Let the foaming at the mouth commence :menace:
QuoteGrants Get Ayn Rand's Ideas Covered in Kentucky Classrooms
Elizabeth Kramer
November 11, 2009, 8:00 am
The late philosopher Ayn Rand advocated abolishing all forms of government intervention in the economy. And lately, she's been in the spotlight — with reported sales spikes of her 1957 novel Atlas Shrugged and two new books out about her. But even before markets tumbled last October, the study of Rand had been getting attention from some Kentucky universities. WFPL's Elizabeth Kramer reports.
One of Ayn Rand's biggest fans recently spoke at the University of Louisville's College of Business. BB&T bank chairman John Allison talked about philosophy and leadership. And he had this to say the writer.
"Ayn Rand is a modern philosopher. And I think her ideas are very powerful," Allison says. "And I strongly recommend that people should read Atlas Shrugged. And I think it's very relevant to what's going on today."
Allison's visit came a year after the college announced it would receive a $1 million grant from the BB&T Charitable Foundation to offer a course and other events focused on capitalism and including Rand's philosophy. It also went to purchase copies of Rand's opus — Atlas Shrugged — for 44 students.
This semester, Professor Stephen Gohmann is teaching a new course called Capitalism and Economic Freedom.
"So, today we're going to cover Rand," he tells today's class. "And one of the big parts of that first chapter we had to read was this moral meaning of capitalism."
Students here don't deal with numbers. They study philosophies — like those conceived by 17th century philosopher Thomas Hobbes; Adam Smith, whose Wealth of Nations was published in 1776; and, of course, Rand, who asserted that real freedom can exist only under capitalism.
Today, the students discuss Atlas Shrugged and Rand's philosophy of objectivism. Both celebrate people guided by reason and who adhere to what Rand describes as a moral obligation to pursue self interest.
Her ideas resonate with some students. Others, like Zachary Bartsch, find her ideas fuzzy, especially when she calls capitalism a moral system.
"Rand valued individualism, hard work and property rights as a morality," he says, "whereas if somebody else values community and family and togetherness, communism might be a more moral choice for them."
Gohmann asked the dean of the college of business about applying for the BB&T grant because of his own interest in Rand's ideas. While, Rand is part of the class Gohmann's created, so are works by Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx.
"In this class, I'm not trying to give any political point of view," Gohmann says. "We're just trying to look through different writings. I just think it's interesting because when you do look at these extreme cases then students start thinking more about where we might really want to be or where they might really want to be."
U of L isn't the only school to receive such a grant. Since 2005, BB&T has given about $6 million to some 60 schools to endow teaching positions and require including Rand's ideas in courses — sometimes in economics; other times in philosophy. The schools include Duke University, University of Texas at Austin and Kentucky's Murray State University. It received $1 million this year and now offers economics and communications courses that include Rand.
Some critics say these grants are part of an ideological campaign that undermines academic freedom. In 2006, North Carolina's Meredith College turned down BB&T money after some faculty objected.
Philip Altbach is a professor at Boston College who has written about higher education issues worldwide. He doesn't support strings attached philanthropy.
"If the Ku Klux Klan wanted to endow a chair in race studies, there would be, needless to say, a lot of objections raised," he says.
But Jennifer Burns doesn't see a problem with the BB&T funding. She's an assistant professor of history at the University of Virginia and author of the new book Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right.
Burns says today people see Rand's influence in the work of business executives and policymakers, including former Federal Reserve Board chairman Alan Greenspan. It naturally follows her ideas would be covered in the classroom.
"A whole host of conservative and libertarian and capitalist ideas are being included in curricula that weren't before," Burns says. "And students have become more sensitized to politics in the classroom and more interested in hearing a broad range of perspectives."
Meanwhile, Philip Altbach says philanthropy that stipulates including specific ideas in curricula is likely limited, because it constitutes very little of university funding. However, other critics say they fear a rise in strings attached funding on college campuses.
What is it with Kentucky and philosophy?
So... what's the issue? :unsure:
I learned about all flavors of socialism & communism in my Comparitive Economic Systems class. Not to mention all the Diversity we had crammed down our throats.
A little Rand will hurt no one :)
I learned about Rand in high school English. I've said on here before that I think her books are worthy of inclusion in like an American lit class or perhaps a philosophy class. I also don't get the constant Languish criticism that they're boring or badly written. I could hardly put The Fountainhead down. The major issue I see with her writing is that she tends to like absurdly long monologues in which people deliver unrealistic dialogue... but she's hardly the only writer with this shortcoming.
