killed). I knew one of the girl, I was in high school with her. Nice girl. Her mom was nice too. Didn't know her young sister though.
The guy was a weirdo. Of course I'd say anyone who do drugs is a weirdo ;) but even among that crowd, he was a weirdo and borderline dangerous/insane (my aunt always seems to have great taste in men :rolleyes: ).
But he prevented me from doing a huge mistake at one point in my life, and I'll be forever grateful to him for that.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
A twist to the question: How many registered sex offenders do you know?
0.
Then again, I don't think that thing exists here (for public view, I'm sure of it, but I do not know if the cops have their own registry; I think we consider hunters to be more dangerous than rapists or pedophiles ;) ).
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 12, 2009, 02:18:04 AM
But, if he confessed it so many times I'm surprised no one ever reported him for it. In fact that may have been what he was looking for by confessing over and over like that. :unsure:
Well, it's kinda tough to report such a crime. "He told me he killed someone in WWII". No name, no time, no specific place (ok, onboard a ship on the Atlantic). The cops could interrogate him, but if he denies it and claims he made up that story, without a body and 40 years ago there's no way he's gonna be charged with anything.
Quote from: viper37 on December 14, 2009, 04:38:58 PM
0.
Then again, I don't think that thing exists here (for public view, I'm sure of it, but I do not know if the cops have their own registry; I think we consider hunters to be more dangerous than rapists or pedophiles ;) ).
I was going to say, does Montreal actually have any sex laws for people to break?
edit: I meant Quebec of course. Stop twisting my words.
Quote from: Neil on December 13, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
This thread makes me think: How would Languish feel if I were to buy out a cruise liner and take you all on a trans-Atlantic cruise?
Marty should be worried?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 14, 2009, 04:46:19 PM
I was going to say, does Montreal actually have any sex laws for people to break?
edit: I meant Quebec of course. Stop twisting my words.
Criminal code is handled by Ottawa ;)
There is no minimum sentencing for most crimes, there is a bill to be voted in 2010 that if it pass will put a minimum sentence for sex offenses (raping of adults and kids). The Bloc Québécois is of course against this, but all other parties are in favour.
As far as sex laws goes... well, even if there's a registry you won't be put on it for sleeping with a prostitute, and no 18 y.o. will be on it for sleeping with his 15 yo girlfriend.
And I kinda like how the laws are now, even though sometimes I think the age of consent for gay sex should be higher.
I suggest 200 of your Earth years.
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sptimes.com%2F2006%2F01%2F12%2Fimages%2Flarge%2FA_7_7Acourt_FLOCA1_0112.jpg&hash=f6c407055873388f8ba15992f97f7346d1da8107)
Yes, but what about in your professional life?
Quote from: Stonewall on December 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
Any particular reason, or were campers just in season?
Quote from: Malthus on December 15, 2009, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on December 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
Any particular reason, or were campers just in season?
Were the "campers" actually gypsies, and had previously stolen his dingo?
If so, buy him a beer.
Quote from: viper37 on December 14, 2009, 04:53:00 PM
There is no minimum sentencing for most crimes, there is a bill to be voted in 2010 that if it pass will put a minimum sentence for sex offenses (raping of adults and kids). The Bloc Québécois is of course against this, but all other parties are in favour.
I can't imagine why anyone would be in favour of such a thing.
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be in favour of such a thing.
You are being sarcastic or you are actually defending the Bloc's position?
Minimum sentences are a cheap political trick to try and show you are Tough on Crime TM. Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
Yay, let's have the Swedish sucking machine judge and his equivalents making shit up as they go along.
Quote from: The Brain on December 15, 2009, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
Yay, let's have the Swedish sucking machine judge and his equivalents making shit up as they go along.
That sounds like a problem in the way judges get put onto the bench in Sweden. I would rather have someone who has devoted his career to the law to determine sentencing than someone who has devoted his career to getting re-elected.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 15, 2009, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
Yay, let's have the Swedish sucking machine judge and his equivalents making shit up as they go along.
That sounds like a problem in the way judges get put onto the bench in Sweden. I would rather have someone who has devoted his career to the law to determine sentencing than someone who has devoted his career to getting re-elected.
The Swedish part refers to the sucking machine, not the judge.
Quote from: The Brain on December 15, 2009, 12:14:40 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 15, 2009, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
Yay, let's have the Swedish sucking machine judge and his equivalents making shit up as they go along.
That sounds like a problem in the way judges get put onto the bench in Sweden. I would rather have someone who has devoted his career to the law to determine sentencing than someone who has devoted his career to getting re-elected.
The Swedish part refers to the sucking machine, not the judge.
I don't know what a sucking machine is, of any nationality. :Embarrass:
I have never known anybody that have committed murder.
