I hope this fucker gets what's coming to him when the cops catch up to him.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34194122/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Quote4 police officers killed in Wash. coffee shop
Sheriff's official: Gunman opened fire in 'execution'-style attack
updated 3:35 p.m. PT, Sun., Nov . 29, 2009
PARKLAND, Wash. - A gunman walked into a coffee shop and shot and killed four police officers Sunday morning in what sheriff's officials described as a targeted "execution."
The officers were sitting in the cafe at a strip mall near the Tacoma suburb of Parkland with their laptop computers, preparing for their day shifts, when a man came in and opened fire, Pierce County Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said.
The officers were obviously targeted because they were in full uniform, their marked patrol cars were parked outside and no one else was shot at, Troyer said.
"This was more of an execution. He walked in with the mind of shooting police officers," Troyer said.
It wasn't immediately known if any of the officers were able to return fire. They were declared dead at the scene.
Troyer said two employees and a few customers were in the Forza Coffee Company shop at the time but no one else was hurt. "As you can imagine they are all traumatized," he said.
Authorities scoured the area for the gunman, who fled from the coffee shop on foot and may have gotten into a nearby vehicle. The shooting suspect was described as a "scruffy"-faced black man in his 20s or 30s, 5 feet 7 to 5 feet 10 and wearing a black jacket over a gray hooded sweatshirt, and blue jeans.
"We are in the process of searching multiple locations," Troyer said.
Nearby McChord Air Force Base was put on alert.
No advance threats
The victims were three males and one female, all officers with the Lakewood Police Department southwest of Tacoma, Troyer said. No threats had been made against them or other officers in the region, sheriff's officials said.
A $10,000 reward was being offered for information leading to those responsible.
"This is an example of the danger that police officers and deputy sheriffs and state troopers face every day," Sheriff Paul Pastor said. "The person or people who did this not only harmed us, they harmed the good that we can do in the community."
There was no indication of any connection with the Halloween night shooting of a Seattle police officer, Troyer said. The suspect in that shooting remains hospitalized.
'Hits close to home'
The Forza coffee shop, part of a popular local chain, is on a side street near McChord Air Force Base in Tacoma, about 35 miles south of Seattle. The shop is in a small retail center alongside two restaurants, a cigar store and a nail salon.
Troyer said the Lakewood officers were two blocks outside their jurisdiction, and the coffee shop was a popular place for officers from surrounding jurisdictions to meet and share information.
Brad Carpenter, founder and owner of Forza Coffee, said his staff was OK and being interviewed by police, and that his main concern was with the families of the police officers.
"I'm a retired police officer, so this really hits close to home for me," he said.
Streets around the coffee shop were blocked off late Sunday morning, and a police helicopter hovered over a large crowd of investigators.
Dave Gabrielson, a clerk at Foot Mart about a block away from the coffee shop, told The News Tribune of Tacoma all was quiet when he opened the store at 8 a.m. About 30 minutes later, "All of a sudden a million cops were zooming up and down the road," Gabrielson said.
He said he saw officers bring a police dog into a nearby apartment complex.
Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire said she was "shocked and horrified" by the killings.
"Our police put their lives on the line every day, and tragedies like this remind us of the risks they continually take to keep our communities safe," she said in a statement. "My heart goes out to the family, friends and co-workers of these officers, as well as the entire law enforcement community."
Seattle police shooting
On Oct. 31, Seattle police officer Timothy Brenton was shot and killed Halloween night as he was sitting in a cruiser with trainee Britt Sweeney. Sweeney was grazed in the neck.
Authorities say the man charged with that shooting also firebombed four police vehicles in October as part of a "one-man war" against law enforcement. Christopher Monfort, 41, was arrested days after the Seattle slaying after being shot by officers surrounding an apartment complex south of Seattle where he was staying. He remains hospitalized in stable condition and is reportedly paralyzed from the waist down.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.
Hmmm. Sounds like one of those time traveling future cyborg attacks. I guess these guys were going to have progeny that would fight the machine or something.
I strongly suspect that a large number of anarchist assholes will take up this guy's cause, Mumia-style.
Not funny Raz.
What a horrible and brutal attack.
Jesus. This is the second targetted killing of cops in as many months.
They need to stop harassing the disaffected youth, and stuff like this will not happen.
Wouldn't be a problem in the first place if there was only more activities available, like some sort of youth centers.
They weren't attacked by youths. :mellow:
The HK morning news reported this too.
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Why are they covering the cars? Did they get murdered too?
They have a suspect. He has charges pending against him (shock!), including assaulting a police officer and rape of a child.
What is this country coming to? :cry:
The SWAT team seems like overkill. But then again, what else does a Portland area SWAT team have to do.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 29, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
The SWAT team seems like overkill. But then again, what else does a Portland area SWAT team have to do.
This is near Seattle.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 29, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
The SWAT team seems like overkill. But then again, what else does a Portland area SWAT team have to do.
Well, when there's an individual at large with a propensity for firing on groups of police officers, you worry about snipers, bomb threats, etc.
LULZ COPS ARE DEAD LETS PLAY DRESS UP. You dickhead.
QuoteTroyer said the officers — all from the Lakewood Police Department — were catching up on paperwork at the beginning of their shifts when they were attacked at 8:15 a.m. Sunday.
You don't "catch up" on paperwork at the beginning of your shift, because there is none at the beginning of the shift, unless they were doing warrants. They were probably getting their morning coffee.
QuoteBrad Carpenter, founder and owner of Forza Coffee, said his staff was OK and being interviewed by police, and that his main concern was for the families of the police officers.
"I'm a retired police officer, so this really hits close to home for me," said Carpenter, of nearby Gig Harbor.
So it was free coffee.
There's absolutely no reason for 4 officers to be together on duty like that, unless they're at roll call or a crime scene. Our asses would've been written up if a Lieutenant saw more than two cars at the same place. You're supposed to be on the street.
This is nasty, despicable. :mad:
:(
Do cops need a laptop to get their free coffee?
Wow, this guy is a hell of a wackjob.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010385617_webmansought29.html
Quote
Maurice Clemmons, man wanted for questioning, has troubling criminal history
The man sought for questioning in the execution of four Lakewood police officers was granted clemency in 2000 by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and released on bail just six days ago on a child rape charge in Washington state.
By Seattle Times staff
Maurice Clemmons, the 37-year-old Tacoma man being sought for questioning in the killing this morning of four Lakewood police officers, has a long criminal record punctuated by violence, erratic behavior and concerns about his mental health.
Nine years ago, then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee granted clemency to Clemmons, commuting his lengthy prison sentence over the protests of prosecutors.
"This is the day I've been dreading for a long time," Larry Jegley, prosecuting attorney for Arkansas' Pulaski County said tonight when informed that Clemmons was being sought for questioning in connection with the killings.