A lot of people I knew read them as we wanted to apply for the scholarships.
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2009, 01:00:02 PM
I learned about all flavors of socialism & communism in my Comparitive Economic Systems class. Not to mention all the Diversity we had crammed down our throats.
A little Rand will hurt no one :)
Only those dumb enough to believe it and they deserve it.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
yeah it doesn't seem like they doing a soundbite version of Rand like Fox news. It helps to actually read the stuff that you will later denounce as crap, imho... that's one reason to study writers like Rand.
Easy "A". Bullshit in, bullshit out.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
Speaking of which, I got exposed to an awful lot of Keynesianism in addition to that other stuff <_<
Really though, in terms of my college education I probably got more out of learning about ideas opposing my own than anything else.
Quote from: Caliga on November 11, 2009, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2009, 12:42:22 PM
So... what's the issue? :unsure:
OMG OBJECTIVISM DEV0L
Surely learning about an idea is nothing to worry about.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
Well the UT Austin language department teaches a course on Tolkein's made up Elven language. I bet those kid's parents were delighted to see that on their bill.
Quote from: Caliga on November 11, 2009, 01:04:15 PM
I learned about Rand in high school English. I've said on here before that I think her books are worthy of inclusion in like an American lit class or perhaps a philosophy class. I also don't get the constant Languish criticism that they're boring or badly written. I could hardly put The Fountainhead down. The major issue I see with her writing is that she tends to like absurdly long monologues in which people deliver unrealistic dialogue... but she's hardly the only writer with this shortcoming.
:yes: There are certainly enough authors in the American literary canon who've been guilty of this.
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Well the UT Austin language department teaches a course on Tolkein's made up Elven language. I bet those kid's parents were delighted to see that on their bill.
Taxpayers ought to be pissed, as well. On the other hand, if this were the only example of waste & stupidity at universities, we'd all be better off.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2009, 02:38:54 PM
Speaking of which, I got exposed to an awful lot of Keynesianism in addition to that other stuff <_<
:huh:
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
Well the UT Austin language department teaches a course on Tolkein's made up Elven language. I bet those kid's parents were delighted to see that on their bill.
:lol:
Didn't see that one in the course catalog...
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
Well the UT Austin language department teaches a course on Tolkein's made up Elven language. I bet those kid's parents were delighted to see that on their bill.
You know, I'd be pissed if my goddaughter took a course like that. Pissed off like Sauron.
Quote from: Fate on November 11, 2009, 04:12:42 PM
:lol:
Didn't see that one in the course catalog...
Well they might not be offering it this semester but they did when my ex-fiancee was at UT.
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
If private universities want to sell out and teach junk philosophy that is their prerogative.
EDIT: actually the class as described seems pretty unobjectionable.
Well the UT Austin language department teaches a course on Tolkein's made up Elven language. I bet those kid's parents were delighted to see that on their bill.
Tolkien was a genuine linguist, so researching his made-up language might be a valuable thing. a whole course seems more than a trifle excessive though.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2009, 01:00:02 PM
A little Rand will hurt no one :)
Of course not. Unfortunately, a lot of Rand wound up hurting everyone.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Of course not. Unfortunately, a lot of Rand wound up hurting everyone.
When did that happen?
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2009, 10:23:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Of course not. Unfortunately, a lot of Rand wound up hurting everyone.
When did that happen?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjustgetthere.us%2Fblog%2Fuploads%2Fgreenspan.jpeg&hash=9f8248c8e12471c91a71cb5c88bcdd206df85b63)
Quote from: Caliga on November 11, 2009, 01:04:15 PM
I learned about Rand in high school English. I've said on here before that I think her books are worthy of inclusion in like an American lit class or perhaps a philosophy class. I also don't get the constant Languish criticism that they're boring or badly written. I could hardly put The Fountainhead down. The major issue I see with her writing is that she tends to like absurdly long monologues in which people deliver unrealistic dialogue... but she's hardly the only writer with this shortcoming.
The fact that rand is not absolutely dreadful in every possible way, rather than just being dreadful in terms of character development, dialogue, and plotting, is not a reason to read her books.
Being no worse than some other authors doesn't make an author good.
As I've stated numerous times before on Languish, I think her books are interesting and worthy of consideration if only because she presents a surprisingly different viewpoint from almost everything else a typical high schooler might encounter.
