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 :lol: 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html

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Go ahead Obamites, defend this one-- tell me it's not a bow like you did a few months ago.  Or just go on about how it's not important as long as it makes the world "like" us (or Obama).

You're a fucking retard.  At least he's not circling first base with a tyrant. (http://web.comhem.se/~u73909834/bush4.jpg)

Quote from: Queequeg on November 14, 2009, 09:55:43 PM
You're a fucking retard.  At least he's not circling first base with a tyrant. (http://web.comhem.se/~u73909834/bush4.jpg)

Weak.

Quote from: Queequeg on November 14, 2009, 09:55:43 PM
You're a fucking retard.  At least he's not circling first base with a tyrant. (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu73909834/bush4.jpg)

You do realize derspeiss is trolling?  ;)

You're supposed to keep your back straight.

Derspicy is incapable of trolling.

Quote from: Queequeg on November 14, 2009, 09:55:43 PM
You're a fucking retard.  At least he's not circling first base with a tyrant. (http://web.comhem.se/~u73909834/bush4.jpg)

Obama already bowed to him, remember? :lol:

But the real question, would Obama kneel before Zod :nerd:

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I know it's silly, but I can't help but wonder what would happen if a President punched the Emperor after shouting "Remember Pearl Harbor!" at him.

The word is Nip, not Jap.

"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

What an idiot.  Everyone knows the proper protocol when meeting Japanese leaders is to vomit upon them.

Maybe he's just bowing so that he can more easily look the emperor in the face. The dude does just barely come up to Obama's belt.

I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

If it gets GOPtard panties in a bunch, then by all means, kiss the Emperor's feet.

Obama must now cut his belly open.

Could some of our resident Nipponologists (Jacob?) shed some light on bowing protocol?

I guess the "lower rank" gets to bow deeper, but does the location factor into it? I.e. would it be appropriate for the Tenno to request such a bow in the White House?

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Here you go Akihito bowing.


In Japan Bowing is not the act of submission that it is in the west. It is something one does to one's equals and inferiors as well as to one's betters.

However, this bowing while shaking hands thing is done by Norwegian Royalty all the time.

The deepest bow (45 degrees) is for superiors.

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

What about descendants of the Sun godess?

I am sure they are just comparing shoe size... :P

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 04:04:23 AM
The deepest bow (45 degrees) is for superiors.

Emperor of Japan gets a 45 degree bow.  King of Saudi Arabia gets a 65 degree bow.  Queen of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth gets an iPod with Obama's speeches.

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

Obama would bow to anyone if he thought it would make him more popular.

According to the pic Obama managed to squeeze a 5 degree bow out of the Emp. LIKE FOR LIKE

Wow, derspiess, you frequent a great site. I especially liked the comments under the article.

Calling the President "a half-nigger muslim dirtbag" is nowhere near the criticism Bush was getting from the left, no?

Quote from: Kleves on November 15, 2009, 04:26:56 AM

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

Obama would bow to anyone if he thought it would make him more popular.

And the problem with that is exactly what?  :huh:

This approach can be problematic when actual resources are being expended, yes. But when we are talking about symbolic gestures that do not cost anything, isn't their only purpose to gain popularity? So as long as they serve the purpose (more people like it than not like it), those who do not like it are an inherent cost, and can be disregarded.

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: Kleves on November 15, 2009, 04:26:56 AM

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

Obama would bow to anyone if he thought it would make him more popular.

And the problem with that is exactly what?  :huh:

This approach can be problematic when actual resources are being expended, yes. But when we are talking about symbolic gestures that do not cost anything, isn't their only purpose to gain popularity? So as long as they serve the purpose (more people like it than not like it), those who do not like it are an inherent cost, and can be disregarded.

You really do not understand the significance of "symbolic gestures"?  :huh: The entire reason of their existence is that they carry meaning.

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:19:04 AM
Wow, derspiess, you frequent a great site. I especially liked the comments under the article.

Calling the President "a half-nigger muslim dirtbag" is nowhere near the criticism Bush was getting from the left, no?

:huh:

I believe the Times is LA's main newspaper.

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:19:04 AM
Wow, derspiess, you frequent a great site.

Indeed.  The LA Times is a well known right wing radical rag.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2009, 06:35:03 AM

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:19:04 AM
Wow, derspiess, you frequent a great site. I especially liked the comments under the article.

Calling the President "a half-nigger muslim dirtbag" is nowhere near the criticism Bush was getting from the left, no?

:huh:

I believe the Times is LA's main newspaper.

Yeah, it's probably the 2nd most important paper in the country after the New York Times.

Maybe the Washington Post can rival it for that position, but I can't think of any other that could.

Quote from: Tamas on November 15, 2009, 06:34:31 AM

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: Kleves on November 15, 2009, 04:26:56 AM

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

Obama would bow to anyone if he thought it would make him more popular.

And the problem with that is exactly what?  :huh:

This approach can be problematic when actual resources are being expended, yes. But when we are talking about symbolic gestures that do not cost anything, isn't their only purpose to gain popularity? So as long as they serve the purpose (more people like it than not like it), those who do not like it are an inherent cost, and can be disregarded.

You really do not understand the significance of "symbolic gestures"?  :huh: The entire reason of their existence is that they carry meaning.

Their meaning is only what people think they mean - they do not carry any meaning that is independent of their perception. If the majority of people it was meant to affect like it, then it has a positive meaning. It's simple as that.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2009, 06:35:03 AM

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:19:04 AM
Wow, derspiess, you frequent a great site. I especially liked the comments under the article.

Calling the President "a half-nigger muslim dirtbag" is nowhere near the criticism Bush was getting from the left, no?

:huh:

I believe the Times is LA's main newspaper.

Then I guess it should moderate its comments section more.

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on November 14, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
What an idiot.  Everyone knows the proper protocol when meeting Japanese leaders is to vomit upon them.

:yes:
GOP tested, mother approved.

Quote
Go ahead Obamites, defend this one-- tell me it's not a bow like you did a few months ago.  Or just go on about how it's not important as long as it makes the world "like" us (or Obama).

:blink:
Go ahead Obamaphobes attack this one more like.
What is the problem here?

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 07:26:30 AM
:blink:
Go ahead Obamaphobes attack this one more like.
What is the problem here?

:lol:

Of course, a mere jumped up colonial should be scraping for royalty, right?

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2009, 07:46:14 AM

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 07:26:30 AM
:blink:
Go ahead Obamaphobes attack this one more like.
What is the problem here?

:lol:

Of course, a mere jumped up colonial should be scraping for royalty, right?

So you'd have no problem if this was an elected Japanese president he was bowing to?

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 07:54:16 AM
So you'd have no problem if this was an elected Japanese president he was bowing to?