Clemmons' criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington. The record also stands out for the number of times he has been released from custody despite questions about the danger he posed.
Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state.
Clemmons posted $15,000 with a Chehalis company called Jail Sucks Bail Bonds. The bondsman, in turn, put up $150,000, securing Clemmons' release on the pending child-rape charge.
Clemmons lives in Tacoma, where he has run a landscaping and power-washing business out of his house, according to a police interview with his wife earlier this year.
He was married, but the relationship was tumultuous, with accounts of his unpredictable behavior leading to at least two confrontations with police earlier this year.
During the confrontation in May, Clemmons punched a sheriff's deputy in the face, according to court records. As part of that incident, he was charged with seven counts of assault and malicious mischief.
In another instance, Clemmons was accused of gathering his wife and young relatives around at 3 or 4 in the morning and having them all undress. He told them that families need to "be naked for at least 5 minutes on Sunday," a Pierce County sheriff's report says.
"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report says.
As part of the child-rape investigation, the sheriff's office interviewed Clemmons' sister in May. She told them that "Maurice is not in his right mind and did not know how he could react when contacted by Law Enforcement," a sheriff's report says.
"She stated that he was saying that the secret service was coming to get him because he had written a letter to the President. She stated his behavior has become unpredictable and erratic. She suspects he is having a mental breakdown," the report says.
Deputies also interviewed other family members. They reported that Clemmons had been saying he could fly and that he expected President Obama to visit to "confirm that he is Messiah in the flesh."
Prosecutors in Pierce County were sufficiently concerned about Clemmons' mental health that they asked to have him evaluated at Western State Hospital. Earlier this month, on Nov. 6, a psychologist concluded that Clemmons was competent to stand trial on the child-rape and other felony charges, according to court records.
Clemmons moved Washington in 2004, after being released from prison in Arkansas, state Department of Corrections records indicate. That would mean he had gone five years or so before landing in serious trouble with authorities here, according to a review of his criminal record.
Clemmons started Sea-Wash Pressure Washing Landscaping with his wife, Nicole Smith, in October 2005. The license for the business expired last month.
Long history of trouble in Arkansas
News accounts out of Arkansas offer a confusing — and, at times, conflicting — description of Clemmons' criminal history and prison time.
In 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property, according to a news account in Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. Newspaper stories describe a series of disturbing incidents involving Clemmons while he was being tried in Arkansas on various charges.
During one trial, Clemmons was shackled in leg irons and seated next to a uniformed officer. The presiding judge ordered the extra security because he felt Clemmons had threatened him, court records show.
Another time, Clemmons hid a hinge in his sock, and was accused of intending to use it as a weapon. Yet another time, Clemmons took a lock from a holding cell, and threw it toward the bailiff. He missed and instead hit Clemmons' mother, who had come to bring him street clothes, according to records and published reports.
On another occasion, Clemmons had reached for a guard's pistol during transport to the courtroom.
When Clemmons received the 60-year sentence, he was already serving 48 years on five felony convictions and facing up to 95 more years on charges of robbery, theft of property and possessing a handgun on school property. Records from Clemmons' sentencing described him as 5-foot-7 and 108 pounds. The crimes were committed when he was 17.
Clemmons served 11 years before being released.
News accounts say Huckabee commuted Clemmons' sentence, citing Clemmons' young age at the time the crimes were committed.
But Clemmons remained on parole — and soon after landed in trouble again. In March 2001, he was accused of violating his parole by committing aggravated robbery and theft, according to a story in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.
He was returned to prison on a parole violation. But in what appears to have been a mistake, Clemmons was not actually served with the arrest warrants until leaving prison three years later. As a result, Clemmons' attorney argued that the charges should be dismissed because too much time had passed. Prosecutors dropped the charges.
So this is Huckabees fault then. Goodbye to 2012 Mike.
Also "Jail Sucks Bail Bonds" ? :huh:
Also, given his history. I'm going to chalk this guy up to probably being a white trash KKK type supremacist.
Quote from: Jaron on November 29, 2009, 11:43:13 PM
Also, given his history. I'm going to chalk this guy up to probably being a white trash KKK type supremacist.
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Quote from: Jaron on November 29, 2009, 11:43:13 PM
Also, given his history. I'm going to chalk this guy up to probably being a white trash KKK type supremacist.
:lol: He's black.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Citizen K
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RIP.
:blush:
Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A05uvpG3cLs
Quote from: Jaron on November 29, 2009, 11:40:54 PM
Also "Jail Sucks Bail Bonds" ? :huh:
Why didn't I think of that. What a great name.
Quote from: Jaron on November 29, 2009, 11:40:54 PM
So this is Huckabees fault then. Goodbye to 2012 Mike.
Yeah, this'll be his Willie Horton. Way to go, Mike. Dumbass.
Quote from: citizen k on November 29, 2009, 11:48:24 PM
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I knew this guy looked familiar.
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What is the significance of that star tattoo on his cheek?
Quote from: Jaron on November 30, 2009, 12:43:48 AM
What is the significance of that star tattoo on his cheek?
I dunno. Touched By An Angel, maybe?
I can't tell if that's really a tatoo or a birth defect.
Well Huckabe is fucked. Shame. I kinda liked him. :(
Do they ever pardon innocent people in Arkansas?
That was quick.
Quote from: DGuller on November 30, 2009, 01:30:54 AM
Do they ever pardon innocent people in Arkansas?
Only if Mike gets a big campaign contribution. That's how it usually happens.
Quote from: KRonn on November 29, 2009, 10:51:24 PM
This is nasty, despicable. :mad:
:(
Let's not get overboard here. Having a coffee and a doughnut while on duty may not be the most decent thing to do, but it is hardly the end of the world. :rolleyes:
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Maybe the thread where the guy goes on a killing rampage isn't the place to argue long sentences are fucked up.
It sounds like this guy may have been killed in a police shootout but they aren't quite sure yet (obviously they're not going to just waltz in and have a looksee, given his tendency to kill police officers without hesitation).
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
If anything, it showed that the Arkansas system had foresight :contract:
Releasing a guy after 11 years served for burglary charges sounds quite reasonable to me.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 29, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
The SWAT team seems like overkill. But then again, what else does a Portland area SWAT team have to do.
I thought that.
Reminds me of the first time I went to Paris. I got into a Metro station and for some reason about 10 gendarmes (I assume) in gear like that went running through the station with guns. I'd never seen police with guns before, far less running with guns, which seems like running with scissors to me. I shat a crust.
Weird that this guy just seems insane. The execution style would have made me thought that it was something entirely different.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 08:30:25 AM
Releasing a guy after 11 years served for burglary charges sounds quite reasonable to me.