Canada is weak in dealing with criminals.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Minimum sentences are a cheap political trick to try and show you are Tough on Crime TM. Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
that would work nice if the judges were giving pedophiles more than 3 years in jail for raping a child. Or if they weren't considering the anal sex like a mitigating factor given the preservation of virginity on the child.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:50:01 PM
I don't know what a sucking machine is, of any nationality. :Embarrass:
A vacuum cleaner.
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2009, 01:22:37 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Minimum sentences are a cheap political trick to try and show you are Tough on Crime TM. Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
that would work nice if the judges were giving pedophiles more than 3 years in jail for raping a child. Or if they weren't considering the anal sex like a mitigating factor given the preservation of virginity on the child.
Then you need new judges or new laws, that don't involve minimum sentences. When you set minimum sentences you end up with a 17 year old boy spending 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. My problem is that the minimum sentences don't give the judge ANY leeway in sentencing, they are the experts in deciding the law, the legislators are the "experts" (used very loosely) in writing the laws.
Quote from: Maximus on December 15, 2009, 01:37:41 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:50:01 PM
I don't know what a sucking machine is, of any nationality. :Embarrass:
A vacuum cleaner.
Oh. :Embarrass:
I guess I don't know how vacuum cleaners relate to the discussion; must be a Euro thing.
The Brain: What do you perceive to be the problem with the Swedish legal system, exactly?
Quote from: Pat on December 15, 2009, 02:08:00 PM
The Brain: What do you perceive to be the problem with the Swedish legal system, exactly?
What do you mean? The sucking machine judge was American IIRC.
Ah, nvm ;)
America sucks. Gettit?
I don't think America sucks.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2009, 01:22:37 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Minimum sentences are a cheap political trick to try and show you are Tough on Crime TM. Let the judges determine criminals' sentences, not legislators.
that would work nice if the judges were giving pedophiles more than 3 years in jail for raping a child. Or if they weren't considering the anal sex like a mitigating factor given the preservation of virginity on the child.
Then you need new judges or new laws, that don't involve minimum sentences. When you set minimum sentences you end up with a 17 year old boy spending 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. My problem is that the minimum sentences don't give the judge ANY leeway in sentencing, they are the experts in deciding the law, the legislators are the "experts" (used very loosely) in writing the laws.
The problem there is with having laws that make it criminal for a 17-year old boy having consenual sex with a 16-year old girl in the first place, not with having minimum sentencing.
Quote from: Malthus on December 15, 2009, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on December 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
Any particular reason, or were campers just in season?
I think it was more a matter of they just happened to be the people he came across. It was textbook random act of violence done for no real reason other than that he could.
Quote from: Stonewall on December 15, 2009, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 15, 2009, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on December 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
Any particular reason, or were campers just in season?
I think it was more a matter of they just happened to be the people he came across. It was textbook random act of violence done for no real reason other than that he could.
Did you get him off?
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be in favour of such a thing.
You are being sarcastic or you are actually defending the Bloc's position?
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I thought you wanted most criminals to be executed?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2009, 08:16:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be in favour of such a thing.
You are being sarcastic or you are actually defending the Bloc's position?
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I thought you wanted most criminals to be executed?
So?
It is the job of judges to impose sentences as appropriate. If a judge imposes inappropriate sentences, then he should be fired (and possibly executed).
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 15, 2009, 08:16:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be in favour of such a thing.
You are being sarcastic or you are actually defending the Bloc's position?
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I thought you wanted most criminals to be executed?
So?
It is the job of judges to impose sentences as appropriate. If a judge imposes inappropriate sentences, then he should be fired (and possibly executed).
:lol:
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
It is the job of judges to impose sentences as appropriate. If a judge imposes inappropriate sentences, then he should be fired (and possibly executed).
:yes:
Quote from: DGuller on December 15, 2009, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on December 15, 2009, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 15, 2009, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on December 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
I know a dozen or so. The most interesting of whom was this guy. Went into the woods, and killed 2 campers with an AK-47.
Any particular reason, or were campers just in season?
I think it was more a matter of they just happened to be the people he came across. It was textbook random act of violence done for no real reason other than that he could.
Did you get him off?
We considered life in prison in lieu of the death penalty a victory.
Quote from: Stonewall on December 16, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
We considered life in prison in lieu of the death penalty a victory.
At least your client didn't aim low.
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
Then you need new judges or new laws, that don't involve minimum sentences. When you set minimum sentences you end up with a 17 year old boy spending 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. My problem is that the minimum sentences don't give the judge ANY leeway in sentencing, they are the experts in deciding the law, the legislators are the "experts" (used very loosely) in writing the laws.
No, you can't have 17 yr old boy spending 5 yrs in prison for that. Legal age of consent is 16, and for 14-16 a tolerance of 5 years is applied. Meaning a 19y.o. with a 14 y.o. is ok.
We're talking real rape here, and real pedophiles.