I have a problem with the US President bowing as an inferior to anyone. He's practically 90 degrees, ffs.

QuoteCould some of our resident Nipponologists (Jacob?) shed some light on bowing protocol?

I guess the "lower rank" gets to bow deeper, but does the location factor into it? I.e. would it be appropriate for the Tenno to request such a bow in the White House?

From what I read- non Japanese should avoid doing it at all as you will fuck it up and cause 'disrespect' (though it will also be understood due to you being a ignorant gaijin).

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2009, 07:58:01 AM
I have a problem with the US President bowing as an inferior to anyone. He's practically 90 degrees, ffs.

As Viking said bowing is the done thing in Japan. Its just like shaking hands in the west.
If you had to dance a merry little jig upon meeting someone in American culture then the Emperor would be dancing a jig in that photo too. Its just diplomacy.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2009, 07:58:01 AM
I have a problem with the US President bowing as an inferior to anyone. He's practically 90 degrees, ffs.

At least he wasn't prostrate on the floor.  Wonder who he's saving that for

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 08:02:31 AM
As Viking said bowing is the done thing in Japan. Its just like shaking hands in the west.
If you had to dance a merry little jig upon meeting someone in American culture then the Emperor would be dancing a jig in that photo too. Its just diplomacy.

And there's different bows for superiors, equals and inferiors. The angle of Obama's bow is way too low.

At least he didn't make out with the Emperor.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprophetofdoom.net%2Fpics%2FIslamic_Clubs_Taliban%2FGeorge_W_Bush_Prince_Abdullah_kiss_hold_hands.jpg&hash=df53b4aed1673880cbb4f26b33b2d139a7c9752b)

Could the C-in-C be dismissed for violating Don't ask, don't tell?

Did he already visit the Pope?

Maybe Obamanidas should consider things like glory, and freedom not being free.

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Quote from: DisturbedPervert on November 14, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
What an idiot.  Everyone knows the proper protocol when meeting Japanese leaders is to vomit upon them.

President Benson was the best. :worthy:

Quote from: The Brain on November 15, 2009, 08:38:03 AM

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That's all kinds of awesome. :lol:

I've no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor, a mere matter of courtesy to a much older man. But, he seems to have made a complete balls-up of the actual bow. The angle is too great and the spinal curvature is all wrong, somebody on the staff slipped up and didn't coach him properly. His stance looks servile rather than courteous. No doubt the worst possible photoview was chosen by the press, but even so  :huh:

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2009, 02:15:44 PM
I've no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor, a mere matter of courtesy to a much older man. But, he seems to have made a complete balls-up of the actual bow. The angle is too great and the spinal curvature is all wrong, somebody on the staff slipped up and didn't coach him properly. His stance looks servile rather than courteous. No doubt the worst possible photoview was chosen by the press, but even so  :huh:

This is exactly what i was thinking. It is a goofy angle of course. but have somebody give the guy a foreign etiquette lesson or two, or he'll be slipping the tongue to that Saudi guy when he gets that booty call.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2009, 02:15:44 PM
I've no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor, a mere matter of courtesy to a much older man. But, he seems to have made a complete balls-up of the actual bow. The angle is too great and the spinal curvature is all wrong, somebody on the staff slipped up and didn't coach him properly. His stance looks servile rather than courteous. No doubt the worst possible photoview was chosen by the press, but even so  :huh:

I agree, but so what. He has things on his plate that are more important than bow etiquette practice.

Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2009, 11:43:41 PM
"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

I meant nothing racist by it.  But while we're talking about it, your avatar has a racist anti-JapANESE image in it :o

At any rate, at least he didn't kowtow.
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Quote from: alfred russel on November 15, 2009, 02:41:03 PM

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2009, 02:15:44 PM
I've no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor, a mere matter of courtesy to a much older man. But, he seems to have made a complete balls-up of the actual bow. The angle is too great and the spinal curvature is all wrong, somebody on the staff slipped up and didn't coach him properly. His stance looks servile rather than courteous. No doubt the worst possible photoview was chosen by the press, but even so  :huh:

I agree, but so what. He has things on his plate that are more important than bow etiquette practice.

That's part of his fucking job.

He better learn to do it right or stop doing it altogether.

Quote from: alfred russel on November 15, 2009, 02:41:03 PM
I agree, but so what. He has things on his plate that are more important than bow etiquette practice.

They why bother bowing to a foreign leader in the first place? 

Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 02:46:51 PM

Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2009, 11:43:41 PM
"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

I meant nothing racist by it.  But while we're talking about it, your avatar has a racist anti-JapANESE image in it :o

You actually look at the avatars?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 15, 2009, 06:36:46 AM
Yeah, it's probably the 2nd most important paper in the country after the New York Times.

Maybe the Washington Post can rival it for that position, but I can't think of any other that could.

No it isn't.  The LA Times is on the West Coast, it leans Republican and it services a relatively unimportant area of the country.

The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Chicago Tribune are all more important.

Quote from: alfred russel on November 15, 2009, 02:41:03 PM

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2009, 02:15:44 PM
I've no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor, a mere matter of courtesy to a much older man. But, he seems to have made a complete balls-up of the actual bow. The angle is too great and the spinal curvature is all wrong, somebody on the staff slipped up and didn't coach him properly. His stance looks servile rather than courteous. No doubt the worst possible photoview was chosen by the press, but even so  :huh:

I agree, but so what. He has things on his plate that are more important than bow etiquette practice.

Not really.

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:50:00 PM
That's part of his fucking job.

He better learn to do it right or stop doing it altogether.

This is why monarchism>republicanism :contract:

Quote from: Siege on November 15, 2009, 02:54:15 PM
You actually look at the avatars?

Well, they're there and I see them.  So... yeah.

Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 02:46:51 PM

Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2009, 11:43:41 PM
"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

I meant nothing racist by it.  But while we're talking about it, your avatar has a racist anti-JapANESE image in it :o

Of course, when i say jap, i mean it. Fucking slopes.

Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 03:37:57 PM

Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 02:46:51 PM

Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2009, 11:43:41 PM
"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

I meant nothing racist by it.  But while we're talking about it, your avatar has a racist anti-JapANESE image in it :o

Of course, when i say jap, i mean it. Fucking slopes.

I thought the gooks (Vietnamese variety) were slopes?  Or is that a more general term?

Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 03:41:50 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 03:37:57 PM

Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 02:46:51 PM

Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2009, 11:43:41 PM
"Jap"?  Might as well put "nigger" in the title, too.

I meant nothing racist by it.  But while we're talking about it, your avatar has a racist anti-JapANESE image in it :o

Of course, when i say jap, i mean it. Fucking slopes.