I'm sure you will agree that one of the main goals of our educational system should be the broadening of one's horizons. :)
I'd love to teach Rand to a Danish high school class. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
As I've stated numerous times before on Languish, I think her books are interesting and worthy of consideration if only because she presents a surprisingly different viewpoint from almost everything else a typical high schooler might encounter.
I'm sure you will agree that one of the main goals of our educational system should be the broadening of one's horizons. :)
What I disagree with is your apparent belief that reading Rand's books is the best way to study her viewpoint. I disagree. Given the limited number of books that students will get a chance to read in high school, making one of Rand's books one of them seems to me to be foolish - it would prevent students from being exposed to another, more worthy author (whose ideas
and writing are of interest).
I'm sure you will agree that one of the main goals of our educational system should be to be the presentation of emulation-worthy subjects that broaden one's horizons. :)
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
As I've stated numerous times before on Languish, I think her books are interesting and worthy of consideration if only because she presents a surprisingly different viewpoint from almost everything else a typical high schooler might encounter.
I'm sure you will agree that one of the main goals of our educational system should be the broadening of one's horizons. :)
That sounds quite reasonable. What about Mao's Red Book, for example? And that Austrian's book... now what was his name, Sicklegruber or something like that? :P
Everyone calls what the books he likes do 'broadening one's horizons'. But the things the books we hate do... now they deserve other names, like 'poisoning one's mind'.
For the record, I have only read 'The Fountainhead'. I hated it, by the way... (and I agree with Grumbler, too)
I actually read Mein Kampf in high school as well, and have no problem recommending others do so. It plainly illustrates Hitler's insanity and is a good way IMO to prevent Nazism from being attractive to future generatons. :cool:
I'm sure you will both say the exact same thing about The Fountainhead. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 09:56:21 AM
I actually read Mein Kampf in high school as well, and have no problem recommending others do so. It plainly illustrates Hitler's insanity and is a good way IMO to prevent Nazism from being attractive to future generatons. :cool:
Mein Kampf, along with the Satanic bible was standard reading fare for the freaks and losers at my high school. You know, the kids in the denim jackets that sat in the back and smelled funny.
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 09:56:21 AM
I actually read Mein Kampf in high school as well, and have no problem recommending others do so. It plainly illustrates Hitler's insanity and is a good way IMO to prevent Nazism from being attractive to future generatons. :cool:
I cannot imagine a teacher assigning
Mein Kampf as one of the two dozen or so books the student will typically be assigned in a high school career. You got gypped out of reading something equally portentous but which also would teach you something about writing. A small sample of
Mein Kampf is plenty to reach one how NOT to write.
I tried reading Mein Kampf once, in translation of course. I even have a really cool pre-ww2 copy of it - maybe its even worth some cash, I dunno - but I found it terribly tedious.
Maybe it was better in the original German. I was hoping for some entertaining *All Jews Must Die!!!* ranting, and what I got was - emo whining. :(
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 10:53:34 AM
I cannot imagine a teacher assigning Mein Kampf as one of the two dozen or so books the student will typically be assigned in a high school career. You got gypped out of reading something equally portentous but which also would teach you something about writing. A small sample of Mein Kampf is plenty to reach one how NOT to write.
It wasn't assigned reading for me, but it was strongly recommended by my US History 2 teacher for precisely those reasons. It helped to understand just how far off the deep end Hitler actually was, and it also worked as a great example of what to avoid in writing. Even ghost-edited, the writing is still incredibly crappy.
I ended up reading it along with
Im Westen Nichts Neues (
All Quiet on the Western Front- not being a Deutschophile, but a copy in the original German was given to me for free :P)
So why are we talking about high school?
Quote from: derspiess on November 12, 2009, 11:05:49 AM
So why are we talking about high school?
because we are bored.
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 10:53:34 AM
I cannot imagine a teacher assigning Mein Kampf as one of the two dozen or so books the student will typically be assigned in a high school career. You got gypped out of reading something equally portentous but which also would teach you something about writing. A small sample of Mein Kampf is plenty to reach one how NOT to write.
:huh: I had to read alot more than two dozen books. The inclusion of Mein Kampf causes (or caused... dunno if it still happens) periodic controversy since my district is at least 50% Jewish.
Quote from: derspiess on November 12, 2009, 11:05:49 AM
So why are we talking about high school?
