Have you Ever Personally Known a Murderer?

[syk]

sex offenders - check. work related.
suicides - check. work related and in private. maternal grandfather shot himself.

[Zanza]

A guy in my high school class hanged himself a few days before graduation. His little sister found him. Pretty sad.

[DGuller]

Does knowing a guy who ordered a hit count?

[dps]

How about suicides? 

Yeah, but I don't really want to talk about it.

[Martinus]

Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.

Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.

Sad story. 

But, if he confessed it so many times I'm surprised no one ever reported him for it. In fact that may have been what he was looking for by confessing over and over like that.

What's so sad about this story, exactly? Other than the fact that noone cared enough to bring a gaybashing murderer to justice, of course.

[The Brain]

he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted

Do we know for a fact that he didn't survive?

[Martinus]

Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.

For me it depends on what you mean by "personally".  I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.

No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.

What happened was this.

When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".

I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.

Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.

Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.

Isn't there a legal (not to mention, moral) obligation in Canada to report crimes, at least the more serious ones? Or do you think that murdering a gay guy because he hit on you is alright and you felt sorry for the murderer?

[Martinus]

Well that would make him a killer, but not a murderer.

For me it depends on what you mean by "personally".  I've dealt with several in court, even had brief conversations.

No, he confessed to murder - not killing in the line of duty.

What happened was this.

When I was in grade 10, my biology class teacher assigned us the project of interviewing a real-life scientist. This was easy for me, because my dad was a scientist. Of course I thought it would be lame beyond words to interview my own dad, so I asked him to recommend someone he knew to interview. He recommended a fellow who was a teacher of his many years ago - a guy on the verge of retirement, who he said was "quite a character".

I went to interview this guy, and he was, indeed, quite a character. We hit it off very well (of course he knew my dad well), and we ended up talking for hours.

Somehow, the topic of his WW2 service came up - he had been a volunteer in the Canadian navy, serving on the ships escorting convoys across the Atlantic. He talked about this for a while, then for some reason I do not understand he told me that, while serving on the ships, he'd killed a man. Allegedly he thought the other fellow was making a sexual advance to him, so he'd hit him - knocking his head against the steel bulkhead. In a panic, he'd pushed the unconcious guy overboard. It was at night in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic, and he wasn't spotted. The guy was reported missing and that was that.

Well, this was more than a bit freaky, and certainly not what one could report for a grade 10 biology project. I asked my dad about it and he said that yes, he'd heard that story before. Apparently, sort of like the ancient mariner, he had this urge to confess his crime over and over again. His guilt must have been consuming him all those years.

Martinus is going to go apeshit when he reads this.

Your prediction is motherfucking correct.

[Martinus]

How about suicides?  I can think of one.  I was pretty good buddies with the guy in jr. high (he was older).  My very first wargaming partner.  We played France 1940 while listening to...ABBA!  Later he kind of flipped out.  Was a hard core stoner, dressed every day in a tie dye shirt, aviator glasses and a little stash bag hanging from his belt.  Joined the Marines out of high school and next thing we heard he had blown his brains out.

I knew two guys who committed suicide. One was one of my best childhood friends - although in his case I'd say it was more a case of "delirious self-killing" than suicide, if it makes sense.

[DGuller]

Martinus, I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about this.  The guy wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed to cover up the assault.

[Martinus]

Martinus, I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about this.  The guy wasn't killed because he was gay, he was killed to cover up the assault.

I don't have patience for "gay panic" bullshit. I'm incensed by the fact that while most people, in theory, accept that gay panic defense is bullshit, in practice, they become sympathetic or at least understanding when it is being cited - like, implicitly, Malthus and Tim have done in the way they retold/reacted to the story.

The guy is a cold-blooded murder. He murdered an innocent, unconscious person because he was "disgusted" with being an object of sexual advances from another man. I don't have an ounce of pity for that bastard, yet Timmy finds it "sad" that the guy is still feeling remorse. Well, he shouldn't be feeling remorse - he should be feeling a needle from a lethal injection.

I will continue being "so up in arms" every time I encounter anyone coming from a "Yes, but" (either explicitly or implicitly) position when it comes to a "gay panic" situation.

[katmai]

Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.

[Martinus]

Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.

Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?

[katmai]

Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.

Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?

If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.

[The Brain]

Marcin-If you think that Malthus and Timmay really felt that way from reading their posts, you are a hopeless idiot.

Tell me. If a murderer confessed to you he murdered someone, would you shrug and retold it as an anecdote, or go to the police?

If someone told me they killed someone 40 years ago, probably shrug and retell it 20 years later on an internet fora.

A fora? I know you're an immigrant but can't you at least try to learn English?

Anyway, would a court convict the guy on an unsubstantiated confession (non-rhetorical)? Reasonable doubt is all over the place.