I thought the gooks (Vietnamese variety) were slopes?  or is that a mroe general term?

They are all zipperheads to me.

Yes, i'm mixing my racist insults.

Seems natural enough to me that you'd bow.  It's not a bigger deal than shaking hands or whatever.

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You sneaky little batards aren't getting doodly shit from me, except maybe my name, rank, and Social Security number: Wood, Hollis P., Lumberjack, Social Security 106-43-2185.

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 08:02:31 AM
As Viking said bowing is the done thing in Japan. Its just like shaking hands in the west.
If you had to dance a merry little jig upon meeting someone in American culture then the Emperor would be dancing a jig in that photo too. Its just diplomacy.

A hand shake is not freighted with cultural meaning about relative status.  It's a gesture between equals.

Do you think, in retrospect, that the first British ambassador to China (Lord Elgin??) should have gone ahead and polished the floor with his forehead as Chinese custom dictated?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 04:26:09 PM

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 08:02:31 AM
As Viking said bowing is the done thing in Japan. Its just like shaking hands in the west.
If you had to dance a merry little jig upon meeting someone in American culture then the Emperor would be dancing a jig in that photo too. Its just diplomacy.

A hand shake is not freighted with cultural meaning about relative status.  It's a gesture between equals.

Do you think, in retrospect, that the first British ambassador to China (Lord Elgin??) should have gone ahead and polished the floor with his forehead as Chinese custom dictated?

Totally different situation.
1: That clearly would have been a gesture of submission. kowtowing is nothing else. Bowing in Japanese culture is very different, its far more about respect and formality,
2: Totally different world situation where the Chinese actually did believe that they were the centre of the earth and that representatives of barbarian kings should pay homage to the emperor. I recall reading something from the time where he (it wasn't Elgin, can't recall who though) said he would agree to kowtow to the emperor if a mandarin of equal rank would do the same to the British king. They refused.
There is no doubt in what US-Japanese relations are these days. And that the Japanese would return the respect.




I think a large part of Obama bowing so low here is that he wasn't planning to but being faced with such a short man sort of pushed him that way in the moment. And given the space between the two he went down as best he could.

He looks rather silly bowing a lot on this video. Really OTT:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kyD_e0Y7FQ

Elgin would have suggested a game of marbles.

But he wasn't the chap sent out, that was Lord Macartney.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2009, 04:37:30 PM
Elgin would have suggested a game of marbles.

But he wasn't the chap sent out, that was Lord Macartney.

Got the first name right at least.

Quote from: Jacob on November 15, 2009, 03:43:37 PM
Seems natural enough to me that you'd bow.  It's not a bigger deal than shaking hands or whatever.

Really?  It seems natural to you to bow that deeply?

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 04:34:30 PM
Totally different situation.
1: That clearly would have been a gesture of submission. kowtowing is nothing else. Bowing in Japanese culture is very different, its far more about respect and formality,
2: Totally different world situation where the Chinese actually did believe that they were the centre of the earth and that representatives of barbarian kings should pay homage to the emperor. I recall reading something from the time where he (it wasn't Elgin, can't recall who though) said he would agree to kowtow to the emperor if a mandarin of equal rank would do the same to the British king. They refused.
There is no doubt in what US-Japanese relations are these days. And that the Japanese would return the respect.

I think a large part of Obama bowing so low here is that he wasn't planning to but being faced with such a short man sort of pushed him that way in the moment. And given the space between the two he went down as best he could.

He looks rather silly bowing a lot on this video. Really OTT:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kyD_e0Y7FQ

1. Like I said before, there are different degrees of bowing in Japan.  There is a bow between equals (something like 15 degrees IIRC).
2. And do we find that the Chinese started to change their attitude towards foreigners in general and the British in particular as a result?  We do not.  The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
1. Like I said before, there are different degrees of bowing in Japan.  There is a bow between equals (something like 15 degrees IIRC).
2. And do we find that the Chinese started to change their attitude towards foreigners in general and the British in particular as a result?  We do not.  The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.

1: Its not so simple as that. I was serious when I said that foreigners are often advised not to bother with the bowing as they would fuck it up. It goes mjuch further than just superior/equals/inferiors. Theres all sorts of subtle variations for different situations, levels of formality and other weird alien things. Age is an important factor- though the US president and Japanese Emperor are equals the Emperor remains the elder so should be given more respect; this doesn't mean the president is inferior to him, its just respect.
Also I believe there is something to Obama messing up- he fills the gap between himself and the emperor too well.
2: Doing it though would have been reaffirming it though. Maybe he should have did it just to get his foot in the door; when the Chinese start asking for tribute the British could have just laughed them away. It would have been dishonest though, he didn't feel he could do it, he felt a genuine obligation to the British king and only him.
And what on earth do you mean 'The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.'?

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 05:04:10 PM
1: Its not so simple as that. I was serious when I said that foreigners are often advised not to bother with the bowing as they would fuck it up. It goes mjuch further than just superior/equals/inferiors. Theres all sorts of subtle variations for different situations, levels of formality and other weird alien things. Age is an important factor- though the US president and Japanese Emperor are equals the Emperor remains the elder so should be given more respect; this doesn't mean the president is inferior to him, its just respect.
Also I believe there is something to Obama messing up- he fills the gap between himself and the emperor too well.
2: Doing it though would have been reaffirming it though. Maybe he should have did it just to get his foot in the door; when the Chinese start asking for tribute the British could have just laughed them away. It would have been dishonest though, he didn't feel he could do it, he felt a genuine obligation to the British king and only him.
And what on earth do you mean 'The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.'?

Dig up a pic of the Japanese emperor bowing deeply to a commoner that is older than he is and I will concede the point.

(On the style points Obama also messes up by combining the hand shake with the deep bow.)

I mean the ambassador's actions were determined by how the British public would view it, not by the impact it would have on Chinese perceptions of the relationship.

Quote from: Tyr on November 15, 2009, 05:04:10 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
1. Like I said before, there are different degrees of bowing in Japan.  There is a bow between equals (something like 15 degrees IIRC).
2. And do we find that the Chinese started to change their attitude towards foreigners in general and the British in particular as a result?  We do not.  The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.

1: Its not so simple as that. I was serious when I said that foreigners are often advised not to bother with the bowing as they would fuck it up. It goes mjuch further than just superior/equals/inferiors. Theres all sorts of subtle variations for different situations, levels of formality and other weird alien things. Age is an important factor- though the US president and Japanese Emperor are equals the Emperor remains the elder so should be given more respect; this doesn't mean the president is inferior to him, its just respect.
Also I believe there is something to Obama messing up- he fills the gap between himself and the emperor too well.
2: Doing it though would have been reaffirming it though. Maybe he should have did it just to get his foot in the door; when the Chinese start asking for tribute the British could have just laughed them away. It would have been dishonest though, he didn't feel he could do it, he felt a genuine obligation to the British king and only him.
And what on earth do you mean 'The ambassador's gesture was a symbolic representation of how the British viewed the relationship.'?