:yes: It won't matter, though. Everyone will blame Huck for not having psychic powers. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2009, 08:22:55 AM
It sounds like this guy may have been killed in a police shootout but they aren't quite sure yet (obviously they're not going to just waltz in and have a looksee, given his tendency to kill police officers without hesitation).
I was doubting the guy would be taken alive anyways. Even if he tried to surrender.
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Harsh prison sentences are necessary to keep the black population in check. You obviously don't live in a city with a dangerous and socially backwards ethnic minority.
Quote from: Fate on November 30, 2009, 08:37:54 AM
You obviously don't live in a city with a dangerous and socially backwards ethnic minority.
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 30, 2009, 08:37:07 AM
I was doubting the guy would be taken alive anyways. Even if he tried to surrender.
:yes: Assuming they have positive ID that he's the guy, if he holes up like that IMO the proper strategy is to:
a) ensure that there isn't anyone else in the house with him
b) fill the place with lead
It's not worth risking more law enforcement lives on a guy like that.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 08:46:08 AM
Quote from: Fate on November 30, 2009, 08:37:54 AM
You obviously don't live in a city with a dangerous and socially backwards ethnic minority.
:lol:
Slavics are dangerous and socially backwards, but they don't constitute a minority in Poland. :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 30, 2009, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 29, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
The SWAT team seems like overkill.
I thought that.
If you are not going to use your SWAT team to go after the guy who has already killed 4 police officers in cold blood, WTF do you have SWAT team for?
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 09:07:34 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 30, 2009, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 29, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
The SWAT team seems like overkill.
I thought that.
If you are not going to use your SWAT team to go after the guy who has already killed 4 police officers in cold blood, WTF do you have SWAT team for?
photo ops
Quote from: alfred russel on November 30, 2009, 08:21:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Maybe the thread where the guy goes on a killing rampage isn't the place to argue long sentences are fucked up.
Disagree. If anything, he was a victim of injustice and the pigs who got shot deserve what they got for defending the corrupt and unjust system.
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Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Welcome to Arkansas? :P
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 09:07:34 AM
If you are not going to use your SWAT team to go after the guy who has already killed 4 police officers in cold blood, WTF do you have SWAT team for?
But they weren't going after the bad guy in that shot, they were on a crime scene.
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 30, 2009, 08:21:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
QuoteIn 1990, Clemmons, then 18, was sentenced in Arkansas to 60 years in prison for burglary and theft of property
Ok, that is fucked up. Any legal system that is capable of sentencing a 18 y.o. for 60 years in prison for crimes that do not involve death or severe injury (irrespective of any past criminal record and whatnot) deserves any shit it gets.
Maybe the thread where the guy goes on a killing rampage isn't the place to argue long sentences are fucked up.
Disagree. If anything, he was a victim of injustice and the pigs who got shot deserve what they got for defending the corrupt and unjust system.
And you wonder why you get so much shit. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 09:18:43 AM
Disagree. If anything, he was a victim of injustice and the pigs who got shot deserve what they got for defending the corrupt and unjust system.
:x
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 07:48:32 AM
(snip) Having a coffee and a doughnut while on duty may not be the most decent thing to do, (snip)
Miscomprehend what you read much?
QuoteThe officers were sitting in the cafe at a strip mall near the Tacoma suburb of Parkland with their laptop computers, preparing for their day shifts,
Quote from: Jaron on November 30, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 30, 2009, 09:18:43 AM
Disagree. If anything, he was a victim of injustice and the pigs who got shot deserve what they got for defending the corrupt and unjust system.
And you wonder why you get so much shit. :rolleyes:
One of his more amusing bits of deliberate hyperbole, IMO.
Quote from: DGuller on November 30, 2009, 09:33:16 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 09:07:34 AM
If you are not going to use your SWAT team to go after the guy who has already killed 4 police officers in cold blood, WTF do you have SWAT team for?
But they weren't going after the bad guy in that shot, they were on a crime scene.
But they did not know if the bad guy was still around somewhere, presumably.
Makes sense to have them there and ready in case the bad guy is found in some store nearby or whatever.
The police have had a house surrounded since last night, in which they believed the guy was holed up, or even dead. Except: whoops, the house is empty, and the guy has been loose for hours.
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Over and over again?
How many other times have cops been gunned down in donut shops by released felons?
Maybe we should consider closing up the donut shops, since this is happening so often.
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Over and over again?
How many other times have cops been gunned down in donut shops by released felons?
Maybe we should consider closing up the donut shops, since this is happening so often.
Let it go. Maybe it is unfair, but lets not argue that this shouldn't end Huckabee's political career.
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Over and over again?
How many other times have cops been gunned down in donut shops by released felons?
Maybe we should consider closing up the donut shops, since this is happening so often.
Right, not just cops; I was unclear there.
Kids kidnapped or killed, cops killed. Just recently we've had several cases of kids killed or kidnaps resolved, committed by people with lengthy criminal records.
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 11:06:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Over and over again?
How many other times have cops been gunned down in donut shops by released felons?
Maybe we should consider closing up the donut shops, since this is happening so often.
Right, not just cops; I was unclear there.
Kids kidnapped or killed, cops killed. Just recently we've had several cases of kids killed or kidnaps resolved, committed by people with lengthy criminal records.
Indeed. People with lengthy criminal records do in fact tend to...commit crimes. That is how their records become so lengthy.
Of course, you know what else happens over and over and over again?
People go to jail, get paroled, and then don't murder 4 cops in a donut shop. Or rape any kids. Or kidnap kids.
Fuck, it is happening time and time again, this not committing crimes after getting out of jail! Whatever shall we do about it???
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 09:24:24 AM
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I thought the same thing at first, but it's just such an over the top statement that no one's taken it seriously. :(
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 30, 2009, 11:16:43 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 09:24:24 AM
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I thought the same thing at first, but it's just such an over the top statement that no one's taken it seriously. :(
I wonder if any of the cops were gay?
Or maybe the shooter was gay? Or in the closet?
When are we going to start hearing about the REAL facts of this case?
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 11:06:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2009, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
News says this guy has a long, violent criminal record. Was released from prison, reportedly by a governor of Arkansas (Huckabee) while serving a 95 year term. Again, a known violent offender with a lengthy record is set free, and we have this kind of thing happen... over and over again.
Over and over again?
How many other times have cops been gunned down in donut shops by released felons?
Maybe we should consider closing up the donut shops, since this is happening so often.
Right, not just cops; I was unclear there.
Kids kidnapped or killed, cops killed. Just recently we've had several cases of kids killed or kidnaps resolved, committed by people with lengthy criminal records.
Indeed. People with lengthy criminal records do in fact tend to...commit crimes. That is how their records become so lengthy.