Big Homecoming dance is coming up.
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 11:17:42 AM
:huh: I had to read alot more than two dozen books.
:huh: Understand, but most people don't spend 3 years as a sophomore, and so spent fewer years in High School than you did.
QuoteThe inclusion of Mein Kampf causes (or caused... dunno if it still happens) periodic controversy since my district is at least 50% Jewish.
Dunno why this is relevant. The book is crap writing and mostly useless for historical analysis even when read by non-Jews. Your loss was the opportunity loss of not reading something both more relevant and more enlightening.
Is it me or is it really important to grumbler that people don't read Mein Kampf? Hmm.
Quote from: Malthus on November 11, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
Tolkien was a genuine linguist, so researching his made-up language might be a valuable thing. a whole course seems more than a trifle excessive though.
Obviously the point was a linguistic exercise but it also had the advantage of making the department money by attracting lots of Tolkein nerds who normally would never touch a linguistics class.
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 11, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
Tolkien was a genuine linguist, so researching his made-up language might be a valuable thing. a whole course seems more than a trifle excessive though.
Obviously the point was a linguistic exercise but it also had the advantage of making the department money by attracting lots of Tolkein nerds who normally would never touch a linguistics class.
What would really be worrying is if the end of term project was to translate
Mein Kampf into Elvish. :D
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 12:41:26 PM
:huh: Understand, but most people don't spend 3 years as a sophomore, and so spent fewer years in High School than you did.
Point in fact I only spent three years in high school altogether. :cool:
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2009, 12:46:45 PM
Is it me or is it really important to grumbler that people don't read Mein Kampf? Hmm.
Methinks he doth protest too much.
Quote from: Malthus on November 12, 2009, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 11, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
Tolkien was a genuine linguist, so researching his made-up language might be a valuable thing. a whole course seems more than a trifle excessive though.
Obviously the point was a linguistic exercise but it also had the advantage of making the department money by attracting lots of Tolkein nerds who normally would never touch a linguistics class.
What would really be worrying is if the end of term project was to translate Mein Kampf into Elvish. :D
:lol:
Quote from: Malthus on November 12, 2009, 01:28:49 PM
[What would really be worrying is if the end of term project was to translate Mein Kampf into Elvish. :D
Hmmmm...people are fascinated by Nazis and elves...what we need is Nazi elves! I think you have a winner here.
Well I guess ninja pirate Nazi elves.
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 09:56:21 AM
I'm sure you will both say the exact same thing about The Fountainhead. :lol:
Roark should have got the electric chair. :menace:
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
Hmmmm...people are fascinated by Nazis and elves...what we need is Nazi elves! I think you have a winner here.
Nazi elves is a great idea. I'ma make a d20 setting with Nazi elves and Roman centurions riding around on Harley road hogs throwing pila. :cool:
Quote from: Vince on November 12, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
Roark should have got the electric chair. :menace:
Well, at the very least he should have been imprisoned for raping Dominique. That was a very disturbing scene btw and an effective window into Rand's skewed vision of the world.
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2009, 12:46:45 PM
Is it me or is it really important to grumbler that people don't read Mein Kampf? Hmm.
My efforts didn't have the legs I expected them to when I wrote them down. They are just an embarrassment now.
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
Well, at the very least he should have been imprisoned for raping Dominique. That was a very disturbing scene btw and an effective window into Rand's skewed vision of the world.
It wasn't rape, according to Rand.
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
Hmmmm...people are fascinated by Nazis and elves...what we need is Nazi elves! I think you have a winner here.
Well I guess ninja pirate Nazi elves.
Vampire pirate ninja Nazi elves. Sucking and sacking before the dawn of time.
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
It wasn't rape, according to Rand.
That is sort of my point. -_-
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
It wasn't rape, according to Rand.
That is sort of my point. -_-
Yeah, I never got that either---And yeah, I read it in high school too. Any religion that condones rape has to be evil. Also, how do the Kentucky creationists react to this atheist infiltration, I wonder? :shifty:
I would be shocked if that crowd has ever even heard of Rand/Objectivism.
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
Hmmmm...people are fascinated by Nazis and elves...what we need is Nazi elves! I think you have a winner here.
In some fantasy settings, elves' attitudes towards non-elves are downright Hitleresque, so they're not *that* far away.
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 12, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
It wasn't rape, according to Rand.