Can you show me a picture of any other head of State bowing to the Japanese emperor?  I think not

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:14:26 PM
Dig up a pic of the Japanese emperor bowing deeply to a commoner that is older than he is and I will concede the point.

(On the style points Obama also messes up by combining the hand shake with the deep bow.)

I mean the ambassador's actions were determined by how the British public would view it, not by the impact it would have on Chinese perceptions of the relationship.

1: A quick google brings up one of him visiting Saipan and meeting war veterans.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache2.asset-cache.net%2Fxc%2F53156979.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26amp%3Bc%3DIWSAsset%26amp%3Bk%3D2%26amp%3Bd%3D17A4AD9FDB9CF193CC300C081D9F47003B573460DBFA03044A0E556AF95C1AA1F06BF04B24B4128C&hash=fb320e2327243184695d53267f67f3a1b97d9cb4)

2: Aha.
Well, as I said different situations. He would have been totally fine with bowing to the emperor if a Chinese counterpart would also show such respect to the British king. The entire point of his embassy was to try and get some sort of understanding between China and the UK as opposed to the weird relations of the time.
There is no possibility these days that anyone sane would think this proves Obama is making the US subserviant to Japan though. Even if he full on kowtowed it would have just been a diplomatic faux pas, nothing binding.

15 degree bow!  Yi wins! Yi wins! :yeah:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
15 degree bow!  Yi wins! Yi wins! :yeah:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.skateboard.com.au%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fyou_win_the_prize.jpg&hash=ee687755712c17024894dbd137c7890a994fa3e2)

Yi wins a prize! :yeah:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
15 degree bow!  Yi wins! Yi wins! :yeah:

That's definitely more than 15 degrees in this picture.

Quote from: Zanza on November 15, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
I usually don't care much about symbolism, but as head of state he should not bow to other head of states.

Visiting.  If he's a guest of the Japanese head of state on Japanese home turf, who the fuck cares if he decides to show good manners to his host? <_<

Quote from: Neil on November 15, 2009, 03:08:44 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 15, 2009, 06:36:46 AM
Yeah, it's probably the 2nd most important paper in the country after the New York Times.

Maybe the Washington Post can rival it for that position, but I can't think of any other that could.

No it isn't.  The LA Times is on the West Coast, it leans Republican and it services a relatively unimportant area of the country.

The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Chicago Tribune are all more important.

Leans Republican?  Unimportant area of the country?  :lol:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:55:26 PM
Yi wins a prize! :yeah:

Congrats!

QuoteThe Los Angeles Times went against its recent tradition of not taking sides in presidential elections and endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, calling him "the competent, confident leader who represents the aspirations of the United States."

It marked the Times' first presidential endorsement since 1972 and was the paper's first endorsement of a Democratic presidential candidate in it's 127-year history. The Chicago Tribune editorial board also published its first-ever endorsement of a Democratic presidential nominee today. It is not known whether Sam Zell had any input on either endorsement.

So I guess it leans Rockefeller.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 15, 2009, 05:57:56 PM
Visiting.  If he's a guest of the Japanese head of state on Japanese home turf, who the fuck cares if he decides to show good manners to his host? <_<

Good manners are great as long as they are reciprocal.

What's disgraceful is Obama's bow actually brought disrespect to himself under traditional Japanese protocol.  Here (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=5c8f4325f5d81345&q=hirohito%20source:life&prev=/images?q=hirohito+source:life&ndsp=12&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&start=12&um=1) is how a President would do it maintaining proper protocol (showing respect for the Emperor while maintaining self-respect.) 

This is another glaring example of Obama fumbling things up on protocol (look at how he received the British PM and the sort of gifts they exchanged.)  Here's what stuns me about all of this:

1.  Protocol is handled by permanent staff attached to the State Department, that's why even relatively incompetent Presidents usually get protocol correct--the people who make it their business to know protocol generally serve through multiple administrations. (Chief of Protocol is political and changes with administration but the people who do the actual work do not.)  That doesn't mean an individual doesn't make the occasional gaffe, that happens to every world leader.  But this has happened to Obama repeatedly.

2.  The fact that Obama has failed at protocol so many times on so many different aspects (proper greeting, proper gift exchanging et cetera) means someone in the Obama camp must have essentially taken over the protocol stuff and the career guys are riding back seat.  A lot of those people are the same ones who were around when Clinton or Bush were in office so they obviously did fine in the past.

Akihito is short, Obama is tall, that might have affected that.

Edit: When I was in japan the locals were constantly amazed how courteous I was by bowing every time I entered a room. I was just pleased I didn't knock my head in the door frame AGAIN.

Here's how a real American leader looks when he meets the Emperor of Japan:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw00.middlebury.edu%2FID085A%2Fgallery%2Ffilm%2Fmacarthur.jpg&hash=f66d1b2794bcde5dffa56f5d7280e9a5adfbf10c)

 :lol:

I must assume Neil didn't click Otto's link or he wouldn't have framed his post in that disparaging manner.

This is how ABC news Japan expert put it:

Quote"Obama's handshake/forward lurch was so jarring and inappropriate it recalls Bush's back-rub of Merkel.

"Kyodo News is running his appropriate and reciprocated nod and shake with the Empress, certainly to show the president as dignified, and not in the form of a first year English teacher trying to impress with Karate Kid-level knowledge of Japanese customs.

"The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms....The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.

Of course he is not just playing the part of a weak President.  :lol:

Quote from: Neil on November 15, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
Here's how a real American leader looks when he meets the Emperor of Japan:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw00.middlebury.edu%2FID085A%2Fgallery%2Ffilm%2Fmacarthur.jpg&hash=f66d1b2794bcde5dffa56f5d7280e9a5adfbf10c)

Dugout Doug wins this thread.

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 15, 2009, 10:29:07 PMin the form of a first year English teacher trying to impress with Karate Kid-level knowledge of Japanese customs.

:lol:

That is exactly what it seemed like.  Like someone trying too hard to be multicultural.

Did the Emperor feel a great disturbance in the economy..

Quote from: Neil on November 15, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
Here's how a real American leader looks when he meets the Emperor of Japan:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw00.middlebury.edu%2FID085A%2Fgallery%2Ffilm%2Fmacarthur.jpg&hash=f66d1b2794bcde5dffa56f5d7280e9a5adfbf10c)

You mean "horribly dressed"?