Of course, you know what else happens over and over and over again?
People go to jail, get paroled, and then don't murder 4 cops in a donut shop. Or rape any kids. Or kidnap kids.
Fuck, it is happening time and time again, this not committing crimes after getting out of jail! Whatever shall we do about it???
This is an issue with me; should be to all of us. Just because not everyone who gets out of prison goes on to even worse crimes doesn't mean we could not do a better job with felons. In the news we see kids, adults, cops, people being killed, raped, kidnapped, by felons who should not have been let out of prison. Yeah, but I guess it's another radical view of mine that's so hard to understand. I realize we can't be perfect on it, but again, I feel strongly that we need to do better at it.
Your views are hardly "radical". They are shared by the vast majority of people out there, in fact.
"ZOMG! LEAVE TEH FELONS IN JAIL! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"
Huckabee just got Dukakied. :yeah:
Quote from: KRonn on November 30, 2009, 11:06:10 AM
Right, not just cops; I was unclear there.
Kids kidnapped or killed, cops killed. Just recently we've had several cases of kids killed or kidnaps resolved, committed by people with lengthy criminal records.
To be devil's advocate, it's a big country. Most things happen over and over, that's why anecdotal evidence is so useless.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 09:24:24 AM
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I question what Homer's doing to that tub of popcorn.
Quote from: Malthus on November 30, 2009, 12:17:09 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 30, 2009, 09:24:24 AM
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I question what Homer's doing to that tub of popcorn.
There is no question in my mind.
Yeah, this guy was a real sweetheart. Was let out early on about a century's worth of prison time. Was waiting trial for child rape, low bail for the guy, even with his record, let alone the seriousness of his latest allegations. No reason at all to suspect that something could go wrong here. Nothing to see here, move along.
The system works as well as we could possibly expect it to! Again, we see the usual statements of how this system failed in this case! Really? Ya think so? No wai! :huh: You'd think that those responsible for this kind of system would see what anyone of the rest of us could see is wrong with the system, their system.
Quote[size]
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577845,00.html
Suspect in Cop Killings Was Out on Street Despite Lengthy Rap Sheet, Sentences
As authorities continue searching for the suspect wanted in the ambush execution of four police officers, questions are swirling as to how and why Maurice Clemmons — an ex-con who at one time faced more than 100 years behind bars — was allowed to live free.
Clemmons, 37, of Tacoma, Wash., has an extensive, violent criminal history marked by volatile and unstable behavior, according to court records and news reports.
His criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington, according to The Seattle Times. He had a lengthy prison sentence commuted in 2000 by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who cited Clemmons' youth.
Rhonda Sharp, a spokeswoman for the Arkansas Parole Board, said then-Gov. Huckabee commuted Clemmons' 108-year prison term to a sentence of 47 years, five months and 19 days.
"[Huckabee's commutation] made him eligible for parole at that point," Sharp told FoxNews.com on Monday.
Clemmons later violated his parole and was returned to prison until his release in 2004.
"Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State," Huckabee said in a statement issued Sunday. The former governor, who ran for president in 2008 and has been a leading contender in polls for the 2012 Republican nomination, currently hosts a show on Fox News Channel.
Huckabee said the criminal justice system "failed miserably" in Clemmons' case.
"If I could've known nine years ago, looked into the future, would I have acted favorably upon the parole board's recommendation?" Huckabee told Fox News Radio on Monday. "Of course not."
Responding to his critics, Huckabee said, "Politics is the last thing on my mind. It should be the last thing on anybody's mind. To me it's repulsive that people are trying to bring something like that up in the midst of what ought to be a concern for these officer's families.
"The criminal justice is far from perfect and in this case it failed miserably on all sides."
Clemmons is wanted in connection to Sunday's shooting in a suburban Seattle coffee shop that killed Lakewood Police Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39, and Officers Ronald Owens, 37; Tina Griswold, 40; and Greg Richards, 42.
Clemmons, who was released from custody in Washington just seven days ago, had been jailed in Pierce County on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, Jail Sucks Bail Bonds, Clemmons posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of which was his own money — and secured his release on the pending rape charge.
In 1989, Clemmons, then 18, was convicted for aggravated robbery, buglary, robbery and two counts of theft of property, said Arkansas Department of Correction spokeswoman Dina Tyler. A year later, he was convicted of burglary, theft of property and possession of a firearm, she said.
"When you do the math on all of them, it all comes to 108 years," Tyler told FoxNews.com of Clemmons' total sentence.
Clemmons violated his parole in 2001 on a robbery charge, Tyler said, and was returned to prison before being released in 2004, Tyler said.
When informed that Clemmons was being sought for questioning in the killings, Larry Jegley, prosecuting attorney for Arkansas' Pulaski County, told The Seattle Times: "This is the day I've been dreading for a long time."
Calls to Jegley were not immediately returned Monday.
Clemmons also had at least two confrontations with police earlier this year. During one incident in May, according to the Seattle Times, Clemmons punched a sheriff's deputy in the face and was charged with seven counts of assault and malicious mischief. In another incident, Clemmons was accused of gathering his wife, Nicole Smith, and young relatives and forcing them to "be naked for at least 5 minutes," according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.
"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report reads.
As part of the child-rape investigation, the Pierce County Sheriff's Office interviewed Clemmons' sister in May. She said her brother was "not in his right mind and did not know how he could react when contacted by law enforcement," a report reads.
"She stated that he was saying that the Secret Service was coming to get him because he had written a letter to the President," the report continued. "She stated his behavior has become unpredictable and erratic. She suspects he is having a mental breakdown."
Other relatives said, according to the report, that Clemmons claimed he could fly and that he expected President Obama to visit him to "confirm that he is Messiah in the flesh."
Clemmons was found competent to stand trial earlier this month on the child-rape and other felony charges by a psychologist at Western State Hospital, court records show.
Clemmons moved to Washington in 2004 after being released from prison in Arkansas, according to state Department of Corrections records.
A series of incidents involving Clemmons was reported as he was being tried in Arkansas on various charges, The Seattle Times reports.
During one court proceeding, Clemmons hid a hinge in his sock, allegedly intending to use it as a weapon. In another trial, Clemmons threw a lock he took from a holding cell toward a bailiff and instead struck his mother, who had come to bring him street clothes, according to court records and news reports. On another occasion, Clemmons reached for a guard's firearm during transport to a courtroom. In yet another incident, a presiding judge ordered Clemmons to be shackled in leg irons and seated next to a uniformed officer because the judge felt Clemmons threatened him.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 30, 2009, 11:16:43 AM
I thought the same thing at first, but it's just such an over the top statement that no one's taken it seriously. :(
At least we could have had Fate or Grallon chime in or something.