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I became a Conservative supporter. And Neil became a Bloc supporter. Who would have though this possible? :D
Quote from: viper37 on December 17, 2009, 07:59:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I became a Conservative supporter. And Neil became a Bloc supporter. Who would have though this possible? :D
Perhaps the Bloc became Neil supporters.
At any rate, my position has long been that mandatory sentencing is utterly without merit. If one cannot trust a judge to impose a sentence that is within the sphere of what is appropriate, then that judge should simply be removed from the bench.
Quote from: Neil on December 17, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 17, 2009, 07:59:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I became a Conservative supporter. And Neil became a Bloc supporter. Who would have though this possible? :D
Perhaps the Bloc became Neil supporters.
At any rate, my position has long been that mandatory sentencing is utterly without merit. If one cannot trust a judge to impose a sentence that is within the sphere of what is appropriate, then that judge should simply be removed from the bench.
Agreed. Take it too much further, and you might as well do away with judges altogether. Let some crazy judge hand out 5-day sentences to murderers...that's what mobs with pitchforks are for.
Quote from: viper37 on December 17, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
Then you need new judges or new laws, that don't involve minimum sentences. When you set minimum sentences you end up with a 17 year old boy spending 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. My problem is that the minimum sentences don't give the judge ANY leeway in sentencing, they are the experts in deciding the law, the legislators are the "experts" (used very loosely) in writing the laws.
No, you can't have 17 yr old boy spending 5 yrs in prison for that. Legal age of consent is 16, and for 14-16 a tolerance of 5 years is applied. Meaning a 19y.o. with a 14 y.o. is ok.
We're talking real rape here, and real pedophiles.
My example is something I pulled out of my ass, based on my mis-remembering of this case.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/26/wilson.freed/index.html
QuoteGenarlow Wilson was released from prison Friday, after spending more than two years behind bars for a teen sex conviction.
"I've got a new life," Genarlow Wilson tells reporters after being released Friday.
"At times I dealt with adversity ... my family and myself, we finally get to deal with happiness now," Wilson said, with his mother and sister at his side.
The Georgia Supreme Court earlier Friday ordered that he be released, ruling 4-3 that his sentence was cruel and unusual punishment.
Wilson, 21, was convicted in 2005 of having oral sex with a consenting 15-year-old girl when he was 17.
A 17 year old was sentenced to 10 years in prison for having consensual oral sex with a 15 year old in the state of Georgia. He was eventually freed after serving 2.
These minimum sentencing laws always start out being about "real rape" and "real pedophiles", but next thing you know something like that happens because we have let the legislators do the judges' jobs.
Quote from: Neil on December 17, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 17, 2009, 07:59:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
The Bloc is defending my position. Mandatory sentencing is evil.
I became a Conservative supporter. And Neil became a Bloc supporter. Who would have though this possible? :D
Perhaps the Bloc became Neil supporters.
At any rate, my position has long been that mandatory sentencing is utterly without merit. If one cannot trust a judge to impose a sentence that is within the sphere of what is appropriate, then that judge should simply be removed from the bench.
There is no constitutional way to remove a judge for giving a low sentence.
Hence the need for mandatory minimums.
Quote from: sbr on December 17, 2009, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 17, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 15, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
Then you need new judges or new laws, that don't involve minimum sentences. When you set minimum sentences you end up with a 17 year old boy spending 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. My problem is that the minimum sentences don't give the judge ANY leeway in sentencing, they are the experts in deciding the law, the legislators are the "experts" (used very loosely) in writing the laws.
No, you can't have 17 yr old boy spending 5 yrs in prison for that. Legal age of consent is 16, and for 14-16 a tolerance of 5 years is applied. Meaning a 19y.o. with a 14 y.o. is ok.
We're talking real rape here, and real pedophiles.
My example is something I pulled out of my ass, based on my mis-remembering of this case.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/26/wilson.freed/index.html
QuoteGenarlow Wilson was released from prison Friday, after spending more than two years behind bars for a teen sex conviction.
"I've got a new life," Genarlow Wilson tells reporters after being released Friday.
"At times I dealt with adversity ... my family and myself, we finally get to deal with happiness now," Wilson said, with his mother and sister at his side.
The Georgia Supreme Court earlier Friday ordered that he be released, ruling 4-3 that his sentence was cruel and unusual punishment.
Wilson, 21, was convicted in 2005 of having oral sex with a consenting 15-year-old girl when he was 17.
A 17 year old was sentenced to 10 years in prison for having consensual oral sex with a 15 year old in the state of Georgia. He was eventually freed after serving 2.
These minimum sentencing laws always start out being about "real rape" and "real pedophiles", but next thing you know something like that happens because we have let the legislators do the judges' jobs.
Again, the problem isn't with mandatory sentencing; the problem is that what he did shouldn't have been criminal in the first place (assuming that it was consenual, etc.).