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 15, 2009, 05:23:59 PM
Can you show me a picture of any other head of State bowing to the Japanese emperor?  I think not

True to form, eh?

Sweden (she's crown princess Victoria, by the way... )

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_-dk1Rm5IzIo%2FRlMN9PlCZeI%2FAAAAAAAACUg%2FWEgz61Z1j2M%2Fs320%2Fimage0.jpg&hash=a683af55924c11de8032a40562afe2f5ee5c05ba)

From http://sueciasucesos.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html

Actually it's quite difficult to find pictures of such salutations, with or without bowing or handshaking.

Emperor Akihito bowing himself to gentlemen elder than him

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache1.asset-cache.net%2Fxc%2F53154244.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26amp%3Bc%3DIWSAsset%26amp%3Bk%3D2%26amp%3Bd%3D77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD3D6E8E24F8AD364C6313EFD8CEAE3796CE1EA08772E55C547497451F39BA9143&hash=8e68d3146977eea204f43b67cbbefafc2b508059)

http://www.life.com/image/53154244

And the emperors bowing during a ceremony commemorating Kobe earthquake

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F40729000%2Fjpg%2F_40729175_emp-ap-300x220.jpg&hash=debe6779904f82e040afd8ad2fa7f5d1a8934967)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/4180689.stm

By the way, it seems even in Japan the handshake plus bowing is not entirely unknown... of course, wearing an exoskeleton must make keeping proper etiquette quite difficult!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.boston.com%2Funiversal%2Fsite_graphics%2Fblogs%2Fbigpicture%2Frobots_03_04%2Fr04_17028085.jpg&hash=3b911b5cc26b6cc6887172c9d125006892cbdc77)

Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 02:40:50 AM

Quote from: Neil on November 15, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
Here's how a real American leader looks when he meets the Emperor of Japan:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw00.middlebury.edu%2FID085A%2Fgallery%2Ffilm%2Fmacarthur.jpg&hash=f66d1b2794bcde5dffa56f5d7280e9a5adfbf10c)

You mean "horribly dressed"?

By the way, searching Internet shows that apparently that one is the only picture in existence of the Macarthur-Hirohito meeting... at least several variations like 'Macarthur Hirohito', 'Macarthur emperor', 'Macarthur Tokyo', etc, etc... don't find any other, while this one appears once and again.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.boston.com%2Funiversal%2Fsite_graphics%2Fblogs%2Fbigpicture%2Frobots_03_04%2Fr04_17028085.jpg&hash=3b911b5cc26b6cc6887172c9d125006892cbdc77)
[/quote]

Is that the King of Spain?

Quote from: Fireblade on November 16, 2009, 03:45:08 AM
Is that the King of Spain?

Looks like it.

Obama's bow would have been lower than the robot's

Yes, he is King Juan Carlos. I tried to find a picture of him and Akihito, bur the only two I found were the 'king + gundam prototype' one and this

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache1.asset-cache.net%2Fxc%2F83627517.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26amp%3Bc%3DIWSAsset%26amp%3Bk%3D2%26amp%3Bd%3D77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548B48418CECDA5CA707AFDB6394509B86805EB647B50789C6CE30A760B0D811297&hash=28f6846dc947875f8e3811cbfdcaf052207302a3)

From http://www.life.com/image/83627517

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
15 degree bow!  Yi wins! Yi wins! :yeah:

Most of the controversy on the internet however seems to be idicoy about Obama bowing in the first place, not his bowing so low- here I stand by it is just due to the height difference, the distance between them and Obama generally messing up.

People in Japan bow.

Wooptydoo.

What amazes me is that one can discuss a messed up bow by Obama for 7 pages long...

We probably had 7 pages on Obama's messed up bowling.

Obama = failure

I suppose this is just more evidence that Obama is going to sign our country over to the NWO.

Quote from: BVN on November 16, 2009, 08:29:36 AM
What amazes me is that one can discuss a messed up bow by Obama for 7 pages long...

For the second freaking time.

Quote from: Alatriste on November 16, 2009, 04:19:25 AM
Yes, he is King Juan Carlos. I tried to find a picture of him and Akihito, bur the only two I found were the 'king + gundam prototype' one and this

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache1.asset-cache.net%2Fxc%2F83627517.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26amp%3Bc%3DIWSAsset%26amp%3Bk%3D2%26amp%3Bd%3D77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548B48418CECDA5CA707AFDB6394509B86805EB647B50789C6CE30A760B0D811297&hash=28f6846dc947875f8e3811cbfdcaf052207302a3)

From http://www.life.com/image/83627517

Hes not bowing. :P hes leaning forward to kiss her hand. Dolt!

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2009, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: BVN on November 16, 2009, 08:29:36 AM
What amazes me is that one can discuss a messed up bow by Obama for 7 pages long...

For the second freaking time.

You'd figure the idiot would learn after the first time, but you'd be wrong.

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 16, 2009, 11:42:19 PM

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2009, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: BVN on November 16, 2009, 08:29:36 AM
What amazes me is that one can discuss a messed up bow by Obama for 7 pages long...

For the second freaking time.

You'd figure the idiot would learn after the first time, but you'd be wrong.

Watch how you speak of your president, Hans.

And I don't see any issue with this. Its etiquette. Just because he is the president of the USA doesn't mean he is supposed to strut into the room and demand the emperor kiss his feet.

Quote from: Jaron on November 16, 2009, 11:43:23 PM

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 16, 2009, 11:42:19 PM

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2009, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: BVN on November 16, 2009, 08:29:36 AM
What amazes me is that one can discuss a messed up bow by Obama for 7 pages long...

For the second freaking time.

You'd figure the idiot would learn after the first time, but you'd be wrong.

Watch how you speak of your president, Hans.

And I don't see any issue with this. Its etiquette. Just because he is the president of the USA doesn't mean he is supposed to strut into the room and demand the emperor kiss his feet.

It's not etiquette, dumbass.  From the Japanese Book of Manners:

QuoteWe can say that to only lower your head is not so good for a Japanese bow. You will give the impression that your bow falls short. There are also the cases of somebody bowing their head repeatedly. In doing this, one might think you are paying the deepest respect and consideration, are being polite, etc., but the sentiment which should be expressed in the Japanese bow fails to be expressed doing this. When bowing while standing, their is the "highest respectful bow" (saikeirei), which is executed from a position of standing straight upward, and then bending 45-degrees or more. "Respectful bow" is at 30-to-40 degrees, and everyday "eshaku" around 15-degrees.