Quote from: alfred russel on November 30, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Let it go. Maybe it is unfair, but lets not argue that this shouldn't end Huckabee's political career.
I agree that it would ruin your rep to wait for the facts before announcing "lets not argue that this shouldn't end Huckabee's political career."
Quote from: grumbler on November 30, 2009, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 30, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Let it go. Maybe it is unfair, but lets not argue that this shouldn't end Huckabee's political career.
I agree that it would ruin your rep to wait for the facts before announcing "lets not argue that this shouldn't end Huckabee's political career."
Spitzer, Huckabee, and Palin: a trio of ignorance that needed to be taken down however possible. Only one to go! :)
I agree with Marty that 60 years for burglary is excessive as an isolated example. But this looks like his time was accumulated over many different charges. In that case, I think keeping him in jail that long is a good idea, because he's clearly not capable of living in society. He's a case of consistent aggravated antisocial behavior. Should have stayed in jail.
The point about the parole system is also a great one. The dude in Cali who kidnapped that girl was on parole for like a decade or something and the parole officers never managed to notice he was hiding people secretly in some makeshift structures in his back yard. How close was this monitoring anyway?
Wow, this has the best of Marty's World; dead cops AND a kiddiefucker. It's as if it's his Own Private Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Meh, the faggot's been warned accordingly.
6 quatloos marti starts a CLEAR TEH AIRE thread.
For what it's worth, Huckabee's getting pilloried in the Arkansas press. The main (only) newspaper here, the arch-conservative Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, carried out their own execution-style pwning of Huckabuck in an editorial this morning. The liberal alt-weekly, naturally, is having a field day.
:yeah:
Quote
Seattle, Washington (CNN) -- Investigators searching for the suspected killer of four Seattle-area police officers have rounded up several of his relatives and friends to keep them from helping him escape, a sheriff's spokesman said Monday.
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 02:21:29 AM
Quote
Seattle, Washington (CNN) -- Investigators searching for the suspected killer of four Seattle-area police officers have rounded up several of his relatives and friends to keep them from helping him escape, a sheriff's spokesman said Monday.
Nice one, guilty by association...
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 30, 2009, 07:08:39 PM
Wow, this has the best of Marty's World; dead cops AND a kiddiefucker. It's as if it's his Own Private Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Meh, the faggot's been warned accordingly.
I just think cop-killing is a community service. Keeps them on their toes and all.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome lawyer?
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on December 01, 2009, 02:25:12 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 02:21:29 AM
Quote
Seattle, Washington (CNN) -- Investigators searching for the suspected killer of four Seattle-area police officers have rounded up several of his relatives and friends to keep them from helping him escape, a sheriff's spokesman said Monday.
Nice one, guilty by association...
America is a police state. You can say that by killing the pigs, the guy is a conscientious objector. Someone like Gandhi, Mandela or Walesa.
Nigga please, don't try to put Walesa in the same league as Gandhi or even Mandela.
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 02:26:11 AM
Will no one rid me of this troublesome lawyer?
since you asked so nice :)
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 02:29:28 AM
Nigga please, don't try to put Walesa in the same league as Gandhi or even Mandela.
Well, I guess Walesa's wife didn't torture people, unlike Mandela's. :P
Quote from: katmai on December 01, 2009, 02:30:12 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 02:26:11 AM
Will no one rid me of this troublesome lawyer?
since you asked so nice :)
You could have asked garbon to kick me in the nuts but you blew it. Now it won't be possible until the next Languish meet I go to... and I may wear a codpiece.
A peapiece
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 03:13:18 AM
You could have asked garbon to kick me in the nuts but you blew it. Now it won't be possible until the next Languish meet I go to... and I may wear a codpiece.
brazen is the one who failed me there. :contract:
Quote from: katmai on December 01, 2009, 03:22:05 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 03:13:18 AM
You could have asked garbon to kick me in the nuts but you blew it. Now it won't be possible until the next Languish meet I go to... and I may wear a codpiece.
brazen is the one who failed me there. :contract:
Brazen is my fag hag. :P
Quote
Police have brought in five or six relatives and other acquaintances of Maurice Clemmons, "and we expect that number to grow," Pierce County Sheriff's Department spokesman Ed Troyer said.
Some of Clemmons' family and friends have been trying to help him elude police and seek treatment for a gunshot wound, and they have tried to divert investigators by calling in false leads, he said.
"What we're going to do is eliminate those people, so he'll have no place to go," Troyer told CNN. A raid in the southern Seattle suburb of Renton late Monday was aimed at cutting off Clemmons from that support network, he said.
Stupid negros.
QuotePolice have brought in five or six relatives and other acquaintances of Maurice Clemmons, "and we expect that number to grow," Pierce County Sheriff's Department spokesman Ed Troyer said.
lol, nigger round up?
I guess they brought in some Arkansas cops to show the Seattle police how to catch an uppity darky.
Police did claim that his relatives helped him evade, so if that's not made up, it's understandable.
QuotePolice have brought in five or six relatives and other acquaintances of Maurice Clemmons, "and we expect that number to grow," Pierce County Sheriff's Department spokesman Ed Troyer said.
Some of Clemmons' family and friends have been trying to help him elude police and seek treatment for a gunshot wound, and they have tried to divert investigators by calling in false leads, he said.
"What we're going to do is eliminate those people, so he'll have no place to go," Troyer told CNN. A raid in the southern Seattle suburb of Renton late Monday was aimed at cutting off Clemmons from that support network, he said.
I really like this one... :thumbsup:
Got him.
Quote from: Fireblade on December 01, 2009, 12:05:50 AM
The liberal alt-weekly, naturally, is having a field day.
:yeah:
Principles? What are those?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 30, 2009, 03:15:08 PM
The point about the parole system is also a great one. The dude in Cali who kidnapped that girl was on parole for like a decade or something and the parole officers never managed to notice he was hiding people secretly in some makeshift structures in his back yard. How close was this monitoring anyway?
Despite what has been occurring recently the parole system works for the most part when it is properly funded. Most states have cut back funding to the point that it no longer functions as intended which creates a serious risk to public safety. Along with states letting out prisoners early to save money in the prison system just compounds the problem (which has been going on for a long time e.g. Dukakis)
Also, sometimes people are just evil.
To clarify things like butter, they not only got him, but they KILLED the boy. :cool:
Well, he would have eventually been killed anyway, except it would have taken ~20 years and cost millions of dollars in legal fees, prison costs, etc.
This method took a mere 3 days and cost ~$1 in .40 bullets. :smoke:
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:22:31 AM
To clarify things like butter, they not only got him, but they KILLED the boy. :cool:
Butter isn't very clear.
4:1 for Liberty :cool:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 01, 2009, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:22:31 AM
To clarify things like butter, they not only got him, but they KILLED the boy. :cool:
Butter isn't very clear.