That is sort of my point. -_-
So your point was that at the very least, he should have been imprisoned for having consensual sex with Dominique? :huh:
Whatevah.
Unless I am recalling this scene incorrectly, he started off by raping her and then she started to actually enjoy it. As I understand it, this is a very uncommon (or maybe even unheard-of) outcome to rape in reality.
Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2009, 08:21:06 AM
Unless I am recalling this scene incorrectly, he started off by raping her and then she started to actually enjoy it. As I understand it, this is a very uncommon (or maybe even unheard-of) outcome to rape in reality.
You are recalling it incorrectly. She wanted him to take her by force. There was nothing non-consensual about this sex, as Rand has confirmed.
Reality, of course, has nothing whatever to do with Rand novels (and perhaps even her "non-fiction," though that is a matter of debate).
Dunno how it can be your point that this was not rape, and that it is also your point that it "started off" as rape.
I personally think this is a metaphor for Rand's idea of how man treats nature, and why such putative "rape" is actually good, because nature wants to be "raped" (for chaste nature has no purpose). But that is beside the point that Rand has confirmed that this wasn't rape (and Dominique's later claims and thoughts that it was were lies and self-delusion).
Quote from: The Larch on November 13, 2009, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 12, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
Hmmmm...people are fascinated by Nazis and elves...what we need is Nazi elves! I think you have a winner here.
In some fantasy settings, elves' attitudes towards non-elves are downright Hitleresque, so they're not *that* far away.
all elves, hobbits, kender and other annoying races should be liquidated.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 10:06:21 AM
all elves, hobbits, kender and other annoying races should be liquidated.
Isn't this German for children?
*Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream!*
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 10:22:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 10:06:21 AM
all elves, hobbits, kender and other annoying races should be liquidated.
Isn't this German for children?
*Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream!*
D&D thing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 10:28:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 10:22:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2009, 10:06:21 AM
all elves, hobbits, kender and other annoying races should be liquidated.
Isn't this German for children?
*Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream!*
D&D thing.
Dragon lance only.
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 09:35:10 AM
I personally think this is a metaphor for Rand's idea of how man treats nature, and why such putative "rape" is actually good, because nature wants to be "raped" (for chaste nature has no purpose). But that is beside the point that Rand has confirmed that this wasn't rape (and Dominique's later claims and thoughts that it was were lies and self-delusion).
Ok, thank you for clarifying this... I didn't know Rand had made these comments about the scene.
Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2009, 06:57:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2009, 09:35:10 AM
I personally think this is a metaphor for Rand's idea of how man treats nature, and why such putative "rape" is actually good, because nature wants to be "raped" (for chaste nature has no purpose). But that is beside the point that Rand has confirmed that this wasn't rape (and Dominique's later claims and thoughts that it was were lies and self-delusion).
Ok, thank you for clarifying this... I didn't know Rand had made these comments about the scene.
Yeah. Agree that it shows Rand's bizarre view of "what women want" but also think that one has to be careful about how one view her "protagonists." They are almost never flawed in the way a reader would think them flawed, which is another reason not to assign her books to a high school (or any other) reading class.
Except maybe a college course on dysfunctional characters written by writers with a disdain for actual human motivations. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on November 12, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
As I've stated numerous times before on Languish, I think her books are interesting and worthy of consideration if only because she presents a surprisingly different viewpoint from almost everything else a typical high schooler might encounter.
But that's not the point of an English lesson. Perhaps you could assign it in a course on social studies, with 'The Ragged Trouser Philanthropists' as counter-point, but not in English.
I'm terribly Victorian about the purpose of English in schools - a real latter-day Matthew Arnold. But I believe that the goal of English lessons is to set a flame that'll burn for a lifetime. For the kids who are interested it's to provide them with what will be a life-long hinterland and love of our literary heritage. Aside from that it's to teach people about the methods of communication and some appreciation of literature - I think they should learn meter and so on. English is one of those courses which I think really depends on the teacher, but everyone I know who had one good English teacher - no matter what they now do - have at least one book, one poet or even one poem that they really love that that teacher helped them understand. That's what English is for, not to learn viewpoints. If it was about different viewpoints I imagine we would have cut Milton from the curriculum by now :p
That's a good point. When I was in school, we did not have philosophy classes, so English ended up being kind of a dumping ground for everything that couldn't easily be categorized elsewhere. English lessons in the sense of "grammar lessons" stopped by the time I got to 9th grade. The final years of high school English were bascially just literature courses.