"Saikeirei" is not seen on a regular basis, but is used in order to offer an apology, or when one is extremely grateful for something received, as well as performed before the altar of Shinto shrines and Bhuddist temples. In case of a handshake, straighten the back, and by all means one must look directly into the face (eyes) of the recipient of one's handshake. It is not to be too strong and not too light. Too strong will reflect an insult and too weak will not reflect good will. In America, such a weak handshake is called a "dead fish handshake", with the feeling being that the person wielding a dead fish. And, shaking a hand while performing a bow will be seen as subservient ("servile", "supple", "mean"), and is not to be done.

*flips Hans off*

Another blunder: Obama forgets which country's flag is his, stands at wrong podium.  :rolleyes:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv66%2FEricDerKonig%2Ftradingplaces.png&hash=c68c44e5e6bde0e655b9f2211bc1b8019d1488e0)

Obamas hair looks like pubes

Apparently an administration official defended thw bow as "enhancing both the position and status of the U.S. relative to Japan."  :lmfao:

Quote from: Jaron on November 16, 2009, 11:41:40 PM
Hes not bowing. :P hes leaning forward to kiss her hand. Dolt!

What part of 'Yes, he is King Juan Carlos. I tried to find a picture of him and Akihito, bur the only two I found were the 'king + gundam prototype' one and this' did you miss?

Of course he's only leaning forward. That's the reason I didn't post that picture along with Princess Victoria's...

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 16, 2009, 11:42:19 PM
You'd figure the idiot would learn after the first time, but you'd be wrong.

You'd think the idiots who are freaking out about it would learn after no one cared the first time.

This thread kinda seems like the political version of

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Espeedyturkey%2Fnothitit.jpg&hash=9f7a958f049d31a3ac03f66e1b936389d72bdf42)

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on November 17, 2009, 01:36:07 AM
Another blunder: Obama forgets which country's flag is his, stands at wrong podium.  :rolleyes:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv66%2FEricDerKonig%2Ftradingplaces.png&hash=c68c44e5e6bde0e655b9f2211bc1b8019d1488e0)

OMFG! A US PRESIDENT STANDING TO THE RIGHT OF ANOTHER COUNTRY'S LEADER! OBAMAHITLER IS TRYING TO MAkE AMERICA JAPANS SIDEkICk!!

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 17, 2009, 09:41:33 AM
This thread kinda seems like the political version of

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Espeedyturkey%2Fnothitit.jpg&hash=9f7a958f049d31a3ac03f66e1b936389d72bdf42)

That dude looks like Rainn Wilson with a few extra pounds.

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 15, 2009, 10:29:07 PM
This is how ABC news Japan expert put it:

Quote"Obama's handshake/forward lurch was so jarring and inappropriate it recalls Bush's back-rub of Merkel.

"Kyodo News is running his appropriate and reciprocated nod and shake with the Empress, certainly to show the president as dignified, and not in the form of a first year English teacher trying to impress with Karate Kid-level knowledge of Japanese customs.

"The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms....The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.

Of course he is not just playing the part of a weak President.  :lol:

Sadly, we seem to have another bow-gate for the Obama administration.   :(

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 17, 2009, 09:41:33 AM
This thread kinda seems like the political version of

Not really.  I don't think there are too many people who think that Obama is a step up from Bush.

Quote from: Neil on November 17, 2009, 10:52:07 AM
Not really.  I don't think there are too many people who think that Obama is a step up from Bush.

He is; the issue is which step?  At the very least, he doesn't look like a chimpanzee who'll fling poo at the camera at any moment. :P

That bow was nothing compared to the one he did for the daughter-in-law-elect.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 17, 2009, 11:25:43 AM
At the very least, he doesn't look like a chimpanzee who'll fling poo at the camera at any moment. :P

Not really.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 17, 2009, 11:25:43 AM
He is; the issue is which step?  At the very least, he doesn't look like a chimpanzee who'll fling poo at the camera at any moment. :P

To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

Quote from: Maximus on November 17, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

I never said it was a big step or an important one. :contract:

Quote from: Maximus on November 17, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

I don't know there should be some minimum threshold. After all, he (one day she) becomes the face of America.

Obama bowed... America is cowed....    :(

Bullshit.  He is clearly taller.

the whining and bitching about this bow has made the newspapers here... well done everyone :)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.ibdcd.com%2Fimage%2Ftoon_111609_FULL.jpg&hash=dee0a6c6dbcca9c56bb10f8b7c98108694478acd)

Stupid.

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 18, 2009, 12:46:31 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.ibdcd.com%2Fimage%2Ftoon_111609_FULL.jpg&hash=dee0a6c6dbcca9c56bb10f8b7c98108694478acd)

I get it! Obama hates America, because....

Strange.

I understand that you need to get the protocol right, but really, isn't it BFD material?  Are Japanese now going to think "Hey, he acknowledged we're superior.  Prepare the invasion force at once." 

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2009, 04:42:05 PM
Stupid.

Agreed.  I'm not too thrilled with his cartoon either.

Quote from: DGuller on November 18, 2009, 05:14:32 PM
I understand that you need to get the protocol right, but really, isn't it BFD material?  Are Japanese now going to think "Hey, he acknowledged we're superior.  Prepare the invasion force at once."

No one will die directly as a result of this bow, if that's what you mean.

It's one tiny note in the long and complex coda on arrogance/submission, unilateralism/multilateralism, patriotic pride/ranting nationalism.

Quote from: Faeelin on November 18, 2009, 04:42:34 PM
I get it! Obama hates America, because....

Rev. Wright told him to!  :yeah:

I bet Hans was in stitches over that one. :rolleyes:

Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2009, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: Maximus on November 17, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

I don't know there should be some minimum threshold. After all, he (one day she) becomes the face of America.

Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM
Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

We live in the 21st century. :mellow:

Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2009, 11:51:00 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM
Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

We live in the 21st century. :mellow:

"It's the 21st century" is as much an excuse for superficiality as "it was the 18th century" is an excuse for slavery.

Okay, Martinus.

Marnitrus?

Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2009, 11:51:00 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM
Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

We live in the 21st century. :mellow:

What does that have to do with anything? Intelligence and competence have no relationship to physical appearance.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 19, 2009, 03:18:26 AM

Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2009, 11:51:00 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM
Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

We live in the 21st century. :mellow:

What does that have to do with anything? Intelligence and competence have no relationship to physical appearance.

Physical appearance has everything to do with securing the votes of homosexuals and women, two groups who really should never have had the vote to begin with.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2009, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: Maximus on November 17, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

I don't know there should be some minimum threshold. After all, he (one day she) becomes the face of America.

Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

1. He was savagely attacked in the press for looking like a gorilla and it was a serious political liability.  Fortunately Lincoln was a political genius.

2. It was the 19th century so you only ever saw a drawing or photo of him from time to time.  In the TV era appearance counts for even more than it did in the 19th.

3. Was he really that ugly?  I mean it is not like Obama is Johnny Dep compared to him or anything.

Quote from: Neil on November 19, 2009, 07:43:23 AM
Physical appearance has everything to do with securing the votes of homosexuals and women, two groups who really should never have had the vote to begin with.

Homosexuals, white male landowning ones anyway, have always had the vote.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 19, 2009, 03:18:26 AM
What does that have to do with anything? Intelligence and competence have no relationship to physical appearance.

Because, people love a good show.  In this age of information, we don't want to be looking at a shrew. If Obama was butt ugly, hope and change would have stayed where it should have, in Illinois.

Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2009, 05:28:07 PM
Homosexuals, white male landowning ones anyway, have always had the vote.

What about gay Arabic linguists?  :D

Quote from: derspiess on November 18, 2009, 05:46:12 PM

Quote from: Faeelin on November 18, 2009, 04:42:34 PM
I get it! Obama hates America, because....

Rev. Wright told him to!  :yeah:

......

:lol:

Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2009, 05:27:31 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 18, 2009, 10:20:15 PM

Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2009, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: Maximus on November 17, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
To be honest, I don't really care about the physical attractiveness of the President either.

I don't know there should be some minimum threshold. After all, he (one day she) becomes the face of America.

Lincoln was our greatest president and our ugliest.

3. Was he really that ugly?  I mean it is not like Obama is Johnny Dep compared to him or anything.

I suppose that's a matter a taste, however we do have a photos for most presidents and state portraits for all of them. So take a look and decide for yourself.

Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2009, 05:28:07 PM

Quote from: Neil on November 19, 2009, 07:43:23 AM
Physical appearance has everything to do with securing the votes of homosexuals and women, two groups who really should never have had the vote to begin with.

Homosexuals, white male landowning ones anyway, have always had the vote.

You can't strip felons of the vote?

Well, at least his forehead didn't hit the ground this time :lol:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20091118%2Fi%2Fr3100408959.jpg&hash=2477117e97ee1bb98045ddffaa6885a4fe4cef0c)


Seriously though, Obama may think that groveling to the world makes him more popular, but all he's doing is diminishing his office and the nation he serves.  Not that I think he's particularly bothered by the latter, mind you.

Quote from: derspiess on November 25, 2009, 12:07:10 AMSeriously though, Obama may think that groveling to the world makes him more popular, but all he's doing is diminishing his office and the nation he serves.  Not that I think he's particularly bothered by the latter, mind you.

Seriously?

You seriously think that showing a bit of cultural awareness and courtesy counts as grovelling and diminishes the nation?

Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2009, 05:27:31 PM
3. Was he really that ugly?  I mean it is not like Obama is Johnny Dep compared to him or anything.

Yeah I've always thought Lincoln was what Victorians would consider distinguished.  On the other hand Teddy Roosevelt looked like a beaver and the less said about butter bath Taft the better.

Edit:  Other non-lookers include John Adams:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F17%2FAdamstrumbull.jpg&hash=746f9209999a8a6de1539e2c003f01280d4142ac)
James Monroe:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/James_Monroe_Portrait.jpg
And Grover Cleveland:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Grover_Cleveland%2C_painting_by_Anders_Zorn.jpg

I'm sure there are others.  Lincoln's not that bad.

Quote from: Jacob on November 25, 2009, 12:18:36 AM
Seriously?

You seriously think that showing a bit of cultural awareness and courtesy counts as grovelling and diminishes the nation?

Americans are weird like that.  They've this huge obsession with maintaining 'face'.

Thanks for the gross generalization there shelf <_<

Quote from: katmai on November 25, 2009, 12:27:07 AM
Thanks for the gross generalization there shelf <_<

It was a joke on common stereotypes and similar generalisations about the Far East.  Like, say, the Japanese :blush:

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 25, 2009, 12:25:46 AM

Quote from: Jacob on November 25, 2009, 12:18:36 AM
Seriously?

You seriously think that showing a bit of cultural awareness and courtesy counts as grovelling and diminishes the nation?

Americans are weird like that.  They've this huge obsession with maintaining 'face'.

Shame-based culture, and all that.

Wait until Her Majesty's Diamond Jubilee.  Obama's going to be culturally aware and headbutt her in the face like a Liverpool hooligan.
ZOMG OBAMA HATES TEH US

Wow, what an asshole/weakling Obama is for being polite  :mad:


:blink:

Did Sheila just insult my home state boy Taft?  :mad:

Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2009, 08:00:30 AM
Wow, what an asshole/weakling Obama is for being polite  :mad:


:blink:

We have a reputation to live up to.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadeinhead.org%2Fanism%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F04%2Ftry_and_stop_us.jpg&hash=b825b6a6287edf4033f23854ee306317ce8aa49f)

Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2009, 08:00:30 AM
Wow, what an asshole/weakling Obama is for being polite  :mad:


:blink:

What a bastard Ju is for not being polite back.  :mad:

(That is Ju isn't it?  The ChiCom short term presidency is sheer genius but it makes it absolutely impossible to tell them apart.)

Hu's on first.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 08:41:49 AM
(That is Ju isn't it?  The ChiCom short term presidency is sheer genius but it makes it absolutely impossible to tell them apart.)

Yes, it is Ju.  Ju Ca Nou.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 08:41:49 AM
What a bastard Ju is for not being polite back.  :mad:

Obama displayed his deference towards the PRC, and Ju accepted it.  He was being polite.

I know Yuro PMs bow when they meet their own monarchs because I saw The Queen, but what do Yuro monarchs do when they meet each other?

Quote from: derspiess on November 19, 2009, 05:52:59 PM

Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2009, 05:28:07 PM
Homosexuals, white male landowning ones anyway, have always had the vote.

What about gay Arabic linguists?  :D

Being the greatest Americans evah, I think they should exclusively weild the vote.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
I know Yuro PMs bow when they meet their own monarchs because I saw The Queen, but what do Yuro monarchs do when they meet each other?

Have sex to make new monarchs, of course.

Quote from: Jacob on November 25, 2009, 12:18:36 AM
Seriously?

Ja.

Quote
You seriously think that showing a bit of cultural awareness and courtesy counts as grovelling and diminishes the nation?

You're acting as if this occurred in a vaccum.  If it were *only* this I might leave Obama alone. 

But his tendency to go apologize to the world whenever he travels gives some context to his habit of bowing to certain foreign leaders (all non-white, interestingly enough).

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
I know Yuro PMs bow when they meet their own monarchs because I saw The Queen, but what do Yuro monarchs do when they meet each other?

We haven't had a monarch in some time, but here is Wilhelm II.