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BURNED!
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
4:1 for Liberty :cool:
Why do you hate the Popo? Are you black? a drug user? a prostitute? Oh. Right.
If we want to overload Marcins circuits, we need a black to slay 4 gay police officers.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 01, 2009, 09:30:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
4:1 for Liberty :cool:
Why do you hate the Popo? Are you black? a drug user? a prostitute? Oh. Right.
Cops are historically anti-gay. When it comes to interactions between popos and gays, it usually boils down to two things: 1) raiding gay bars and gay hook-up spots, and 2) turning a blind eye to anti-gay violence.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 01, 2009, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:22:31 AM
To clarify things like butter, they not only got him, but they KILLED the boy. :cool:
Butter isn't very clear.
Its a pun. Clarified butter. Used in New England for lobsters.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:32:01 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 01, 2009, 09:30:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
4:1 for Liberty :cool:
Why do you hate the Popo? Are you black? a drug user? a prostitute? Oh. Right.
Cops are historically anti-gay. When it comes to interactions between popos and gays, it usually boils down to two things: 1) raiding gay bars and gay hook-up spots, and 2) turning a blind eye to anti-gay violence.
The police is very slow to evolved as an organization. Acceptance of gays is pretty new. Be Patient.
Attitudes like Martinus' make me less enthusiastic to support gay rights.
It is one thing to not support the police because of their supposed attitudes towards gay people, and quite another to celebrate their deaths.
I find it rather ironic and sad though that you assume the behavior of some to the whole, the same thing you have to fight against every day. Physician - take thy medicine.
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:46:05 AM
Attitudes like Martinus' make me less enthusiastic to support gay rights.
It is one thing to not support the police because of their supposed attitudes towards gay people, and quite another to celebrate their deaths.
I find it rather ironic and sad though that you assume the behavior of some to the whole, the same thing you have to fight against every day. Physician - take thy medicine.
Well, I'm also embellishing because I know that if there are two things that can get Languish up in arms, it's cop killings and soldier-related stuff (coupled with an almost total, nonchalant disregard for any rights of someone accused of a crime and/or the enemy). Frankly I don't get it (it's a very illiberal attitude which conflicts with the forum's otherwise pro-liberty slant) but I like yanking that chain.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:32:01 AM
Cops are historically anti-gay. When it comes to interactions between popos and gays, it usually boils down to two things: 1) raiding gay bars and gay hook-up spots, and 2) turning a blind eye to anti-gay violence.
You are ignoring the contributions of the cop in the village people.
I can understand that America glorifies its soldiers a bit too much, but it is definitely not that way about police officers.
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:53:17 AM
I can understand that America glorifies its soldiers a bit too much, but it is definitely not that way about police officers.
Dunno about America, but at least on this forum, it's usually a celebratory mood whenever cops kill someone or someone is sentenced to death. I find it grating, to be honest.
Usually that person is a dangerous criminal. :huh:
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:57:51 AM
Usually that person is a dangerous criminal. :huh:
I see there is no point even discussing it - our worldviews are too differnet.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:54:40 AM
Dunno about America, but at least on this forum, it's usually a celebratory mood whenever cops kill someone or someone is sentenced to death. I find it grating, to be honest.
Not grating enough to drive you away for good, but we are working on that. :cool:
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 09:48:11 AM
Well, I'm also embellishing because I know that if there are two things that can get Languish up in arms, it's cop killings and soldier-related stuff (coupled with an almost total, nonchalant disregard for any rights of someone accused of a crime and/or the enemy). Frankly I don't get it (it's a very illiberal attitude which conflicts with the forum's otherwise pro-liberty slant) but I like yanking that chain.
Guilty till proven innocent. :mad:
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:57:51 AM
Usually that person is a dangerous criminal. :huh:
I see there is no point even discussing it - our worldviews are too differnet.
Seriously though, would you have preferred the cops to nicely ask Mr. Clemmons to surrender with their guns holstered? The guy already killed four cops... do you honestly think he wouldn't have killed as many more cops as he possibly could?
I guarantee you if someone walked around executing cops in Poland, the police would respond with deadly force too... as they should.
Marty probably hates Polish cops worse than American ones.
I can understand Marty's viewpoint. I imagine that in Eastern Europe police is very corrupt and incompetent, so they definitely shouldn't be entrusted with the right to kill people at their discretion. Things are different in US.
Quote from: DGuller on December 01, 2009, 05:33:05 PM
I can understand Marty's viewpoint. I imagine that in Eastern Europe police is very corrupt and incompetent, so they definitely shouldn't be entrusted with the right to kill people at their discretion. Things are different in US.
In eastern europe is even the gays corrupt and incompetent, that's just the way thing are there...
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you know, fox new's interview with huckabee over the events never mentioned this :bleeding:
not that i took much from it..
Quote from: Lacroix on December 03, 2009, 11:42:47 PM
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you know, fox new's interview with huckabee over the events never mentioned this :bleeding:
not that i took much from it..
Oh, man, if that's legit, then Huckabee's even more screwed than I thought. That's rich.
Quote from: dps on December 04, 2009, 03:45:55 AM
Oh, man, if that's legit, then Huckabee's even more screwed than I thought. That's rich.
No shit. That's even worse than Willie Horton quoting
Blazing Saddles.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 01, 2009, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 09:22:31 AM
To clarify things like butter, they not only got him, but they KILLED the boy. :cool:
Butter isn't very clear.
Clarified butter's an amazing thing for cooking. It doesn't burn. You need it to cook anything meuniere and it's used a lot in Indian and Middle Eastern food (ghee) :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2009, 06:28:10 AM
Quote from: dps on December 04, 2009, 03:45:55 AM
Oh, man, if that's legit, then Huckabee's even more screwed than I thought. That's rich.
No shit. That's even worse than Willie Horton quoting Blazing Saddles.
I personally love it. The Country Attorney is obviously a twit (talking about his "standing objection to clemency requests" and suggesting that the governor clear all such requests through him, the local prosecutor) who deserved the scorn he got.
Herzfeld sounds an awful lot like some of our moaning Languishites, and Huckabee a lot like some of the quicker-witted ones.. and it is the quicker-witted ones that make this place worth coming back to.
Yep, Huck will pay a price, and later more of a political price if he runs for office again. He explains his reasons in this article, and in the link at the end of the article. I've seen him interviewed about this on CNN and FOX. He cut down the sentence, which allowed Clemmons to have hearings (or earlier hearings?), on being released by a prison parole board.
Quote
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/03/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5879156.shtml
Mike Huckabee On Maurice Clemmons: I'm no Bleeding Heart
Former Arkansas Governor and GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, who has come under fire for commuting the sentence of suspected cop-killer Maurice Clemmons nine years ago, said at Jacksonville University Wednesday that "the idea that I'm some bleeding heart that lets anyone go is nonsense."
Huckabee, who is believed to be considering another presidential run in 2012, got a supportive welcome from students at the university, according to Jacksonville.com, which reports they "laughed at his jokes" and "applauded him when he said he supported a consumption-based tax system and opposed same-sex marriage."
But questions about Clemmons were very much on the minds of the reporters who questioned Huckabee before he spoke to the students. Back in 2000, the then-Arkansas governor commuted Clemmons' 108-year sentence for theft and other charges. Clemmons had already served 11 years in jail at the time; Huckabee said he made the decision in part because Clemmons was just 16 when he was sentenced. He also suggested the sentence was excessive and that a white teenager would not have received such a long jail term.
Clemmons was eventually released on parole. He was later arrested on other counts, including child rape, but went free when prosecutors failed to file charges against him. He was ultimately killed by police while being sought in connection with the murder of four policemen in Washington.
Conservative commentators have hammered Huckabee for commuting Clemmons – criticism Huckabee has deemed "disgusting."
"It really does show though how sick society has become when we're more interested in the political consequences of an election that's three years away," he said.
Huckabee said Wednesday he wasn't apologizing for his decision in the Clemmons case. He said there were no protests about his court of action, which cut Clemmons' sentence to 47 years, and noted that the parole board is the body that released him.
According to CNN, Huckabee told reporters Wednesday that "You're looking at this nine years later and trying to make something as if I can look in to the future."
"I wish I could have. Good Lord, I wish I had that power. I wish I could have done that. But I don't know how anyone can do it," he added. Huckabee said that "nobody at that point was saying he's a cop killer."
Explaining his decision to grant clemency, Huckabee said he read "every bit" of Clemmons' file.
"And here was a case where a guy had been given 108 years," he said. "Now, if you think a 108-year sentence is an appropriate sentence for a 16-year-old for the crimes he committed, then you should run for governor of Arkansas."
He laid out his argument in full in an article in the conservative Human Events magazine earlier this week. Quote
Huckabee is right, of course - but that won't matter a bit.
He will always be the guy who let the 4 times cop killer out of jail.
An interesting article on Huckabee's pardons gone wild:
QuoteFind God, get out of jail, slaughter again
Why did Mike Huckabee pardon child rapist Maurice Clemmons? Because God told him to
By Gene Lyons
AP/Elaine Thompson
Lakewood, Wash., Police Chief Bret Farrer, center, listens to a news briefing near where a man suspected of killing four Lakewood police officers was shot and killed by a Seattle patrol officer on Tuesday.
Another week, another grotesque mass shooting: In Washington state this time, leaving four police officers dead, four families destroyed and nine children's lives shattered. As it's politically unfashionable to wonder whether Americans shouldn't do more to keep semi-automatic handguns away from crazy people, attention soon focused on why mass murderer Maurice Clemmons wasn't locked away, where he belonged.
Once again, former Arkansas Gov. and GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee struggled to explain his catastrophically poor judgment. Once again, a violent felon turned loose on his say-so had run amok. Once again, according to Huckabee, currently a Fox News Channel talk show host, the disaster was everybody's fault but his own. He issued a buck-passing statement blaming "a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington."
Assisted by an absurdly deferential Bill O'Reilly on Fox, Huckabee attempted to shift blame to Washington judges who'd freed Clemmons on $150,000 bail pending trial for child rape. Why, had he known Clemmons would go berserk, he vowed, he'd never have commuted his sentence in 2000. (One can only imagine O'Reilly's reaction to this self-serving blather had Huckabee been a Democrat.)
The Washington tragedy almost surely marks the end of Huckabee's political career. Ironically, however, for once his alibi is more right than wrong. For his own protection and everybody else's, Clemmons ought to have been inside a locked-down psychiatric unit. The system failed from top to bottom.
But let's start at the top, shall we? Although he posed as a conservative hard-liner, when it came to crime and punishment, the glib, self-deprecating Huckabee proved as softheaded and gullible as the woolliest sociology professor in the faculty lounge.
During the former Baptist minister's decade as Arkansas governor, it appeared that no matter how heinous an inmate's crimes, all he had to do for a pardon was drop to his knees, praise Jesus and persuade some preacher known to Huckabee of his newfound holiness. "Everybody knows that Mike Huckabee makes up his mind what to do by what God tells him to do," said one minister who gained clemency for a prisoner serving 100 years for the strong-arm robbery of elderly neighbors.
Making the governor's personal acquaintance also seemed to help. Inmates competed to be assigned to do yard work at the Governor's Mansion. "If you do a good job raking the governor's leaves," Pulaski County (Little Rock) prosecutor Larry Jegley complained bitterly, "you can go free."
Altogether, Huckabee commuted 163 inmates' sentences, including a dozen murderers. Several have already ended up back in prison. Indeed, given Huckabee's track record, Maurice Clemmons probably won't be the last to earn notoriety. We must pray that he ends up being the worst. Only a strong public outcry in 2004 prevented the governor from freeing a Lonoke County killer who'd beaten, raped and run over a pregnant woman with his car, only to get religion in the penitentiary.
The most notorious was Wayne DuMond, Arkansas' celebrity inmate of the '90s. Convicted in 1985 of raping a Forrest City cheerleader at knifepoint, DuMond was a glib psychopath who persuaded ideologically deranged crackpots who circulated Clinton administration "death lists" that he'd been framed. DuMond's victim, see, was a distant cousin of the then-president's. Articles appeared in places like the New York Post portraying him as a victim of the Satanic Clinton machine.
Becoming governor after Kenneth Starr deposed his predecessor, Jim Guy Tucker, Huckabee came into office publicly doubting DuMond's guilt and talking about a pardon. After the prosecutor and the victim herself courageously objected, Huckabee pulled some hugger-mugger with the parole board that ended up freeing Dumond -- the proud recipient of a "Dear Wayne" letter from the governor celebrating his release.
In 2001, DuMond was arrested and subsequently convicted of the rape and murder of a Missouri woman. Huckabee's 2007 campaign bio titled, get this, "Character Makes a Difference," falsely claimed that DuMond died in prison awaiting trial. The man's worse than a hypocrite; he's a fool. Even so, establishment pundits pretty much gave Huckabee a pass. After all, he's so charming on television. Anyway, where, exactly, is Kansas City?
Maurice Clemmons, too, played the holy card to Huckabee, who got him turned loose back in 2000. But the governor had no seeming role in Arkansas' failure to revoke Clemmons' parole after he was convicted of two more armed robberies in 2001, bringing his total to seven felonies. He was released in 2004.