That's Kaiser Wilhelm II meeting the Ottoman Sultan. At best a small nod, not a real bow.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stahlgewitter.com%2Fjpg_17%2Fkaiser_wilhelm_konstantinopel1.jpg&hash=f7a057b210490b116353f1ea3df4838008b5ec21)

Wilhelm II meeting the Moroc Sultan.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lsg.musin.de%2Fgeschichte%2Fkaiserreich%2FDeutsches%2520Reich%2FMarokko-wII.jpg&hash=849aec31805660be4c1ff64ff9f82584578b7832)

I very much doubt that the self-conception of the German Emperors included bowing to anyone.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
I know Yuro PMs bow when they meet their own monarchs because I saw The Queen, but what do Yuro monarchs do when they meet each other?

Belly barging.

This is still controversial?  :rolleyes: 

EDIT: Actually why was it ever a controversy in the first place?

Ahh yes, conservatives grasping at straws to undermine the president by any means.




G.

It's just as well that the Kaiser didn't do deep bows, that spiked helmet could do serious damage if he had........and Edward VII's gut was a large target too  :P

Quote from: derspiess on November 25, 2009, 12:07:10 AM
Seriously though, Obama may think that groveling to the world makes him more popular, but all he's doing is diminishing his office and the nation he serves.  Not that I think he's particularly bothered by the latter, mind you.

Do you understand what the word "groveling" means?  What is servile about any of this?

Quote from: Zanza on November 25, 2009, 11:48:37 AM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 25, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
I know Yuro PMs bow when they meet their own monarchs because I saw The Queen, but what do Yuro monarchs do when they meet each other?

We haven't had a monarch in some time, but here is Wilhelm II.

That's Kaiser Wilhelm II meeting the Ottoman Sultan. At best a small nod, not a real bow.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stahlgewitter.com%2Fjpg_17%2Fkaiser_wilhelm_konstantinopel1.jpg&hash=f7a057b210490b116353f1ea3df4838008b5ec21)

Is the Sultan saluting him, or doing a facepalm? 

Given some of the things I've heard about Willy, it could reasonably be the latter.  :)

Quote from: PDH on November 25, 2009, 12:29:46 PM

Quote from: derspiess on November 25, 2009, 12:07:10 AM
Seriously though, Obama may think that groveling to the world makes him more popular, but all he's doing is diminishing his office and the nation he serves.  Not that I think he's particularly bothered by the latter, mind you.

Do you understand what the word "groveling" means?  What is servile about any of this?

See my more recent post.  It doesn't begin or end with his bowing.

Truly Obama is an inspiration to us all. -_-

http://www.newsweek.com/id/223821

Quote
George F. Will
The First 'Pacific President'?

Inflation is not only a monetary matter.
Published Nov 21, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Nov 30, 2009

Barack Obama's irresistible, or at least unresisted, propensity for self-aggrandizement bubbled up yet again during his recent trip to the Far East when he proclaimed himself "America's first Pacific president." Hearing this, Asians may have muttered about inscrutable Occidentals. Obama's exercise in rhetorical grandiosity, while hardly his first, was exquisitely meaningless. (Click here to follow George F. Will).

Yes, Obama lived for 14 years in Hawaii, which is in the Pacific. But two presidents (Ronald Reagan, and before him Richard Nixon, who in 1972 ended the freeze in U.S.-China relations that began in 1949) came from California, which is on the Pacific. So, is the world-historic difference in the preposition?

Yes, Obama lived four years, until the age of 10, in Indonesia. But two young men who were to become America's 35th and 41st presidents also had formative experiences in the Pacific: John Kennedy's PT-109 was sunk beneath him, and George Herbert Walker Bush, a future envoy to China, had his Grumman Avenger shot down. And before becoming America's 27th president, William Howard Taft governed the Philippines for about as many years as child Obama lived in Indonesia.

In May 1900, America's 25th president, William McKinley, sent U.S. troops to China to help put down the Boxer Rebellion. America's 33rd president, Harry Truman, waged serious war in Asia—in Korea, where Americans suffered 157,530 casualties, including 54,246 fatalities. Dwight Eisenhower vowed, during the 1952 campaign, "I shall go to Korea," which Americans correctly heard as a vow to end the war one way or another. In December of that year the president-elect did something no serving president had ever done: He set foot on the far side of the Pacific. America's 38th president, Gerald Ford, was the first to visit Japan while in office. (President Ulysses S. Grant visited Japan after leaving office, and is said to have been the first person to shake the emperor's hand. America's First Pacific President bowed.)

President Taft's predecessor, Theodore Roosevelt, sort of earned—imagine that—his Nobel Peace Prize for helping to mediate the end of the Russo-Japanese War in 1905. (The mediation occurred in Portsmouth, N.H.; TR did not attend.) In October 1908, the "Great White Fleet" that TR sent around the world as an act of national exuberance arrived in Japan, where U.S. officers were housed in the emperor's palace.

In order to encourage Japan, then an almost hermetically sealed society, to play nicely with others, in March 1852 America's 13th president, Millard Fillmore, ordered Commodore Matthew Perry to go to Tokyo with the U.S. Navy's East India Squadron, which had first been dispatched across the Pacific in 1835 by America's seventh president, Andrew Jackson. Perry's 1853 visit to Tokyo Bay was not persuasive, so he returned in 1854—by then his commander in chief was America's 14th president, Franklin Pierce—with a larger fleet. The spectacle of what the Japanese called the "black ships" moved them to sign a treaty of "permanent" friendship, which became impermanent at 7:49 a.m., Dec. 7, 1941.

The first U.S. treaty with China was signed in 1844 under the 10th president, John Tyler. Pacific waves have lapped the republic's shores since California attained statehood in September 1850. The 11th president, James Polk, had wrested California from Mexico, and the 12th president, Zachary Taylor, died before statehood came under Fillmore.

All this—indeed, all of the human story—was but prologue to today's culmination in a president who, in his 10th month in office, flew across the Pacific for seven days in Asia, thereby becoming "America's first Pacific president." Such rhetorical inflation devalues the currency of words with which we think. Not everywhere, though. Listeners to Garrison Keillor's A Prairie Home Companion know that one of the businesses in Lake Wobegon, Minn., is Ralph's Pretty Good Grocery. ("If you can't get it at Ralph's, you can probably get along without it.") In an age of pandemic hyperbole, the store's name is a refreshing zephyr of modesty.

Come 2012, America's First Pacific President—self-proclaimed "citizen of the world," whose advent marked, he said, "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal"—will be seeking reelection. Someone running against him might find that this resonates with a public suffering greatness fatigue: "Vote for me and get a pretty good president."

Yeah, Obama is an ass.

Yeah, conservatards are butt-hurt.

I really don't like George Will.  There's something in the way he writes.