Nor was Huckabee involved in Washington's decision to free Clemmons on bail with seven pending felony charges -- one involving forcing 11- and 12-year-old relatives to strip naked and fondle him while he pronounced that he was Jesus. President Obama, Clemmons proclaimed, would soon declare him the Messiah. These are unmistakable symptoms of criminal psychosis.
How and why Washington authorities failed to act is frankly beyond comprehension.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/12/02/huckabee_and_god_and_clemmons/index.html
Huckabee might just be the best person in American politics right now.
Well, that's why I'd never vote for Huckabee no matter what nor who he is running against. Ministers/former ministers should not be allowed anywhere near public office. :)
Quote from: Neil on December 04, 2009, 09:24:33 AM
Huckabee might just be the best person in American politics right now.
In the future, Seedy will get offended. You will each choose 18-year-old female champions, and the matter will be settled through Jello wrestling by proxy.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 04, 2009, 08:52:35 AM
An interesting article on Huckabee's pardons gone wild:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/12/02/huckabee_and_god_and_clemmons/index.html
Sounds like Huckabee got unlucky with making the right decision for the wrong reasons.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 07:12:25 AM
Herzfeld sounds an awful lot like some of our moaning Languishites, and Huckabee a lot like some of the quicker-witted ones.. and it is the quicker-witted ones that make this place worth coming back to.
Unfortunately, neither set could survive high level political scrutiny.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 04, 2009, 08:52:35 AM
An interesting article on Huckabee's pardons gone wild:
This article told me a lot more about Gene Lyons quotemining gone wild than it did about Huckabee's pardons gone wild. Lyons is shown to be a confirmed hack, while Huckabee is just a suspected one.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 04, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
Unfortunately, neither set could survive high level political scrutiny.
No one can. If you are going to fail, though, fail for being witty rather than for being pompous.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 10:20:41 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 04, 2009, 08:52:35 AM
An interesting article on Huckabee's pardons gone wild:
This article told me a lot more about Gene Lyons quotemining gone wild than it did about Huckabee's pardons gone wild. Lyons is shown to be a confirmed hack, while Huckabee is just a suspected one.
Did you miss the recent presidential campaign where Huckabee ran on intelligent design and eliminating the income tax and the estate tax? It's confirmed.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 10:22:06 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 04, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
Unfortunately, neither set could survive high level political scrutiny.
No one can. If you are going to fail, though, fail for being witty rather than for being pompous.
Obama seems to have managed. So maybe I was wrong. As much as we flatter ourselves otherwise, association with Languish isn't as damaging as videotape of your pastor saying "God damn America!" :unsure:
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 07:12:25 AM
I personally love it. The Country Attorney is obviously a twit (talking about his "standing objection to clemency requests" and suggesting that the governor clear all such requests through him, the local prosecutor) who deserved the scorn he got.
QFT - I can't believe a prosecutor would write a letter like that to his state's governor. The guy has no business in being in such a position of responsibility and discretion. If that is the kind of person explaining to the state board why clemency should be denied, it is no wonder it was granted.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2009, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 07:12:25 AM
I personally love it. The Country Attorney is obviously a twit (talking about his "standing objection to clemency requests" and suggesting that the governor clear all such requests through him, the local prosecutor) who deserved the scorn he got.
QFT - I can't believe a prosecutor would write a letter like that to his state's governor. The guy has no business in being in such a position of responsibility and discretion. If that is the kind of person explaining to the state board why clemency should be denied, it is no wonder it was granted.
Huckabee's legal advisor's response was incomprehensible, inasmuch as it suffered in the English language department.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2009, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 07:12:25 AM
I personally love it. The Country Attorney is obviously a twit (talking about his "standing objection to clemency requests" and suggesting that the governor clear all such requests through him, the local prosecutor) who deserved the scorn he got.
QFT - I can't believe a prosecutor would write a letter like that to his state's governor. The guy has no business in being in such a position of responsibility and discretion. If that is the kind of person explaining to the state board why clemency should be denied, it is no wonder it was granted.
Absolutely. Maybe this is explained by the prosecutor being elected himself, but I would never, ever right such a letter to a politician. I work for them, not the other way around.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 04, 2009, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2009, 10:20:41 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 04, 2009, 08:52:35 AM
An interesting article on Huckabee's pardons gone wild:
This article told me a lot more about Gene Lyons quotemining gone wild than it did about Huckabee's pardons gone wild. Lyons is shown to be a confirmed hack, while Huckabee is just a suspected one.
Did you miss the recent presidential campaign where Huckabee ran on intelligent design and eliminating the income tax and the estate tax? It's confirmed.
Grumbler misses a lot.
Quote from: Caliga on December 04, 2009, 09:35:46 AM
Well, that's why I'd never vote for Huckabee no matter what nor who he is running against. Ministers/former ministers should not be allowed anywhere near public office. :)
Good thing you don't live in Britain. Their all ministers or something.
QuoteConvicted in 1985 of raping a Forrest City cheerleader at knifepoint,
Hawt.
Quoteforcing 11- and 12-year-old relatives to strip naked and fondle him while he pronounced that he was Jesus.
Nawt as hawt. Unless you're a certain Euroweenie. But I doubt he'd pronounce himself Jesus.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2009, 05:38:50 PMNawt as hawt. Unless you're a certain Euroweenie. But I doubt he'd pronounce himself Jesus.
if the man had made a motion picture, perhaps today he would be seen as an innocent product of a corrupt system?
@huckabee: regardless of whether it was right or not (at the time) to grant clemency to the man, this is, on the surface, seems pretty damning:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arkansasleader.com%2Fnewsphotos%2F08_11_04%2Fhuckachart.gif&hash=c3564d26445e9214cfcdb12a04a200277446aca2)
it is the south, though, so i wonder what the northeast or california looks like
Well, the numbers reflect both the bleeding-heartedness of the governor and the hard-assedness of the judiciary. So the numbers in other parts of the country may be lower due to more reasonable sentencing.
Like in Texas.
Didn't W crack jokes about appeals from death row inmates?
He was Governor for 10 years, so the numbers may seem large at first. 70.3 per year doesn't really seem like that much.
Quote from: Fate on December 04, 2009, 06:37:28 PM
He was Governor for 10 years, so the numbers may seem large at first. Divide them by 10 to get an idea of what he was doing per yer. By my count, that would be 132.7.
The little graphic shows clemencies for all the states over the same time period.
Quote from: Barrister on December 04, 2009, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Fate on December 04, 2009, 06:37:28 PM
He was Governor for 10 years, so the numbers may seem large at first. Divide them by 10 to get an idea of what he was doing per yer. By my count, that would be 132.7.
The little graphic shows clemencies for all the states over the same time period.
Oops. :lol: